thecitythesky

* In all fairness, I don't think this is necessarily the case. As long as the title continues to be treated with respect and treated as something that everyone in the company strives to capture (or as the most important belt in North America, whichever you prefer) the two short-ish reigns won't really matter. If you look at the Triple Crown from 89-mid 92 (chosen because for the birth of the respective titles) there were plenty of short reigns, some incredibly so. Or even after Misawa's 2+ year reign (to bring it about to a more similar situation) there still were short reigns that didn't devalue the belt(s). It was all contingent on how the title, its challengers, and their subsequent challenges were portrayed to the audience. And I think that this will be the case with the ROH title. That so long as Gibson and his challengers are strong and everyone's gunning for him nothing bad will happen. EDIT: For the sake of clarification. I do think there's no excuse to not have Gibson put someone over on his way out.

for more details: c/p from DVDVR who c/p from iwamidsouthwrestling.com "After much thought and consideration, we have decided with what direction the company is going in, that Saturday December 17th in Midlothian, Illinois could become the last IWA M/S show! We are piling up large amounts of debt with what seems like no end in sight. We do hope with a successful 2005 TPI tournament that maybe this could be the start of turning something around. Also at this time we are announcing to our fans that the Philly show for Sept. 3 has been cancelled, due to our inability to book talent to make this card strong enough to feel we can draw in this market. Also to let fans asking about the Japan trip, it is officially off. Many of you (along with many of the deathmatch wrestlers) have expressed their feelings on there being another King of the Deathmatch Tournament. If we can find a building we would like to make this possible in October or November. And with the past success of the deathmatch tournament, along with several other things we plan on doing to try to save the company, maybe we can get by this but I wouldn't count on it. We will be decreasing our amount of shows in an effort to try to give more promotion time to each town. One of the things that I will be doing to help raise the money for the advertising of our events is auctioning off some of my personal memorabilia that I have gotten thru my 16 years of being in the wrestling business. Plus we will be doing DVD sales, tape sales, etc........so maybe with all these things combined we can save this thing. We realize we have come close to this before and announced similar things, but this time we really don't know if we can turn things around. I know alot of people will start its the mismanagement of the company , etc......but wrestling is down in all markets. No one is drawing like they were a year ago. I know there will be posts about other groups drawing 500- 600 , and all I can say is thats easy to do when you can put out thousands for ads. I'm not complaining, I wish I could do the same, but we are a small family company. Thanks for all your support over the past almost 9 years. Ian"

The problem I have with the bulk of this thread is that, somehow, you are exempting hip-hop from the regression in which you've avoided any claim to refute your own. Namely, that something like Endtroducing... is merely expanding on the foundations laid before it. Now, while it seems obvious that there exists a timeline between DJ Shadow's collage work on the record and the infant stages of electronic music; the means of delivery were dramatically different in the presence of emerging technology and the medium/idiom was being explored and delivered in a wholly different way. You acknowledge that hip-hop has its basis in funk/disco/r&b/what-have-you, but claim actual unique innovation due to a small change in presentation. The earliest incarnations of hip-hop saw it as party music, dance music, wherein the MC's cadance and "flow" were not as recognized or invested in as they are in these modern times. I think if you are to place the weight of regression on other genre's you cannot simply let hip-hop off the hook because it fits with the thread starting statement. Also, the greatest turning points in the timeline of hip-hop are due to an influx of tonal or textural cues from other genres. Glitchier production on recent underground releases taken from lap-pop and idm producers. A return to down-tempo and old jazz releases from a world still recovering from the sample-mania of the aforementioned Endtroducing.... Non-linear lyrical delivery from post-modern/slam poetry. Gangsta rap as a direct extension of the punk rock ideal into inner city black american culture. In the cases were hip-hop has shined the brightest it was in the presence and with the acknowledgment of its inability (or of any genre's for that matter) to exist as a unique and prevaling entity in its own right. No man is an island, so to speak; and these great things that seem to come out of nowhere are merely the work of exceptional craftsmen standing on the shoulders of giants. (note: that, in spite of not being originary; hip-hop certainly qualifies as an innovation. but, by that same token, so do a few of the things lists that were/or would be otherwise dismissed.)

* What problems would Jarrett have with coming pretty close to getting kicked in the face.?

* speaking of jake promos: my favorite promo ever is jake's before the dibiase match @ WM 6.

I need to see this. * To further take this nonsense off topic. Dream Theater released a live album on 09.11.01 and it was a live in NYC. The cover art was a shot of the planet Earth engulfed in flames; with the New York skyline sticking out of it (if that makes any sense). The album was recalled the same day, all things considered. And, working in a record store at the time, Dream Theater fanboys were buying the record en masse, in order to get it before the whole shipment was sent back. And I think that's kind of fucked up. To be concerned with the inevitable collectibility of such things given the circumstance.

* You should make up your mind. Either you're positing that INDY WRESTLING as a whole is better than WWE, in which case, you're misguided (as you so readily admit). Or you're saying that the TOP FEDS are better than WWE in their high end output (which also bothers me. Since ROH, as a whole, isn't terribly consistant, or even good, while their best matches (which do occur more frequently than WWE's high end stuff) clearly outclass the stuff Vince is putting out); in which case, I don't think that anyone's going to violently disagree with you. However, you keep flipping back and forth from arguing one side or the other. In one case you, as you admit, can't possibly stand by what you're saying (you know, like the thread title). And on the other, you're saying something that few would even see the need to discuss.

I'm not denying that the majority of Indy Wrestlers aren't as talented as WWE guys, this argument is about why Indy Wrestling is better, and I told you why. Indy wrestlers care about their matches way more than WWE guys do, and that makes them try harder, which makes the product better. * But really, all you're doing is mentioning why the cream of the cream of the crop is better than the WWE. In reality, 98% of indy wrestlers are absolutely outclassed by anything on television in the WWE. Now, to say that the best of the best of the best, and that folks who could legitimately be positioned as 4 of the top 25-30 in the world right now as a reason why indy wrestling as a whole is better than the WWE product is honestly ignorant. You're essentially naming exceptions in an effort to prove the rule. To say that ROH puts on a better in-ring product than Vince does is foolish; you're going to find very little disagreement. However, to use the stars of the stars as a basis for why the indies, as a whole, are better than the WWE (which they certainly are not... go to a random show at some legion hall sometime - instead of buying massively pimped tapes) is assinine. EDIT: Oh, and most indy guys are lifetime "weekend warriors" so the last thing they care about is having a classic (or even good) match. All they want to do is live some wrestler fantasy and have a good time, have fun, and get paid.

* every now and then when i get bored. i head on over to ichiban and (re)read the the history of the fued. now, i understand that the particular "best of..." tape is not going to give me everything i need to a) understand and b) enjoy the feud/matches. which brings me to.... i know that it's imperative that i begin with the Tenryu/Choshu's Army stuff. but basically i'm looking for a list of show/matches that i can dig for/go to Lynch with leading up to both the Jumbo/Misawa matches, the 6-man tags, regular tags all the bases for the Super Generation Army stuff so that i may get the most possible out of it all. any help would be greatly appreciated. i'm finishing the first half of my sprint to graduate from college so i've got this huge summer reading list and this is kind of the same thing but .. . you know. .. with wrestling.

* it was unforgiven '99. and take out the undertaker, replace him w/ big show and add foley.

* wow a match so bad i forgot it existed so quickly shocking.

* there's a mick foley v. kane one and hunter was the 6th guy.

* So... just so I'm not confused. What you're saying is that you'd just assume take the word of an author working from the standpoint of a known bias who is reporting based soley on anonymous information that is, at best, once removed from the actual situation over a report derived from statements of someone who was actually involved in what happened.? And beyond that, the ROH release explicitly stated well-wishes to both Jim and his family, which is certainly not commonplace for past releases they've put out regarding their situations with other individuals. I'm just curious as to the reasoning that you'd have for distrusting Johnson's report in favor of the DOI one. Even assuming that both sides are operating through a filter of bias, what it really comes down to is the proximity of those cited to the truth of the situation and their credibility with respect to the incident. And it blows my mind that you'd favor the DOI report for nothing more than that reason.

homicide's statesment: taken from: DVDVR taken from: DOI's interview thing* "This is the last time you will hear or see me mentioning that jabroni's name again. Dan Maff is done in the wrestling business. Finished. Maff blackballed himself. I did not blackball Maff. Promoters had to pick me or him, and all the promoters picked me because of what Maff did. There is only one side of the story and Maff fucked up and that is why he is done and no one is using him. Maff fucked with my family and fucked with my personal life. Maff is a pedophile. I hope fans can understand this. This shit is personal. This is my life. Maff screwed Maff and blackball himself because of what he did. No promoter want to use him because of what he did. Maff is done with wrestling. I want everyone to know that I hate Dan Maff and I don't respect him. He's a piece of shit. This is my personal life and the last time ever I will mention this guys name again. This is done just like Maff's career. I know fans want to know the whole story but this is very personal and that's all I can say. I know fans want to hear that whole interview, but it's better off not being up there because it's real life. Maff is done." *as a supplement for editing the portions out of the audio interview concerning the incident/situation.

* that was a hot hot opening 5 minutes on both parts. granted i'm biased as fuck. i'm 5 blocks off of the UWM campus... and it's a mad house in my building.

* i have no real qualms with HHH making the comment about Batista being able to beat both JBL and Cena in the same match or at the same time. considering that had Batista made the jump to smackdown after the rumble he would've he to have done just that. since he was facing a triple threat match that would've involved both men. you know... in the same match at the same time. and HHH was merely saying that Batista was foolish for not making the jump, since that task would've been something that he could do. as opposed to beating Hunter, which he can't do. in a way, he was pretty much saying that Batista has made his bed and now has to sleep in it.

* i was seriously hoping that at some point Team Angle would make a face turn just to that i could buy one of those warm-up suits. but alas...

* i think you're missing the actual point as to what makes TNA not and indy fed. they have their workers signed to contracts. that alone is the necessary and sufficient condition to draw the line between the two. so using that as your metric, AJ Styles is not an indy wrestler.

* i believe it's partially because the matches bombed at house shows. but i could be wrong... anyone with more WO knowledge feel free to tell me i'm ignorant.

* feedback.? it's interesting stuff. the only feedback i'd like to offer is: maybe have things come out quicker or bigger. you know. keep with the porn aesthetic.

* i for one would think it would make a humorous finish to a women's "first blood" match.

A female demon supposed to descend upon and have sexual intercourse with a man while he sleeps??? * the more appropriate word to use would've been "incubus". but even then... it's still about sex. i'm just terribly amused that he linked to the definition without apparently reading it. EDIT: in·cu·bus: Pronunciation Key (nky-bs, ng-) n. pl. in·cu·bus·es or in·cu·bi (-b) 1. An evil spirit supposed to descend upon and have sexual intercourse with women as they sleep. 2. A nightmare. 3. An oppressive or nightmarish burden.

* it's probably due to converting from NTSC to PAL.

* Yes there is. And it's made of money.

* it's in jm29195's avatar.