Dark Age

Keller had a really shit idea about London and Chavo.

Hopefully: To SD: Eugene, William Regal, Tajiri, Hurricane, Val Venis, Rob Conway, Garrison Cade, Tyson Tomko To Raw: Charlie Haas, Hardcore Holly, Matt Morgan, Billy Kidman, Rene Dupree, Kenzo Suzuki, Scotty, Shannon Moore BIG CHANGES~!

Somebody tell me what's so special about Trips. This isn't no blind HHHate. I don't like the Undertaker, but I can recognise when he has a good match. Triple H is solid. Pretty good at best. He can have good matches, with good wrestlers. He's put in some very good performances. But he's hardly great. I have a hard time calling him good. All of his "classics" tend to be overrated as Hell. Austin at NWO01? Good match, but ***** MOTY? No fuckin' way. I'm being kind here. There are some people who shit all over that match. Shawn Michaels on Raw 12/03? Pretty good, but the classic everyone pimped it as? Not. Even. Close. There are MAYBE two Trips matches I would consider great. Jericho LMS at FL00, and Cactus at RR00 (and, again, I'm being kind. Some people HATE this match). He is NOT a great wrestler. Rock was better than him. Austin was better than him. Taker CAN be better than him. Angle, despite the current backlash against him, was, and still is, better than him. Benoit, Jericho, Eddie, Rey... they are all better than Triple H. BY FAR. Coffey, once again I ask, WHY is Triple H one of the best wrestlers on Raw? What makes him so special? He's got a bad moveset, he's a decent seller/bumper, his timing is hardly great, he's got pretty much no in-ring charisma, he uses all the shortcuts in the book. Trips' shortcoming is the fact that he BELIEVES he's a great wrestler when, honestly, he isn't. Like, last year, he was trying to book himself in a classic with Benoit. It failed. Vengeance sucked, really hard, and the iron man match was all Benoit bumping. Benoit dragged better stuff out of Orton and Kane. On Raw, Angle, Jericho, Shawn, Tajiri, Regal and Venis were/are all better than him. At the moment, Shelton, Conway and Big Show are all out-working him. HE ISN'T A GREAT WRESTLER, and as soon as people realise this, we would all be better off. Is he bad? No, not really. Is he perfectly ok? Yeah, sure. Great? Nope, sorry. Angle-Plex, like I said, Val Venis is never on Raw, and when he is he's getting squashed, so you don't get the opportunity to see him have a good match. If you watch Heat, you'll have seen him face Orton in two of the best matches of his (Orton's) short career. The tag match that I mentioned is one of the best WWE tags of the past few years. He had a damn solid run with GARRISON CADE last year, and I'd venture to say that very few others could get so much out of Cade. Zyn, you're nuts if you think Triple H was better than Rock and Austin.

Already a thread on this, but there's no chance of Morgan being fired in the middle of his current push. The other three I can see, but I'd say are doubtful. Shannon, Scotty, Nunzio and Snitsky are my bets, if anyone.

Oh I understand that. My frustration is with the company for never really giving him that chance. If releasing him meant a nice push in TNA or something, though, that would be fine with me.

Maybe you're not seeing it, but I am. I went through this with you in the other thread, but I'll skim through it again. Basically, Val does better with what he's given than Trips does, a point which Tekcop made recently, and he probably explained it better than I did. I don't think Trips has has a match better than good this year, and I'm not sure he's had a good match at all that wasn't with Chris Benoit, though I maybe forgetting some (haven't seen HIAC yet). Val, somehow, managed to carry Chris Masters to a really fun, very heated four minute match on Raw. Keep in mind that WWE fans have NO REASON whatsoever to care about Val Venis, yet in the space of a few minutes, against a guy who isn't very good, and has been getting shit on for months, Val made them care. He did a better job at putting Masters over in those four minutes than Triple H has done with Batista in 20 minute PPV world title matches. Last year, Val, despite being treated like shit, managed to have a much better catalogue of bouts than Hunter did. He took Orton to two damn good matches on Heat, which absolutely kill any Triple H/Orton match. Hell, they were better than ANY Triple H match in 04, the Shelton Benjamin match being the possible exception. So, look at that. Val Venis had twelve minute matches with Randy Orton that were better than any 30 minute+ match that Trips had with wrestlers like Chris Benoit, Shawn Michaels, etc. There is also the Lance Storm and Val Venis vs. Dudleyz match that I pimp so much, which is as good as anything Trips has done in years. Val Venis has a better moveset than Triple h. He is a better bumper. He's a better seller. He has better timing. He has better facial expressions. He is as good as him on the mic. He's more charismatic. He has better matches. That's why Val Venis is better than Triple H. I'll say what I said last time - we don't see Val Venis as the better wrestler because, really, we don't see Val at all. He's rarely on Raw, and when he is, he's usually getting squashed in minutes. How can he prove he's better when that's all he's given?

See, I did that once before with you, remember, when I told you why Val Venis could have been as big as Triple H, or some other such lunacy? And I completely and utterly destroyed your argument? And then you just ignored it? Yeah, that's kinda what happened. I have no desire to get in another argument with you again because, frankly, you don't do anything. I told you why, numerous times, and all you replied with was "well, we'll have to disagree" or something. And, maybe it's just me, but it was you, not me, that started using the "smart ass comments" with: "of course, as usual, I'm sure you'll completely disagree, right?" after I asked you the SAME THING YOU'RE ASKING ME TO DO - explain why they should/shouldn't be fired. All you said was that they should be fired, without explanation. Don't you think it would be pretty boring if everyone agreed? I mean, if everyone agreed with people who are right, then yeah, that would be ok... Here's why they shouldn't be fired: Val Venis is a good wrestler, and is better than Triple H. Stevie Richards is a good jobber who makes all the new guys look good. There, you've got what you asked for.

Yeah, because me disagreeing with you isn't allowed, is it? I mean, shouldn't EVERYONE think that Steven Richards and Val Venis should be released by WWE?

Why do you want Val and Stevie fired?

Didn't we do this with Benoit last year? We'll do it with someone else next year, too.

What did they call Juvi?

I guess you missed Dames post, and my attmpts to end this stupidity. You are arguing over whether or not JBL enjoyed an ECW match. Think about that. You didn't understand my post, btw. Reading between the lines, you would see that I DO now "the business", a lot more than you, in fact, I was just saying how stupid it is of you to be throwing around such asinine statements like "you know so little about the business" and that, though I know a lot, I don't know nearly as much as others. Not you, though.

Booker T, Bulldog, Owen Hart, Razor Ramon, Lex Luger, Bossman, Scott Steiner, Vader, Faarooq, Patriot, Ken Shamrock WWE only.

I hate this topic, and I hate her.

This woman sounds like a bitch.

Indeed. Anyway, the DVD should have more extras.

Oh man. Don't talk to me about "knowing the business" you fucking tool. There's a lot I have to learn, and I'm not gonna make an insane claim that I DO know this "business", exactly, but I don't need YOU talking to me about it, you idiot. Where are you getting 99% from? Did you go out and conduct a survey or something? And the "it's my opinion" crap is so weak. Opinions can be WRONG, ya know?

You still lose. This confirms your thoughts. YOU think that JBL was mocking them, IN REAL LIFE. You even say so. If JBL had been instructed to "put ECW over", but didn't, that would be JBL, the "real" person, burying them, not the character. So there is no debate of whether it was in-character or not, you've already decided that it WASN'T in character. How do you know this? Really? And stop calling people marks. You have no idea.

You lose.

You kidding? JBL looked like he was really in to Tanaka/Awesome. That can only make them look better.

Yeah he did something to his knee at New Year's Revolution. And I meant "other" moves, btw.

And a Booker/Carlito feud is shit. Why do it? You either job Carlito out AGAIN, or make Book look like a loser AGAIN. Book and Show vs. Carlito and Morgan? No thanks. They should have saved Taker's return for GAB to team with Show, then start the Orton feud the following SD. Why is Holly/OJ on SD? I have no interest in it. What's Holly done to earn a title shot? Why not hae another MNM/Holly and Haas match? Or just do Haas/OJ, which would maybe have a chance at being ok.

Cena isn't dropping the WWE title, and he's not losing to Christian, at least not this soon. Winner of Trips/Batista goes to SD. I think Triple H, as it's unlikely he'd lose THREE PPV matches to the same guy, and SD needs their new top heel after losing Angle (Orton doesn't count). I like that they're continuing the Orton/Taker feud, but they have gone about it pretty shitty. It just so happens that Taker returns on the night Orton is drafted? Yeah, right. They need a slow build now, though. HIAC would be the perfect blowoff for this, but God knows that Trips/Batista needs it. Why waste Taker's first pinfall loss in more than 18(!) months on a SD main event with JBL? JBL will be no better or worse for this match, same as Taker. I think the Crazy/Psicosis tag won't air. Juvi debuting on Velocity sucks. I called Cade to SD, and I'm sticking to that after seeing him in the dark match. Best to team him with Jindrak again, and get another tag team, but Cade/Rhodes could be a fun team, actually. They shouldn't split the Bashams, or break uo the Cabinet. I don't have faith in them to push Doug or Danny as an individual, so it would be better to keep another tag team ih the ranks. It would be cool if, say, JBL got Jindrak/Cade to replace the Bashams, whothen want their jobs back, and then they feud, blah blah blah. Benoit/Doug could be way good, but I doubt it will go more than five. Benoit going over via rollup? Lame. Make him look strong, geez. London/Eddie pleases me. Even as a 3 minute squash I'd expect it to be better than most stuff. The fact that it is a squash sucks though. They could have made London look great here. London and Rey vs. Eddie and Chavo would rule. The aftermatch brawl seems decent. Establishing over finishers is great. I don't know what to make of the Heidenreich crap. Does Eugene go to SD and become friends with Heidi, leading to a feud with MNM? Yuck.

Oh I don't doubt that. But, they NEED a big face. Triple H knows that. The last time he didn't have the "superstar" to face off with was one of his worst periods of time in the company (his first "World" title run). He needs someone who WON'T upstage him, but can be seen as not far beneath him. I think even the E realises by now that Taker's days as "The Man" are over. They won't put Show in that position. That leaves Benoit, Book and Rey. They won't push Book, and there's no way they would run another Trips/Book feud. They will probably run another Benoit/Trips feud, but they won't see Benoit as the answer to their prayers. Rey is a funny one. He COULD, easily, be the biggest star on the show, because he's so unique, but Triple H won't put him over, I'm certain of that. Eddie's their man, but he'll need a face turn.

Look at it like this. SD has just lost a top heel, and their world title. The number one heel on Raw could be walking out of Vengeance as the new champ. Sending Trips to SD will, in their eyes, kill two birds with one stone. They have already replaced Cena with Benoit (Benoit isn't going to be the superstar babyface that Cena is, but he'll do a good job) so now Trips will replace Angle as the top heel, and Cena as the top champ. The only problem is that SD is going to be left without the "superstar babyface". Benoit, Booker, Rey, Taker and Show. I can't see SD pushing any of these guys as THE guy. Eddie would be the most logical choice, but he will need a face turn.