Dark Age

No you never. You just said it was the greatest match in North American history, as if it was fact. That's all. I don't know why you're arguing with me, and arguing the match's merits. I love it. It's a great match. I agree. But it really isn't the best match in North American wrestling history. It's a top 20 WWE match, but that's the only thing I'd give it at this minute (further viewings change opinions!). I know we're talking matches, not finishes. It's a great match. Just not the greatest. By all means, you can call it your favourite match, that's easy to accept. But calling it "the greatest match" is a mighty big title. You can't defend that with "it's my opinion". If I say Viscera Vs. Kane was the greatest match of all time IMO, does that make it so? No. Your Foley comments aren't needed. He was already really over. Did the match help? Yes, but he would have been fine without it. It made people take notice, sure, but he was getting noticed anyway. And Mankind jobbing to the SCM, which was what was presented to the crowd anyway (Shawn had it won with SCM) wouldn't have hurt Mick one bit. The DQ finish achieved NOTHING other than to rob the fans a finish to an otherwise great match.

I think there are rare occasions where a DQ can work, however, such as Eddie/JBL last year, and even Austin/Angle at SS01. They not only work, but they add to the experience, IMO, having been built to the entire match. Non-finishes in matches such as Taker/Shawn GZ97 also work, if you ask me. If the DQ serves a purpose, then it works. Shawn/Mankind was just a cop-out finish. A pinfall fit the story more than a DQ did.

He called Michaels/Mankind the "greatest match in North American history". That's different than calling it his favourite.

That's a terrible match list. Very disappointed.

Yeah, that was cool too.

No, you're wrong. Waltman is a "martial arts expert". Look at them kicks!

Best Worker Chris Benoit. I'd venture to say that Benoit's had a better half of 2005 than the whole of 2004. He's given some really smart performances this year. Carried Batista to his best (singles) match ever, had two good matches with Jericho on Raw, the AWESOME rapid fire match with Shelton, a decent match with Trips back in the run-up to Mania, a fantastic performace in the ladder match, a really good match with Edge on the Raw following Mania, a solid match with Christian, a pretty good LMS match with Edge, and took Trips to his MOTY in the goldrush tournament. His body of work has been good, but his individual performances have impressed me. The selling in "arm injury" match with Edge, and to a lesser extent, Christian, was great. The selling of the concussion against Triple H was great. He's been in (for me) 2 of the 3 best Raw matches this year (Vs. Edge, and Vs. Jericho (Submission)). Managed to keep himself really over on his ring-work alone, despite being treated pretty badly this year. Honourable mentions go to Shelton Benjamin, Kurt Angle and Eddie Guerrero. Shelton's been great since the "Money In The Bank" stuff started, up until the match with Shawn. The Shawn match was really good and maybe Raw MOTY. The triple threat following Mania was GREAT, but too quick. His Backlash match with Jericho was good as well, and, of course, he kicked ass in the Ladder match. Gave a good performance in his singles match with Edge. Wouldn't put him above Benoit simply due to the fact that his three good months aren't as valuable as Benoit's five. That's no fault of his own, as he's been stuck with slugs/on Heat the rest of the time, but, that's just the way it is. Angle's had, IMO, the best matches in the company. I think the Japan match with Rey is company MOTY, with the Championship Series match with Eddie not too far behind. Has had good matches with JBL and Marty Jannetty, some solid stuff with Book, a fun three-way at RR, and the WM match with Shawn, which was very good, but overrated. Eddie hasn't had the quality or quantity of matches that he had last year, mainly due to the fact that he hasn't been put in the position to, but he's still had a good year. The Angle match previously mentioned, as well as the really good, though disappointing bout with Rey at JD. Here more due to the fact that he's just been awesome since turning. Rey's been pretty good, too, as has London. Most Improved Very difficult one, as there is nobody who really stands out as "improved". Doug Basham and Rob Conway have both been good, but they have always been good. However, only now are they getting the chance to show it. Maybe you could say they have improved within the restrictions of "WWE Style". Mark Jindrak has been slightly better, too, putting in a great performance against Doug on Velocity, with some really good selling. I'm really finding this one difficult, so I'll leave it at that. Spot of the Year The ladder run is obvious, and my pick, but a few that will likely be forgotten: - Shelton's springboard bulldog on Jericho, Raw following Mania. That was just beautiful. - Edge's baseball slide to Benoit, same Raw. Absolutely sick landing by Benoit. I watched it over and over. - Eddie's brainbuster/suplex to Rey on the steps. Great stuff. - Eddie's headstand hammerlock, or whatever it was he did to Rey, first SD of the year. - Shelton springboarding in to the superkick. Biggest Disappointment Cena/JBL at Mania should have been a crazy, interference filled, bloody brawl. So I choose that. In a close second is the lack of push for the cruisers. I KNOW this could go on every year, but I held out the tiniest bit of hope that something good would go down when London won the belt. But it didn't. Most Fun to Watch/Best Match Angle/Rey and Angle/Eddie. Changes all the time, though. Some of the most FUN I had watching a match was the IC Title three-way following Mania, and I think that could have been a company MOTYC if it was longer. Angle/Eddie was great, with tons of little things that played off their past matches, like a repeat of the WM finish, with Angle kicking out this time, Angle pulling Eddie's tights in the same way Eddie pulled Angle's straps in their 2/3 Falls match, etc. Plus it was just some really good wrestling. Rey/Angle was one of the crispest, cleanest matches I've seen all year, though I don't remember much about it, other than loving it. I have it on tape, so perhaps another viewing is in order. Also loved Shawn/Shelton, Benoit/Edge, London/Akio (most of their matches), and Orton and Shawn/Edge and Christian. Oh, and the "Money In The Bank" ladder match. I also think that Trips/Edge from Japan was pretty good. Oh, almost forgot, JBL/Cena was pretty damn good (at JD that is). Funniest Moment As mentioned: "Tomko, gimme a beat!" "No." "Ok." I also liked JBL beating up the Godzilla thing in Japan. Best PPV Match for match, it's Mania, but I found myself enjoying Judgment Day more. JBL/Cena and Eddie/Rey were both very good, London/Chavo and Book/Angle were solid, and the tag title match was fun. Show/Carlito was fine for what it was. Mania, I think, had, overall, better matches, but I was still really disappointed. Taker/Orton was good, but could have been better, the ladder match was really good, but should have been longer, Eddie/Rey was decent but a huge letdown, and Angle/Shawn was pretty much what I thought it would be. The two world title matches were really disappointing. So, I'll go for Judgment Day.

For me, the Austin/Bret series (SS96 and WM97) are two of the three best matches in company history, with Rock/Austin (WM01) being the other. After that, I'm thinking Eddie/Brock (NWO04), Eddie/JBL (JD04), Bret/Hennig (KOTR93), Bret/Bulldog (IYH 5 95), Bret/Owen (WM94) and Piper/Bret (WM92). That's nine matches. Angle/Benoit MAY round out the ten, though it has some stiff competition. I'd put it about on par with Mankind/Michaels (MG96), Rock/Jericho (NM01) and maybe Austin/Angle (SS01). But I'd need to see all of those matches again to form a real solid opinion. So, yes, maybe it is a top ten match afterall, but I wouldn't call it the best. I agree with calling it both men's best match in the company. Angle/Austin (SS01) is closest for Angle, and maybe Rock/Benoit (FL00) for Chris.

Eddie/Brock was one of the matches I was referring to, the other being Eddie/JBL. I have a lot of love for Angle/Benoit, and think it gets some unfair criticism. It's one of the best "WWE Style" matches EVER, though I hate the term. It is, for me, MOTY for 2003, with Brock/Benoit and Angle/Taker it's biggest challengers, and maybe the Vengeance tag. Like I said, though, I think both Eddie/Brock and Eddie/JBL are better than it. Also, Curry, do you mean in the history of the WWE, or involving the wrestlers we are arguing, or what? 'Cos, despite my love for it, I think there's at least ten better matches. That I know of. That I can remember enough to give an opinion of.

He had a good match with Doug Basham recently. He still sucks, though.

I'm still looking for some examples. I've just given you a few of the best interviews of Eddie's life - all of which are better than ANY cut by Chavo, any by Hunter, a huge majority of Angle's, and quite a lot of Shawn's top stuff. Most, even. Funny, considering Eddie got really over in 2003. In fact, from June 2003 to his heel turn just recently, Eddie was the most over face in the company. I guess that counts for nothing, though. Eddie was more over as a face than Trips or Angle ever were, and as over as Shawn ever was. Right now, he's more over as a heel than Triple H has been since 2000. Don't call 2004 the best of Eddie's career when you obviously haven't even FOLLOWED the guy's career, otherwise you would know what you're talking about. I will say, though, that Eddie Guerrero in 2004 was better than any single year by Triple H, Shawn Michaels or Kurt Angle, and, in it, he had two matches better than ANY match ever involving Triple H or Kurt Angle. At least one of the two was better than anything Shawn has ever done. No criticism of those guys, btw. It may not seem it, but I LIKE Kurt Angle. In fact, I really like him, and think he's been getting a bit of unfair criticism on the 'net lately. But he isn't in any Eddie's league. I like Shawn Michaels (at times) and think he's underrated in certain parts. But, right now, he's not in Eddie's league (and it is arguable that he ever was). I don't care for Triple H, but will admit he's capable of a good match. However, he, at his best, isn't in the same league as Eddie at his worst. Actually, I agree. It's wrong of me to put Eddie in the same bracket as Shawn, Angle and Triple H, simply for the fact that Eddie is FAR better than all three. And... 2 years of overness? I guess the heel heat he could pre-2003 was just imaginary. I guess being one of the most hated heels in WCW just never happened. So talking shit, bro. No, the other is not Angle, it's Rey. And that isn't because Angle's run down by injuries, it's because Rey and Eddie are both better than Angle. Simple as that. I have no idea what your Austin, Flair and Michaels "past his prime" comments have to do with anything. They've never even BEEN on SD. Hunter... in a ***** match??? BWAHAHA. You're a joke. What little credibility you had left is now gone. What was that ***** match? The "classic" 3 stages of Hell match with Austin? The tag title switch? The "epic" brawl with Taker at WM? What a dolt. I agree, Eddie has never had a ***** match in his WWE career, but, erm, hate to break it to ya champ, nobody on the roster has. And I'll tell you what, last year, Eddie Guerrero had two matches closer to ***** than the company has seen in years. Your last Michaels comment makes no sense at all. In closing, stop posting.

Oh man, you're a fool. A damn fool. Nevermind that I told you NOT to name other examples of what Shawn (or the other two) can do, as I'm not interested in that. I was pointing out how silly your statement was in regards to Eddie (can only show "anger" or "goofiness"). Give me an example of Chavo being better than Eddie on the mic. Want an example of Eddie being better than, not only Chavo, but all three of the guys YOU listed? Ok. Eddie's two promos on Brock before NWO04. Both better than anything all the other three have done. How about his promo on Rey just recently? Smokes any Chavo interview. Was better than any Angle or Triple H interview. Heck, check out his promo the week after losing the belts to the Bashams in 03. DO NOT MAKE ME LAUGH! Chavo more charismatic than Eddie? What are you on? When has Chavo EVER shown more charisma than Eddie? When has TRIPLE H? Eddie, without a belt, yelling out to you "Velocity!" shows what a complete and utter tool you are. You don't even know the guy's name, for God's sake! Oh I will put Eddie in the elite category, simply for the fact that he's BETTER than EVERYONE in the company. I love Chris Jericho, but he is NOT, in any way, shape or form, better than Eddie Guerrero.

Nah, Dupree needs to get back with Grenier. No point leaving him on SD when he's absolutely dead there. Heidenreich was never part of the draft, so they will just pretend he was never on Raw.

Besides, I offered to do it about a year ago but none of the "important" people gave a crap. I didn't even get a "no"!

Even better for me!

This is true. Also, Bret/Taker from ONO is kinda essential.

Oh man, you're so wrong. Eddie's WAYYYYY better than Angle, Shawn or Hunter. What can Hunter do other than "angry"? What can Kurt do other than "intense" and "goofy"? What can Shawn do other than "cocky" and "cocky but not quite as cocky"? Don't reply listing other things they can do - I'm not interested. I'm just pointing out how stupid it is to say that Eddie is limited to "goofy" and "angry". Go read DEAN'S SD Comix, and learn how it's all in the eyes. Eddie > you. I'm going to stop now, and not even deal with the "not in the league of the other three" comment, because I'm just getting angry and goofy now.

Guys, let me review Velocity and/or Heat for the main site. It will work well. Heat and Velocity are on in a very suitable timeslot over here, which means I can watch every week, and, hence, do the reviews/recaps. Plus, I'm decent. Better than the 411, IP and PWT guys who do Heat/Velocity. I doubt you care about the main site anymore, though, which is sad.

Yeah, this is cool. Taker DVD could be good, if they stick to 96/97, most of all. Triple H's is less appealing, but should be OK, as long as they throw a load of 2000/01 Raw/SD matches on there. Ladder matches should be good. ECW DVD is kinda hit or miss, but it should do well. I can't believe they STILL haven't released a Rock or Austin 3 disc set, though. Or Bret. I NEED those three. Angle would be nice, too.

I dig, I dig, but for the chief of staff thing to work, they gotta keep OJ on SD, along with moving Venis over. Have Val begin a feud with Orlando (US title, afterall) and have some problems with JBL (am I the only one who'd LOVE to see Val Venis vs. JBL?). Soon enough, JBL sees that Val is pretty good, but also sees his "potential" in helping the Cabinet (he could reference his past with Eric Bisch). JBL could offer Val a spot in the Cabinet as the "Chief of Staff", which leads to Val "selling out" and joining. OJ becomes upset that Val is taking his spot, especially after taking his US title, and complains to JBL. JBL can say he's just using Val to groom OJ. You have an in-group feud with OJ and Val, with JBL trying to get them to team up. Eventually, OJ turns face and goes back to his roots. Maybe. It works, though. And, man, you can't fire Masters, he's cool. The entrance is top stuff, and his match with Richards the other week was fun. He sucks otherwise, but leave him be, sayeth I. I figure Taker, Angle and Trips all on Raw is political gold. They would cancel each other out. There's no need for Take to retire, until atleast the next Mania, when someone can end the streak. Just send him to Raw, keep him away from the title, and have him feud with Orton. I planned out the most awesome HIAC match between Taker and Orton, for reasons that will remain unknown. It would be the blowoff to their feud (third match) and Orton would go over, and, in doing so, end "deadman" Taker or zombie Taker. It would kick ass. It' would be like a horror movie, with Orton throwing EVERYTHING at Taker, thinking he's got the win, then BAM - Taker's there. It would require some great camera work. Like, Orton would kill Taker with the steps for a bit. He'd walk towards the door of the Cell, and there's Taker. It's also essential that Orton RKO's Taker into the ground, with the ring breaking. Everyone thinks Taker's dead, when out pops the hand, around Orton's throat. But then, another RKO, and Orton wins. Yeah, they have done similar stuff before, but this is better, because I did it. Plus, it's different. It's a definite **** MOTY. Trust me on that. Oh, and Taker can face Batista on Raw, too. And Benoit. I need to see him face Benoit. Benoit's cool on Raw. He needs to retire Angle, and beat him in his last match, after Kurt's put Shelton over. Then Benoit can feud with Shelton. Oh yeah, that rules. Benoit/JBL would probably kick ass, and other stuff, but he's fine on Raw. He needs to beat Batista or Edge for the world title, then he'll look good. He can stay on Raw. I'll allow it. I'd be OK with Doug going to Raw, because I love Doug. But the Bashams should stay together, atleast until some new tag teams arrive on the scene. Let them work, and there will be no need to split them up. Nah, Curry. I thought the same thing when Show used it at Armageddon. It's nothing, really. Plus, if Lesnar comes back, he should go to Raw and feud with Benoit. Or, they should let him on both shows so he can feud with Eddie on SD, and Benoit on Raw. But, I like the idea of Lesnar waltzing back in, thinking he's "saved" the company, looking down on it, etc, only for a group of veterans, led by Benoit, of course, taking exception, and making Brock "pay his dues" once again. It would lead to the money match of Benoit Vs. Lesnar. Yup. That's where the idea of "trades" come in. Have Christian complain that his problem solver isn't on SD with him, so he organises a trade. Or, have Christian fix the lottery. Or, even better, have Christian pulled out of the tumbler. He's all excited and stuff that he's going to SD, while Tomko stands, motionless. Backstage, a bunch of heels congratulate Christian, wishing him luck on SD, while Tomko refuses to speak. When pressed, he asks Christian if "that's it? We're finished? We're over? You're leaving me?" Christian says it's just business but Tomko says this is personal to him, and storms off crying. Later in the show, Christian's search for Tomko is over, when he finds him, sitting, tearful, in the boiler room. Tomko says he's realised he was wrong, and he wants to wish his friend all the luck in the world on SD. "Beat Cena. Beat him for both of us. I'm gonna miss you!". Christian says that's great and all but he "won't be going it alone. Pack your bags, baby, 'cos we're going to SmackDown!". Tomko gets a tear in his eye, before giving Christian a manly hug. "I love you man". Money. In. The. Bank. Tomko would get over, too. This would be perfect if Luther was still around, as Angle and Christian could sort it out between each other, so that their bodyguards go with them to their new show. JBL could turn face. He shouldn't, not yet anyway. But he could, easily. And, though he might go back to APA Bradshaw, it would be easy to come him in his current persona, and still get face heat. Yes, a good, stiff match it would be, but it isn't vital. JBL leading OJ, Conway, Val, Doug and Danny Basham is where it's at. Maybe Cade and Jindrak to. La Res should do their thing on Raw (Dupree and Conway, that is) while Tajiri should go kick some ass with Akio. Regal can stiff Holly up, and maybe become Shelton's partner when Haas turns on him. Oh, I'd like that. Regal and Shelton Vs. Angle and Haas. Then Regal Vs. Angle. Dude, no way. Booker and Angle should fight on SD Thursday, and that should be the end of it. Booker on Raw = SUCK. It's been done, it's in the past. Let it go. Book can feud with Eddie, Jericho and Shawn on SD. Angle doesn't need to be dragged down with this shitty feud when he moves to Raw. Raw can be a fresh start for him (again), and the Booker feud can be wiped from history. If Charlie goes to Raw, Hardcore goes with him. They don't have to team forever, but you need Hardcore meddling in Shelton and Charlie's business. Then everyone can kill him, but, still, he's required. MNM should beat Hardcore Haas on SD, maybe with Melina in a cage, as has been mentioned in a few places.

I'm behind on Raw, so I still don't understand how this thing works. It's being done over 4 weeks (8 shows). Does one wrestler switch on a show, or two, one for both brands? So, will four wrestlers be going to SD, and four to Raw, or eight to SD, and eight to Raw? Or different numbers? Because if it's four, that's pretty crappy. They need a BIG shakeup, and they need to move quite a few guys. Oh, and is it a lottery again, or do the GMs pick someone? I'd think lottery, but you never know with these guys. I would move: To Raw: Kurt Angle, Undertaker, Big Show, Charlie Haas, Hardcore Holly, Rene Dupree, Billy Kidman, Heidenreich, Kenzo Suzuki To SD!: Chris Jericho, Shawn Michaels, Christian, Tajiri, Hurricane, Garrison Cade, Tyson Tomko, Val Venis, Rob Conway That's nine switches. Hopefully, eight can be done in the actual draft, then one in a trade or whatever. Or, if it's less than eight in the lottery, just do a few trades. I wouldn't be opposed to Kane going to SD, and Scotty going to Raw (not in a sraight trade, obviously). REASONS~! To Raw: Kurt Angle - Here's the deal with these guys. They COULD still serve a purpose on their current shows IF the writers were any good, but they aren't, so it's better to just move the less "fresh" guys. Angle on Raw is good, as he's one of the few heels in the company who could, possibly, get over Triple H. He won't, but he stands a better chance than someone like Christian. Him being gone from SD also allows some new top line guys to be made. Make Raw the "veteran" show and let the new guys break out on SD. Kurt Angle and Edge as two of the top heels, with Triple H, and Orton coming back, eventually, could put Trips in some jeopardy, and take him out of some main events..... LOL~! Undertaker - Nothing for him on SD. Nothing for him on Raw, either, but, what are you going to do? He can continue the Orton feud when he (Orton) is back, and put him over. I'd prefer to see HIAC in *that* feud, rather than Trips/Batista. I guess he could work with Edge, too, but I don't think that's very appealing. Heel turn, long term, would be the best option, allowing him to work with Benoit and 'Tista. Oh, he can finally do the Angle match on Raw, too. Big Show - See Undertaker. I wouldn't mind seeing Show lead a revolt against Evolution, or something similar. He could feud with Flair, as long as they don't wrestle. I don't know what they could do with Show, to be honest. Charlie Haas - Really needs to move. He can team with Shelton, here, and then turn on him. Stick him in the IC division and all is well. Can keep his tag team with Holly going for a few months as well, as that's been surprisingly fun lately. Hardcore Holly - See Charlie. Have him get involved in the WGTT feud, if need be, just don't actually him, ya know, win anything or beat anyone. Make him a bitter vet who's delighted to be away from the "kids" on SD, only to find that the Raw faces dislike him disrespecting their co-workers. Then have Benoit beat the crap out of him. STIFFNESS~! Rene Dupree - His singles run has been a disaster. Can team with Grenier again on Raw, allowing the good one to get a nice singles push (Conway). Keeps a tag team in the ranks for that division. Billy Kidman - Does nothing on SD. Just doesn't feel like a cruiser anymore, so let him try the heavies on Raw. It's not like he'll really add to the CW division if they ever decide to push it anyway. Wouldn't mind a quickie feud with Benji. Wouldn't mind him in a new Evolution, led by Orton. Kenzo Suzuki - Meh. Have him pretend to be French so he can stay with Dupree, I don't care. Nothing on SD, though. Heidenreich - I don't like Snitsky, but I'm sure they'll do something together. I'm sure they'll have fun putting him with Eugene and Regal. If Scotty moves, he can team with Rosey and feud with Simon Dean. That would be a good Heat feud. To SD!: Chris Jericho - Just NEEDS to lose Triple H. Could really break out, once again, on SD, if positioned as the top heel (though he'll have to share that position with Eddie and Christian). An alliance between those three would be cool. Eddie and Jericho can be a part-time tag team, Christian can reunite Vitamin C, only this team, he's be the leader. There's just sooo many cool possibilities. Matches with Rey, Book, Cena andShawn (get his PPV win back). Should go to SD as a tweener, and he can have a few matches with Christian and Eddie, before he turns. Build to a match with Cena. Give him a run with the belt. Shawn Michaels - Seemed to be rumoured to jump, though I doubt they'd separate he and H. Tons on stuff for him on SD, particularly a feud with Eddie, which could own. Needs to be on a separate show to Angle, too, as there's no need for a rematch between those two. Christian - Obvious, and one I think definitley WILL jump. Don't know what there is for him, beyond Cena, though. I like the idea of Christian calling Cena out, only to have Cena ignore it, before Christian eventually gets his match. A small feud with Rey would be nice, and, I guess, he could feud with Shawn, too. Some interaction with both CCC and JBL would rule. Tajiri - I'm guessing Eugene's back soon? If so, Tajiri partnering Regal is no longer required. I say put him in the CW division for a few months, help it gain some cred, then move him up to the US division. Hurricane - Needs a move. I know he's a tag champ, but I don't care. I'm interested in Hurricane Vs. JBL for some strange reason. Back to the CW division for Helms, though greater prospects should await. Tyson Tomko - Christian. That simple. He needs to stay with Christian. Garrison Cade - Team him with Jindrak. Could see him getting involved with JBL's Cabinet, somehow. Do the HBCade thing, if you want. Rob Conway - See Dupree. US title feud with Val Venis looks super. Another to get involved with the Cabinet, if only because it would allow some interaction with the BASHAMS! OVW EXPLODAH~! Val Venis - JBL's new chief of staff? WORKS! Totally needs to move. Kane could move, just because I hate him on Raw. There, it's settled. All of these people must swtich shows. I'll bet about two do, though.

Absolutely fantastic. *Tears up pink slip* No firing for you, RRR.

You all seem to forget that OTHER wrestlers would go to SD with Christian, so he can feud with those guys, too. Christian, Jericho and Shawn all REALLY need the switch, top of the card alone. Maybe Kane, too, though I can't see him fitting on SD. Put him over Shawn, Book, Rey and Jericho (perhaps in a match that turns Jericho heel, and puts he and Christian back together) and he'll have cred. Christian, that is.

*SHOULD!* Jesus....

*SHOULD*