Dark Age

You seemed to find everything average Voice.

And speaking of which: Why DID Vince McMahon allign himself with Triple H? I mean, apart from the usual "blood is thicker than water" crap?

The problem with WWE is that they notice heels getting big face reactions, so they turn them. Fair enough. However, once they go face, WWE changes the character of said superstar. They no longer have the 'edge' that made the fans care about them so much in the first place. Cena seems to be an exception, but look at Matt Hardy. Big face reactions as a heel, turns face, loses his edge, crowd isn't that interested in him. Cena as a face would be GREAT..... if they let him keep his edge. Rock, when he turned face in 99, didn't lose it. He was still a heel in theory, but he was put in face situations. He still made fun of the crowd, yet they loved him for it. It's why he ept getting more and more over. Cena sucks up to the crowd, and it's, eventually, going to cost him. Hav ehim go heel, let him keep the reactions, just don't worry about it. Gradually, turn him face again, but don't change his character or his attitude. Use Rocky 99 as the prototype.

This thread IS about my feelings. You said it was for people to discuss Luther. I gave my opinion: He sucks. And when did I even mentioned Abyss or Brown? Considering you mentioned them in reply to my post, that indicates I have been pimping them. I have not. And Abyss is WAY better than Luther. Monty Brown isn't that good, but he's better than Luther. Really, Luther sucks. Wow, he performs a perfect butterfly suplex. PUSH THIS MAN TO THE MOON! His match with Cena on SmackDown! sucked. His match with Eddie sucked. Monty Brown (who has alot less experience than Luther) has had better matches with Ron Killings and Elix Skipper than any match Luther has had. Don't give your opinions on him when you've probably only seen a couple of matches. (Before you reply with the obvious, I've seen Luther in WWE, WCW and UPW. He sucked every time)

And the thread title is misleading too. Luther Reigns does in fact suck as much as I though he would.

Promoter, I understand what your saying. You're looking at it from WWE's point of view, and what you said is probably what they are thinking. I was just poiting out the faults in what they're thinking.

That Paul London site is now REALLY slow.

And who pulled the briefcase up in the ladder match between Austin and the McMahons? Don't say Bossman.

ABOBO vs Becca at SummerSlam

And what happened to the Paul Heyman/Taker feud? Where the hell is the urn?

You say yourself Orton is not ready. If he's not ready, DON'T PUT THE BELT ON HIM! The 'he's not quite ready bit' negates any argument for putting the belt on Orton. If you're not ready, you don't get the belt. Plain and simple. All of those guys you mentioned could challenge Benoit. Jericho vs Benoit would be better than Orton vs Jericho because you have all the past history of Jericho/Benoit. Play up their tag title reign, the history in WWE, WCW and Japan. Have them tease turning on each other, then blow it off with a MOTYC. You won't get that with Orton. Shawn vs Benoit, again, is better than Orton/Shawn. Orton vs Shawn is one of those matches that just doesn't seem to work, for whatever reason. Plus the feud won't be good ("Shawn Michaels, looks like I'm going to have to kill your legend....... AGAIN"). Benoit/Shawn however, can tease turns, have Shawn go heelish, play up the Bret history, etc. Again, MOTYC blows it off. Not with Orton. All of those guys work with Benoit as much as they would with Orton. Just play Benoit up as the fighting champion who defends against all comers. But that feud doesn't NEED the World Title. Orton vs Triple H and Evolution splitting up are big another stories by themselves. They don't need the title. All you need to do is have Orton get a shot at the title for a ppv. Triple H takes exception to Orton getting a shot and WHAM, you got yourself a feud. The belt would play second fiddle to 'who will side with who, who's gonna be the heel, who will they split' and it doesn't need that. Benoit wil get lost in the shuffle if he loses the belt, letting him run with it for a year would firmly establish him as a main eventer for good. Orton OR Triple H breaking Flair's record is a joke in itself. Neither guy should have the distinction of "best ever" that would come with holding the title that many times. Except that the Rock was super, mega over, unlike Orton now. Orton's face reactions don't even TOUCH Rocky's face reactions, while as a heel. Furthermore, Orton's HEEL reactions don't touch Rock'y heel reactions. Orton doesn't get near Rocky in any way at all. WWE can try all they want, but Orton is no Rock. You shouldn't change the World Title for 'Shock Value'. It degrades the belt. I wouldn't want that for any belt, but can atleast accept it for the cruiserweight or tag. World Title? No chance. Austin WAS going to win the belt at Final 4, but got injured during the match so they changed it. And no matter what happens Monday Night, Orton getting made the No. 1 contender will be really rushed and really lame. Him winning the title will just be the icing on the cake.

And another thing, whatever happened to that hand popping out of the grave? That sure went places, huh?

I think people want things mixed up a bit. Triple H getting the title, or main eventing, wouldn't bother me if it didn't happen at every single pay per view. Using these guys well is the key. Triple H is overused. The reason they feel the need to make Orton a main eventer is because they think they have no else. They feel that only Triple H, Shawn and maybe Benoit are main eventers, so they need to use Orton. What they SHOULD be doing is using Jericho, Booker, RVD and Hardy in a main event capacity and letting them mix it up with Triple H, Benoit and Shawn. Orton, Shelton and, to a lesser extent, Edge have a long time left. Use them later and let them fill up the IC Title division now.

UH OH. They're gonna come and get us!

But let me ask the question: Would Orton be able to hold his own in matches against the likes of Kane, Batista or A-Train like Benoit has in the past? Or would he constantly need to wrestle guys like Jericho and Benoit to stay over? There are limits with Orton; there are none with Benoit. Orton wouldn't be able to make a match with Triple H or Kane work like Benoit can. He doesn't have "it" in the ring yet. Yeah, he's charasmatic (kinda) and seems to have all the tools, but the one thing he doesn't have is the most important of all. The in-ring skills of a Champion. You can tell he's still rough round the edges, and that hes till has alot to learn. Let him learn, and THEN put the belt on him. Not now. Benoit seems better suited for 'champion' than Orton does. Despite what many think, wrestling ability is still the most important quality in this day and edge. You can get over without great mic skills, you can get over without being charasmatic, you can get over despite being a bad actor. It's hard to get over in the main event if you aren't a good or competent wrestler. It takes something special for fans to overlook your in-ring ability. Orton, for all his superstar qualities, looks lost at times in the ring. He STILL doesn't know how to work a bodypart (which seems to be the most important thing in WWE these days) and that affects the meat of his matches.

Face Jericho at Slam?

Do we have an explanation for why Heyman is even allowed on SmackDown! anymore?

But injuries are a part of wrestling. You could use the same argument to push EVERYONE now. He may be injured with a couple of years, so let's push him now. Regardless of if Randy gets seriously injured in the next few years, it doesn't matter. Someone else will come along to take his place. It's different with maybe someone like Rock who is completely unique and one of a kind. Randy doesn't have that. He's gonna be good, but there are tons of guys who can be just as good.

Suzuki is worse than Jones. He's one of the worst wrestlers I've ever seen.

No, Suzuki is much worse than Tomko, as is Heidenreich. Atleast Tomko had a semi-decent match with Jericho. The other two haven't broken DUD yet.

I don't see why Benoit needs to lose the blt now. Yes, he does have to lose it eventually. But, is his reign bombing so bad that he needs to lose it at Slam? I don't think so. Everyone is acting like either Triple H or Orton HAS to win the belt. Let Benoit run with it for the rest of the year. Nothing has gone wrong.

If he still needs to improve in certain areas, why give him the belt? Why not wait until he has improved? The point about him being 23 is not that someone that young shouldn't be given the belt. It's that he has YEARS ahead of him. He doesn't need the belt yet. What happens when he wins it? Where does he go from there? Does he win it another 10 times in his career? Why not milk the likes of Benoit, Shawn, Jericho, Kane, even Triple H for all they are worth now? In 5 years time when some of the guys are retired, Orton is still going to be around and he's still going to be young. It's not like they NEED another main eventer right now. The other guys are doing fine. Save Orton for later, when he's needed. He is not, as you say, alot better than most wrestlers. Randy Orton is a pretty average wrestler, who still needs to improve ALOT. There is nothing wrong with that. He's 23 years old, he's still improving, he's not supposed to be great yet. They've done a good job protecting Orton by putting him in there with guys like Jericho, Shawn, Foley and Shelton. Guys who are WAY better than Orton. They got him over by constantly pushing him down our throats, and some times that is what you got to do. What that means, however, is that Randy wasn't completely 'accepted'. It's not like with Cena, who was immediatley over after changing gimmicks, and got over without much of a push. Randy got over by winning matches, by being put over everyone else. It means his push was forced, and he's getting face reactions now because of how many guys he went over. On Raw, Benoit, Jericho, Trips, Shawn, Edge, Christian and Kane are all better to push right now. Orton can wait. Give him the IC Title back, and let him feud with Edge and Shelton for the rest of the year. He isn't needed, and doesnt need to be, in the main event. You admit yourself, he needs to be carried to a great match. When all he can have is decent matches with good workers, then he shouldn't be NEAR the title. Look at Benoit. He can get a good match out of an average at best worker, like Kane. Could Randy Orton have as good a match with a better worker than Kane (say, Triple H) than Benoit could? I doubt it. Guys like Benoit can make themeselves and their opponent look good. Thus a good match. Randy Orton can not YET do this. Don't give him the title. And Edge is a better choice for the title than Orton.

No way I see Christian and Shelton back for Slam.

You're missing the point. Brock was 5 months into his WWE career when he got the belt. He was SUPPOSED to be green. Randy Orton is 2 1/2 years into his. Being 'as good as Brock when he won the title' isn't an accomplishment.

I always thought Cena vs Orton was the 'big one' that would carry the company for years to come. Not what I want to see, but they seem to be the two guys who are primed for superstardom.