Dark Age

Eddie is more over than Cena.

I listed Shelton, Orton, Booker and Edge. All are better than Cena, with Orton maybe equal. Cena hasn't been fun since Mania. Once he won the US Title he went right down the shitter. I liked Cena ALOT last year. He was one of my favourite wrestlers, and he had (was carried) a fair share of good matches with Angle, Taker and Eddie. Plus he was one of the best characters on the show. This year, however, he has sucked. He's had one decent match all year, against Taker. Everything else has been awful. He's shown ZERO improvement all year. But hey, if you find guys saying 'the poopie the poopie the poopie' entertaining, then good for you.

But Brock is ALOT better than Randy. Randy isn't bad, but he's not that good either. Again, Brock had been around 5 months when he won the belt, so it's a different scenario. Brock and Randy came on the scene around the same time, and at this point (or prior to Brock leaving) Brock is/was way better in every department. Randy Orton will be BADLY exposed as champ. Unless they have him face Benoit and Jericho every night. Keeping it on Benoit for the rest of the year is the best option. Nothing has gone wrong so far, and if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I've talked to a few mods about this, and it was suggested I post this here. There's like, 4 or 5 DVD threads floating about in the WWE Folder. An Eddy one, Benoit one, favourite one, etc. I suggested making one dvd thread where you could post all news on future WWE DVDS, opinions on current ones, matches you would like to see on future ones, etc. Do we really need single threads for EVERY WWE DVD? Most of them just turn into people talking about what they would like to see on future DVDs, so why not make a OAO thread where you post all DVD stuff? Thoughts.

Is the CZW match where Fleisch runs up the wall?

I think it was a good match, but with so many being on SD at the time, it didn't stand out. After 20 minute singles matches between the guys on free tv for weeks, it is a little dissapointing when the big blowoff (with all 6 guys) gets just 25 minutes on ppv.

Just wondering why you think that? Well...... For one, Shelton is alot more technically gifted. In the ring, I'd take Shelton over Orton any day. Outside of a couple of matches here and there (Jericho and Edge on Raw), Orton bores me. I've NEVER got that with Shelton. He hasn't had a singles push like Orton has had for the past year, so it's hard to compare both guys' work. However, my favourite Orton match (Foley excluded) was against Shelton. More so, I've enjoyed the few singles matches Shelton has had more than most of Orton's. His match with Benoit just after his debut, the match with Triple H on Raw, and his matches with Rey Mysterio have all been alot more enjoyable for me than most Orton matches. He doesn't seem as lost as Orton does at times. Go back and watch the series with Tajiri and Eddie last year. He knows how to pace himself, when to work restholds, how to use them, etc. Orton has improved with his intesity and facial expressions when using a chinlock or neck vice, but you still get the feeling that he's wasting time, rather than using the holds for a purpose or to contribute o the story. Granted, Shelton is doing this in tag matches, so he has an advantage. Shelton's match with Triple H told a better story than most any Orton match. Triple H not knowing what he's getting into, underestimating the kid, Shelton with something to prove. Just the instances of Shelton slapping Triple H on the cheek after having it done to him were great to me. Shelton owning him on the mat, then firing off everything in his arsenal and shocking the Game with nearfall after nearfall. Shelton busting out stuff he's never used before to take down Trips (Stinger Splash, tp rope clothesline, etc). It was only a 15 minute tv match (with commercial), yet I haven't seen an Orton match I've enjoyed as match as that. Shelton had a better match with Eddie Guerrero in 4 minutes last year than most matches Orton has had. It was just 6 weeks after Shelton's debut, yet you could tell he was something special. His tag matches against Los Guerreros, Eddie/Tajiri and Rey/Kidman were WAY better than most/all Orton matches (diffeent type of matches I know, but it's hard to compare a tag wrestler to a singles). Shelton has alot more 'character' to him as well. Watch the 'APA is Crap' segment. He showed more in that than Orton has in anything, in terms of charisma and attitude. That's all I got for now.

Yup, been in a few threads now. I assume this leaves Edge/Batista (they're running that on house shows), Jericho/Kane and La Resistance vs Rhyno and Tajiri. I explained why in the other thread, but Orton winning the title is an AWFUL idea. I still think it will be Triple H vs Regal.

I enoyed the Jericho match, but DID NOT like the matches with Shawn and RVD at all. Neither were what I would call 'good'. Solid, maybe. Not good. The Shawn match at Unforgiven was a whole lot of nothing. I'm a little sketchy, but wasn't it just Orton walking over the arm of Shawn for 10 minutes or so, and they went absolutely NOWHERE with it. Why go for Shawn's arm? Go for the obvious target, the back. It's not like there was anywhere they COULD have taken it, as Orton didn't/doesn't have any moves to do with an opponent's arm. Plus the match was terribly boring, had bizarre selling from Shawn, and a TERRIBLE finish. Not a good match at all. The RVD match on Raw was 'okay' but nothing more. Orton worked a bodyscissors for most of the match, yet finished with a DDT. Why? What did he plan to do? Was he using the bodyscissors to keep RVD grounded? If so, why not go for the obvious target, the legs? Go after the neck to set up the RKO or the ddt or whatever, but the bodyscissors was pointless. It would be fine if there was a strategy, but it just comes across as Orton filling time until they could start firing off the near falls. Like I said, I enjoyed the Jericho match, so I'll give you that one. It was good, but not 'really good'. That wasn't my point. My point is that if Orton was being given the Title 11 months into his run, then yes, the comparisons with Angle are fine. However, Kurt Angle was as good at 11 months as Orton is now, after close to 30 months. In three shows? Keep in mind they already have the Iron Man Match booked for Monday. Sure, they COULD build the match. They COULD justify it. But it will be a terrible rush job. They've no time to have Benoit blow off his feud with Triple H, Orton win a tournament, and then give us a reason to care about the match. No, not unheard of. But the way it's been handled with Orton would be silly. He's lost TWICE to Edge. Edge, just a month ago, lost to La Resistance. Why would I buy Orton as a viable contender to Benoit? He's not better than Edge, who holds the secondary title, so why should he got a shot at the main title? We are led to believe that Benoit is better than Edge, so how is Orton a threat to Benoit? Now, if the would have waited a month or two, and rebuilt Orton with wins over Jericho, a returning Shelton and someone else (no other faces), then he would be believable in challenging Benoit. Not BEATING him, but challenging.

Shelton Benjamin >>> Orton

But Kurt was alot better on the mic, alot more charasmatic and alot more hated by the fans. Orton hasn't had any really good singles matches yet. Foley was a gimmick, and there are very conflicting views on the Vengeance match with Edge. Other than that, what good matches has he had? Shelton Benjamin at Bad Blood? Jericho on Raw? Edge on Raw? Also, keep in mind that Kurt was 11 months into his WWE career. Orton is nearly 2 1/2 years. Kurt showed more potential in less time than Orton. Kurt 2000 > Orton 2004 And they can't justify it. It's stupid. He shouldn't be challenging for he belt at SSlam, but going over for it is unforgivable. Why not have him beat Jericho on pay per view so that he has an actual reason to be challenging for the title? Don't job him to Edge (a guy jobbing to GRENIER a month ago) twice, then suddenly have him challenge for, and win, the World Title. Batista is more buyable than Orton. Coming off a pay per view win over Jericho, beat the crap out of Benoit on Raw. All it would take is for him to beat another 'name' and he's the no. 1 contender. UGH.

Except the fact that he's shit in the ring. And Shelton will deffinitley be champ, but it will be a while.

Wow. After SummerSlam, Orton and JBL could be champs. Taker and Triple H will be the ones to beat them. That's quite depressing. I still don't think Orton will go over.

No, he was supposed to be sympathetic. He wasn;t supposed to be booed. We were supposed to feel sorry for him. Plus the Eugene Sucks chants came when he tagged in, he did nothing 'bad'.

But at least with a moonsault or a SSP, you can say you're building momentum. They look alot more painful than a regualr splash. SS Piledriver dos NOTHING. But you're right, it is just for flash. I've got no problem with it, it's just kinda pointless.

Orton's been getting some face pops for a while now.

Eh, whatever. We are just gonna have to agree to disagree. I think what you're saying is completely untrue, but I can't be bothered getting in an argument that will go nowhere.

No problems man. And FS, I doubt many people would be willing to search for an old Benoit DVD thread, so just sticking a Pinned OAO thread would let people find the thread alot more easily. I only suggested this because there seems to be alot of talk about the dvds lately.

Most people in the arena knew that Batista was from the area, hence the face pop. Regardless, there were still 'Chris Benoit' chants and he got a big pop for his entrance. If HBK is more over, why did Benoit get MUCH bigger reactions at WM, Backlash and Bad Blood? The pay per views, you know, the shows that count? Why did Benoit get as much a face reaction as HBK when they faced each other for the title in 'HBK Country'? The same as earlier this year when they went one on one. Why did Shawn get booed when he superkicked Benoit at the contract signing? Why did Benoit outpop Shawn at almsot EVERY SINGLE SHOW? Yeha, Triple H get's a bigger reaction. That's why the fans were bored shitless at Bad Blood. Or why they were completely behind Benoit in all the matches they have had. Note the 'Lets Go Benoit' as opposed to 'Triple H Sucks'. In other words, the heat is on Benoit, not H. You must be joking with Eugene. Once they pushed him near the main event, the fans have rapidly lost interest. Remember those 'Eugene Sucks' chants? They were NOT what WWE wanted. Eugene was supposed to sympathetic in that instance, instead the crowd shit all over him. Benoit = Most over face on Raw

DH, it's not that these threads bother me. It was merely a suggestion. The main point of it was for news on DVD releases. Now, surely that wouldn't be to confusing? Someone posts about the Angle DVD being released, it's discussed, people say what they would like to see on it. Another DVD release in announced, goes in same thread. The talk of the other dvd(s) would have died down, so now talk turns to the new releases. Then, someone buys the Angle dvd, discussion is sparked again, in the same thread. This is opposed to a thread announcing the RELEASE DATE of the Angle dvd, a thread about the MATCHES on the Angle dvd, and then a thread giving THOUGHTS on the Angle dvd (once you've bought it). See what I'm getting at? Maybe a better idea would a OAO Chris Benoit DVD thread?

Maybe I missed SUPER OVER ORTON! He's got some 'Lets Go Orton' chants. That's it. They haven't been deafening, or really loud chants. He hasn't got monster face pops. He's getting SOME face heat. Some. Benoit would outpop him, and the fans would be behind Benoit. Maybe it would start with some fans behind Orton, but Benoit has a knack of winning people over during the match. Though you don't want to believe it Z, Benoit is the most over guy on Raw. More over than Edge. More over than Orton, Triple H, Eugene, Kane. The only guy who is MAYBE more over is Jericho.

Yeah, right. Sure. You in your make believe world where Benoit isn't over. Here's a newsflash for you, bub: HE'S VERY FUCKING OVER! End of story.

I think it's a joke. It's all a big joke. Isn't it? ISN'T IT?

!!!!!! That better not be true.

But that's not what people have been asking. Of course, there will be exceptions. But most of the time, the talk just turns to "I wanna see this match on the Benoit dvd" "I wanna see that on Eddie's." Or, the newest thread "which one of these is the best". Surely when you have pretty mcuh the EXACT SAME DISCUSSION going on in seperate threads, it would be a good idea to merge them? Anyway, it's only a suggestion. If you don't think it's a good idea, then fair enough. You've been around here alot longer than me FS, so you'd be a better judge on how these things work.