Precious Roy

It's referee's discretion, that's the best explanation I can come up with. Hebner is usually one of the more leniant refs when it comes to DQ's..... I was more pissed at the lack of a count when Eugene made his little tour around ringside. He was out there for AT LEAST 15-20 seconds, the ref NEVER made a count, but then began to count when both Edge and Eugene were on the outside

No. It's no different than any other shitty racial or political angle the WWE has ran over the years. It has a very slight potential to be relevant, which will never be realized because of what the WWE is, which at it's core is trashy entertainment. The only thing to come of this angle will be re-enforced stereotypes, on both sides.

I think I read somewhere that Lesnar is free to work for another company at some point in 05, and if WWE is serious about freezing him out for a bit I think he'd be quite wise to go to New Japan, where he would no doubt get over HUGE, as Japan loves big gaijins who can work.

The finish with Sid's foot on the ropes was the obvious out for WCW if Benoit did indeed walk, which of course he did, but for that moment and one night he was the WCW World Champion, so for me personally it still counts. I mean, you can say that it was only done to bribe him, which it was, but whatever, that's the business for ya, and given the fact that if he'd decided to stay he would have recieved a decent length reign as a payoff I'm not buying that as a reason to strike it from the record, it was simply an obvious case of WCW watching their ass.

I'll remember him as a Packer. His days with the Eagles, as great as they were, faded into the background after his success in Green Bay. "Green Bay Packer, former Philadelphia Eagle..." sounds about right. And I'd completely forgot about his stint with Carolina, how many games did he actually play for them?

I don't think Reggie White ever did steroids, he never had that look to him, he was naturally big, kind of fat actually, and his head and general size never changed over the years. Kind of disrespectful to start a thread like this based on his death given that there is nothing to base it on. Though I agree with your overall point about steroid using athletes dying young, I would have kept him out of the thread title. EDIT* saying that his "morals" and the fact that he was a pastor means he *couldn't* have used roids or anything like that is absurd. As we've seen countless times, some of the most devout individuals often display the most selective morality.

I agree with what you said, but the key to this trade and how IMO Houston looked at it is that their team offense has struggled and Wesley is a guy who has proven he can run an offense and distribute the ball, even though he's a downgrade in certain areas. Jackson is a 2/3 and can't handle the ball well at all, Sura can handle the ball but needs help and struggle against pressure, and T-Mac can handle the ball but they don't want him having to run the offense as it takes away from his strengths. Wesley takes pressure off of Sura, matches Jackson's shooting in general, and allows for them to not have to rely on Lue and Ward at the point, neither of whom is capable of being a consistent PG. Wesley alone is not the answer at point, but a Wesley-Sura backcourt will be more effective than a Sura-Jackson one given that the goal is to setup Yao and McGrady, and IMO Wesley compliments McGrady/Yao more than Jackson, though not taking that into account I think Jackson is the better overall player and should improve New Orleans' team, especially if Baron Davis manages to stay healthy now. I think this trade improves Houston in the short-term, though they obviously still need upgrades in the backcourt over the next few years.

I disagree slightly, it's not great, but it's not awful either. I really like Jim Jackson, he's matured into a great role player, and Nachjbar has shown potential, but Houston wasn't performing, Jackson didn't mesh with McGrady the way he did with Francis/Mobley, they needed a change, and Wesley seems like a good fit for that team, at least for the rest of this season. He can play the 1 or 2 and is a solid defender, and at the end of the day he's a much better option at the 1 than anyone they had. A Wesley-Sura backcourt has promise, moreso than a Sura-Jackson backcourt where neither guy was able to really initiate the offense.

O'Neil was Gene Michaels? Yeah, I guess it was, for some reason I completely blocked him out of my mind. Whatever happened to old Stick?

No. It's entirely pointful, and I'm writing off your Lakers too, as well about 20-22 other teams. It's pretty fucking easy to tell which teams will be there late in the playoffs and which won't be. There seems to be a mental block between what a guy does physically and what a guy does mentally on the court. The Kings, back in 1997/98, started playing Princeton style ball. Vlade was the guy who helped breed that on-court environment, the passing, the movement, the trust amongst teammates. Webber always had the skills, but he was a selfish player before he hooked up with Vlade. Christie had never found his niche. Vlade had Webber, Christie, J-Will/Bibby, Peja, Turkolu and everyone working that system as well as possible, and yes, without question he was the lynchpin, because they ran the damn offense through him and everyone else got in line. Webber was the best all around talent, Peja was the sharpshooter, Christie was the do-it-all guard, but it started and ended with Vlade. He brought intangibles, that in Sacramento's case, nobody else in the world can bring. Is he old and past his prime? Of course he is, do you see me saying he's 26 years old? But you're not paying for his body, you're paying for his mind, and for his lockerroom presence. If you think they're better off with Ostertag you're insane. Sacramento might have a decent record right now, but I've watched them play, and they aren't the same team they used to be. They can still run that offense to perfection at times, but they also have long stretches where they fall apart, which never happened when it was Vlade's team. I'm really sick of laboring this point, either you get it or you don't, you obviously don't, but if you ever have a chance to you know, talk to someone who actually understands the game, they'll tell you the same thing I have. Of course, if Bill Walton or Hubie Brown said it I'm sure you'd eat it up and ask for seconds.

*yawn* Saying team leadership is bs is bs, it's just an excuse for stat geeks to put themselves over. If you'd ever actually played a team sport, been a part of a team, rather than being a mark for them, you'd know the score. Vlade was valuable to the Kings, end of story. If you say he wasn't, and you say losing him didn't hurt, you're full of bullshit. Is he valuable to LA? NO, because it's Kobe's team, he's an afterthought, and he's only there for money/sentiment anyway. It was a bad signing by LA given the makeup of their organization, but for whatever reason they felt it was a save face move after letting Shaq go. Was he valuable to Sacto? Yes, because neither Peja or Webber has a dominant personality and Vlade was WITHOUT QUESTION the reason they were ever as good as they were. The whole team concept, "greatest show on court," that all started with Vlade, he was the man for them. If you can't see or admit that it simply, frankly, means that you're not very knowledgeable about the game. Ask C-Webb and Peja how they feel about Vlade leaving, Peja especially. Ask ANY coach in the league, especially Pete Carill, how those Sacramento teams operated so well. The FIRST THING I SAID was that even with Vlade they weren't good enough to get over the hump, I SAID IT FIRST, doesn't change the fact that they're further from the rings without him and are a much weaker team...... Save a complete rebuilding, which is more or less impossible with Webber on the books, this team cannot contend as is. Did letting Vlade walk get them closer? Are they really saving any money in the big picture? No and no. It was a bad move, and I can't believe anyone here is dumb enough to defend it, ESPECIALLY considering they gave almost the same contract Vlade got to Greg Ostertag, the anti-contributor.

Bottom five of the the top 15, upper half of 30, same thing...... EDIT* Sorry, the way you worded that with the "I could be convinced to flip it" I thought you meant those 5 were borderline top 10. My bad.

Not trying to be a dick, but I'm glad I'm not the only one willing to speak up who thinks Rick Rudo is off his rocker....

I can buy the "PJ is average" argument. I think they're a great band, but I also think they're greater than the sum of their parts and for the most part carried by Vedder's vocals. Soundgarden is fucking awesome though, awesome across the board, to call them average tells me you're not very familiar with their catalogue. And I'll co-sign on Hoobastank, Creed, Staind and most of the popular post-Grunge stuff. Most of it is listenable, but very average, and no progression from the music of their influences.

I've never seen It's a Wonderful Life Christmas Story? Meh. It's a good movie, but it's not "I NEED TO WATCH THIS OVER AND OVER AGAIN!" good. I've seen it so many fucking times I can't even stand it anymore. Good for the kids, not so good for people who've had to sit through it dozens of times......

I hate you.... Seriously though, we've already lost Weiss, and Crennel deserves a head coaching job too. I'd be pissed, but I'd also root my heart out for the guy, just like I'll be doing for Notre Dame now. And I actually thing San Fran is a perfect fit for him, good call. Pick up a good O coordinator and he could probably get something good going, they've got some decent players out there, especially on D, just haven't been able to put it all together. Make some smart moves in the draft and FA and they're an instant contender in a very sketchy NFC west.

Who says he can't play? He had a fluke back injury, one of the few semi-serious injurys in his career, and LA is bringing him along slow because they have Mihm/Grant, want Vlade to get a better feel for the team, and don't need to test their luck by putting him out there right now. They obviously aren't paying him all that money to cheer from the bench, and you can bet he'll be up to 25 minutes a night down the stretch and play an important role the playoffs. My point still stands. His value to Sacramento couldn't be measured in dollars, he was the TEAM LEADER, the motivator, and the buffer between Webber and Peja, and the fact that Sacramento is more or less off the map in terms of contenders really hits that point home. The Maloofs have a lot of money, they can afford to slightly overpay certain players, they can afford the luxury tax, and they put that money to work by.........signing Greg Ostertag? Fuck that.

And I'm surprised you'd mention Moorad in the upper half. I don't follow the D-Backs too closely, other than the Johnson buzz obviously, but I thought the Sexson trade and the Glaus/Ortiz signings were pretty shitty.

Steinbrenner aside, Cashman is typically good when allowed to do his thing. The Brosius deal was amazing, as well as picking up O'Neil and Tino when their stock was down somewhat. the Yankees have made their share of dumb moves though, and sometimes it's hard to tell what was Cashman and what was King George. I'd say it's a fairly even split with them on boners, though the obvious ones usually land with George (Irabu, Lofton etc.). He does have, even with KG, the biggest bankroll to work with though, and it's impossible to say how he'd do with a smaller market, say, half of what NY spends. My gut says he'd do well, helped by his experience in NY, but I can't be 100% sure. It's really a blessing/curse type thing in NY, and the fact that he looks eternally stressed out really doesn't shock me

I couldn't agree more. Varitek is the heart and soul of that team, you HAVE to keep players like that. Don't mess with success...... Is he, stat wise, worth $10 mil a season? Not exactly, but his presence is. IMO that's why the Marlins couldn't match their 2003 success last year, letting Pudge walk. As great as everyone performed for them, he was the biggest factor in them winning out.

Cashman is doing Steinbrenner's bidding most of the time and isn't exactly free to shape the team himself. It's a unique case and kind of hard to gauge his performance.

Did you even read what I said? Who said a fucking thing about LA? He was the glue IN SACRAMENTO, the Lakers are Kobe's team.

Heh, I think that's kind of funny actually, and it's not exactly breaking kayfabe

I thought of something else, the Dead Man return..... The match itself, I would have handled it differently, but whatever. I like the dark gunslinger look, nice evolution, but after Mania they fumbled him SO BAD, not having him on TV for weeks at a time, running retarded programs like Booker using voodoo and Paul Bearer getting killed, and just generally ruining whatever buzz the character had. They had a chance to really ride Undertaker and keep SD! hot w/o Lesnar/Angle/Show, and they blew it. With what they used him for I say they would have been much better off just switching him to RAW in the lottery and giving SD some guys they could actually use, Hurricane and Maven for the cruiser division, Val Venis, Steven Richards just to name a few.