LuckyLopez

Two years as a well above average starting pitcher before Philly made him a stop gap closer?

Agreed. If Booker calls Joe a paper champion who can't beat him and then wins? Well then Booker's been (in theory) proven correct. Joe was a paper champion and after Booker got screwed in KotM he went and won the belt when he got a fair shot. But if Joe wins then all of what Booker said was just hot air from an egotistical and condescending heel. Steiner calling Joe fat, out of shape, and incapable of beating him was shown to be meaningless when Joe beat him. If this were the time for Joe to lose the belt then, yeah, his opponent trashing him seems wrong. But presuming this is just another step in Joe's reign with Joe beating a former World Champion in his own hometown (and possibly with Nash and the Dudleyz to deal with) then I have no problem with the heel trashing him. And yeah, the reason I didn't think HHH was burying Booker was because I presumed it had to lead to Booker proving himself and shutting HHH up with a win. When it didn't then it played off as the things HHH said being true and Booker truly not belong on his level. But its that outcome that makes the difference. There are plenty of examples of faces who proved the heel wrong in the end and heels who came out on top, but given Booker's role that one just stood out to me.

I'm with bps. I think we all were annoyed when Joe was a petulant guy who whined and yelled and argued with everyone. I much prefer the guy who is confident and calm and knows he doesn't have to swing at everyone who badmouths him. He's the champ and he's confident that when all is said and done he'll still be the champ. So attacking Booker over words is meaningless. Not to mention that in this case Booker DID get screwed by Nash, which is where Joe is actually directing his anger. But I've never really been a strong believer in the idea that a heel can't insult a face in personal ways. Booker talks down to people and thinks he's better than everyone. It's who he is and he's done it to everyone. So when he says it about Joe I just see it as more of his gimmick, not some great truths that he's revealing to us. Same when Steiner did it. But maybe I'm crazy because I didn't even think HHH was burying Booker all those years ago until the end of that feud.

Well the thing is with all those other characters we saw their bodies because their friends found them and buried them. In Jin's case that was impossible. The chopper couldn't go looking and the folks on the island wouldn't even know to look. Unless Jin's body were to wash up on the beach him dying there basically doesn't get closure. So the only way they could give us that closure we've come to know would be by completely changing how he dies, why they left him behind, and Sun's resentment and anger. But I do think that its reasonable to believe they left things vague just to screw with us. Whether they were leaving the door open to bring him back or just giving us a reason to wonder and screw with our heads... I think its reasonable to think they did that different. But I also think its plenty reasonable to say that the nature of his death and the whole crisis made it completely unrealistic for us to get any kind of shot of his body and a graphic shot of him dying would have just been unnecessarily vulgar for Lost. Plus there is the aspect that we already knew he was dead for months before he died. And unlike Charlie it wasn't a "You will die" thing where they were constantly saving him. It was the realization that in the near future he will "die" and the Oceanic 6 will leave him behind. So I think there's something to be said for the Lost guys not giving us the typical death story because they already did months earlier. We even got that slow mourning music they play whenever anyone dies when Hurley and Sun went to his grave. If the argument is basically that Lost tends to give us little "eulogies" for important characters then you can definitely argue that the reason they didn't give us one in the finale is because they already gave us it in the Sun/Jin episodes earlier in the season. Alive, dead. Its Lost. I presume nothing. I will say that I rewatched the finale last night and Jin escaping doesn't seem as plausible as my memory suggested. Jin was never shown to get to the end of the deck and was pretty much dead center. And the explosion didn't come from the back with the little bunker construct. It came from the center of the boat not too far from exactly where Jin was. And it didn't come more than a few seconds after our last shot of him. So while I still do think its possible the writers let him escape I now think an escape would be a rather unrealistic action film sort of thing.

Well I'm definitely not going to defend Tenay and West. I have no disagreements with almost every criticism people have about them. Still, Booker and Team 3D cut 2 promos in the last 2 weeks. They formed the week before that after the Dudleys cut a "You watch our back, while watch yours" agreement to an unseen person. So the group has been together for 4 weeks and in the first 3 of them they stated their reasons. So while I agree that Tenay and West are horrible at filling in the stories for us I do think there's something to be said for them not necessarily needing to in the one week when the wrestlers don't. But I definitely agree on the announcers. Last night I said to someone I was watching with how lousy they told to story of Knuckles' debut. Within seconds of her arriving West proclaimed "Well obviously she's muscle that the Beautiful People acquired." But she hadn't yet attacked anyone, she hadn't yet worked with the BP, and the BP hadn't made any references to her. So why West was right it came off (to me at least) like he jumped the cue basically and told us something he probably shouldn't have realized for another few seconds. A few seconds being a few seconds and it being a kind of clear thing, but it rubbed me wrong as another example of how they're not good storytellers.

With all due respect many of your criticisms seem like ones that are simply a matter of you not being a regular viewer. Actually they addressed it (IMO) quite well and in a similar way they addressed AJ's history with them tonight. When AJ and Tomko turned on Christian he went looking for allies and partners for Lethal Lockdown. Rhino was the first man he went to and he was aghast. He tore him a new one for even trying after everything he had done and ignored. Christian went back the next week and laid out a lengthy apology. Rhino said something like he might be able to forgive him for the things he did to him, but that Christian was like family to his daughter and he couldn't forgive him for what his daughter saw and heard from him. Christian seemed genuinely sorrowful and after a few weeks of being beatdown when he had no friends Rhino bailed him out. It was the core of the slow story of Christian redeeming himself and finding some allies for Lockdown that a lot of people liked. On the other hand Roode/Booker is a joke and a pretty common thing in wrestling that pisses me off. And watching them team up against Christian and Rhino and remembering that TNA DID address the continuity and then seeing AJ address it just made me wonder aloud why they couldn't do 1 backstage segment where Roode and Booker make some kind of heel business agreement where Booker shows wearing down opponents for the title means more to him than beating up the dude who accidentally smacked his wife for the 20th time. They've cut a couple of promos together and the motivation has been based on their shared disdain for the others in the lockerroom and belief that considering how highly decorated all 3 of them have been in their wrestling careers they deserve better. They've specifically compared their title counts and success outside of TNA. They've also given the clear impression that they're playing on a simple "power in numbers" principle as the first week they worked together Booker helped Team 3D take out LAX before they helped him win his KotM qualifier. As for LAX they did come out at the end of the show to brawl with the Dudleys. So it seems easy enough to chalk up their absence at the start of the show to them not being around at the time. It was after all the opening minutes of the program and the Dudleys attacked before the match ever even really got going. ODB has been fighting with the Beautiful People nearly as long as Roxxi has. She and Kim happily became Roxxi's allies and tag partners since even before the shaving. Plus, I believe Roxxi has had both BP in singles matches over the last few weeks, but I'm not sure of that. I know she had Love last week and ODB (and Kim on crutches but moving fairly well) saved her. The Beautiful People & Knuckles vs Roxxi, ODB, and Kim was announced by the announcers. They were presumably waiting for Knuckles' debut and Kim's "healing" to book it. They've explained it many times. Supposedly its a commonly used learning technique in schools in Michigan to show where Michigan is on the map, the palm being the US or something. I don't know but I've heard multiple Michigan natives confirm that it is quite common and the Guns and announcers have definitely explained it on the air a couple of times, probably closer to a year ago when the Guns formed in TNA. As much as I like the Beautiful People in their ability to be truly vile people I've really hated their promos the last 2 weeks. Actually, this week's wasn't that bad except for one horrible line of "Don't hate the Beautiful People, hate the game" that when they used last week had me convinced they were going to join Booker T and the Dudleyz. But that week's was horrible. Otherwise I am a fan of them and I think they've actually gotten better as talkers than they were months ago when they started. But they're still iffy at best on the mic. And I hate the EY/Elvis stuff but its short enough that I have taken to ignoring it. I'm also pretty disinterested in the Sting stuff but again, I can ignore it. TNA routinely does these short segments and they never really bother me. If I am interested I tune in. If its a themed one that I know I don't care about I tune out. If I don't know and it ends up sucking it was a whole 30 seconds and I don't care. All told I rather have a 30 second idiotic EY skit each week for a month than a 2 minute skit 1 week. But that's me. Obviously I'd prefer neither. But I thought the KotM was fun without actually being enough to take away from Sunday's main event. I'm very much liking AJ's very logical frustration and anger at all the crap he's taken from Angle (and Tomko, Booker, and Team 3D). Some of the Lethal stuff was amusing which makes this the first time in a month I've cared about him or this stupid wedding, and the seemingly inevitable "The Snake ruined my wedding" gag actually has me kind of wanting to watch it. Also I've been kind of convinced for awhile that Sonjay isn't jealous of Lethal and in love with Val but the other way around, and him somehow thinking Kip James was the best choice for a stripper just felt like I might be right. And I love the road they've taken with Kong's challenge. It makes complete sense that if Kong is offering these challenges and we know it ahead of time that actual wrestlers are going to start coming to Orlando to try to beat her. Having wrestlers appear and be acknowledged for who they are is great and will make the presumingly inevitable end of this story make a ton more sense than these things usually go. Instead of some fan somehow getting a win and then being realized as a wrestler or weeks of Kong beating up anonymous "fans" we have essentially an open challenge to the wrestling world. And you can logically bring in better talent who put more of a fight to her and ultimately someone who beats her not because of luck or a miracle but because she's a peer (if I had to lay money I wouldn't be surprised by Cheerleader Melissa, but if they can nab a name like Molly Holly or Lita that would be notable). Since that segment I've been trying to think of a Memphis based lady with at least as much name value/recognizability as Daffney. That seems to be the one kinda misfire. Daffney almost seems like too popular a name to have been the first name. Seems like you could have fed Kong Bayless or O'Neal first since neither would mean much to anyone but the hardcore indy fan while Daffney is recognizable to WCW fans. So overall I enjoyed the show because the only thing I really disliked for more than a few seconds was the Roode/Booker thing. And really, I in part dealt with that a month ago when they teamed up at Sacrifice.

Is that really a notable point though? TNA is not of the same pedigree as WWE. That's obvious. Its only 6 years old and is a growing company that only recently began regular touring or primetime TV. A former employee from a Fortune 500 company is more likely to be promoted in a midlevel company than a former employee of that midlevel company is to end up on top of a Fortune 500. WWE is more likely to lose or fire someone who is on a high level than TNA is. Because guys like Christian, Angle, and Booker T was theoretically expendable to WWE because of its stability and the presence of main eventers established for years or even a decade or so. Factor in that WWE was for a few years there the only dog in the race and had most of the quality talent that came out of WCW and ECW. Guys like Raven, Rhino, or Booker T who would be more closely associated with those companies by most passed through WWE, and because of all the talent WWE had thanks to the monopoly it was much easier to bury an ECW main eventer and WCW midcarder like Raven in the WWE lower card. Guys who worked the midcard in WWE sometimes reach the highest level in TNA. Its not as if TNA hotshotted the title on Christian, Raven, Rhino, or Angle the second they got in the company (in fact, in Raven's case they waited well past the point that many fans wanted it). Its not as if its been some kind of mandate since Booker hasn't gotten it and neither have Tomko, Jeff Hardy, Scott Steiner, VKM, Team 3D, Rikishi, Test, Dustin Rhodes, Morgan, The Bashams, Hall, Nash, Syxx, Spike Dudley, or any other former WWE employees who passed through or remain on the roster. So I'm not sure what the pattern is. Some WWE midcarders and main eventers win the TNA Title after differing passages of time, while some continue to wait, will likely never get it, or left TNA without it ever happening. Could Lashley win the TNA Title? Of course. Would he probably end up in the upper midcard/main event upon arriving in TNA? Of course. But isn't that kind of where he fits from a simple matter of profile and resume? And don't get me wrong, I think TNA has reached for past WWE employees and gave them spots based on reps and WWE creds when it wasn't for the best (see VKM) but it seems ridiculous that people still say things like "Lashley would get the title right away if he showed up in TNA, because he's from WWE" when Booker T has been there for 6 months and is just now getting in his first title feud and Angle went 8 months before winning the belt. TNA makes mistakes of varying levels and it hires many more WWE castoffs than WWE hires TNA castoffs. Which seems like a simple matter of the relative position of the two companies and the nature of their rosters. TNA is a growing company only 6 years old that has only recently gained anything close to the profile or level of WWE (and really aren't that close at all). Resources that WWE deems invaluable to them have a good chance to be deemed valuable to TNA. TNA has been gradually building a roster for years adding what it can when it becomes available. WWE has essentially been working down a super roster from their Monday Night War victory which gave them the opportunity to have pretty much everyone and anyone they wanted, even when they seemed to have little interest in them. If tomorrow WWE were to fire Cena for some insane reason TNA would jump at the chance because he is a huge commodity. If WWE were to fire Shelton Benjamin they might jump at that too because many have deemed him a misused resource for years. Its simply less likely by simple logic that WWE would be excited for Bobby Roode if he was fired tomorrow. And its not as if TNA has reached out to Chris Masters yet or anything. Knock on wood.

Jack was also drunk, angry, and jealous when he said that to Kate. So analyzing his comment as being kind of rude and untrue seems like a logical one. He and Sawyer don't like each other. Sawyer left him to die at least twice and Jack once tortured him. They both love the same woman and Jack once had his heartbroken when he discovered Kate slept with him. He was pissed off that his girl was keeping secrets about her ex, who just happened to be a bad dude he had history with. Toss in that Jack is probably harboring some major guilt about the events of that day from leaving Jin on the boat to leaving Juliette and the others behind to Sawyer jumping and them having no idea if he made it back before the island went away. I don't think Kate's reaction to Locke is unrealistic. I think we the viewers sort of lost track of how much reason the Survivors have to distrust and hate Locke. He's kept important secrets from them, he's endangered them with his missions. He was partly responsible in Boone's death and he killed Naomi when she was trying to get them off the island (which is what Kate wanted). Under his watch dozens were murdered and Claire was lost. He kidnapped Hurley at gun point. He exiled Kate from the Other's town. He made the island disappear stranding dozens who wanted to get off and leaving the 6 to die if it wasn't for Penny's boat. That seems like plenty to not consider Locke a friend or someone you like. He also nearly blew up Hurley in the S1 finale and dropped Kate down into the hatch against her wishes in the S2 opener. He also tried to kill Mikhail in cold blood after stupidly letting him go freely, blowing up his bunker, and lying about it all. Oh, he also blew up the sub that was going to get Jack off the island. Miss anything? And none of that is addressing whatever happened when he came to Kate and Jack that led Jack to leave Kate and Aaron "for their safety." Locke told them something that Jack believes and Kate doesn't and which destroyed their "family." That's a good reason to hate a man even if you discount all that other stuff where he was a lying, manipulative killer and kidnapper who did everything he could to keep them from getting off the island. Kearny wasn't actually at the helicopter, was he? He went chasing Kate and Ben through the forest and then he and Sayid tumbled down a hill. Presuming they left his body where it fell he wouldn't have necessarily been all that close to the chopper or the Other's camp. Also, while he might have known about the elevator all along he also just might have noticed it because Locke and Ben didn't clean up after themselves. Didn't Ben have to move a shelf of flowers to get to it? If it doesn't move back on its own, there you go. The thing that was concealing the elevator was no longer concealing it.

I have absolutely no doubt that Locke will remain a major part of this show. With the continued role of Christian Sheppard, the use of Charlie this season, the general island use of dead folk, the time travel aspect of the show, the non-linear storytelling of the show, and the mystery of what happened on that island, what Locke told everyone when he came to them, what happened between he, Jack, and Kate, and what happened on that island? I would be utterly shocked if Locke wasn't just as much of a regular next season as he has been for 4. If I had to guess next season will tell us two stories happening at two times. We'll get the "present day" of the Oceanic Six and Ben and we'll get flashbacks of the island so that we can see what has happened in the three years since they've left and what the "lots of bad stuff" is that Jack mentioned. And that leaves Locke plenty alive for that plotline. Then Season 6 is probably them back on that island and Locke in the Obi Wan/Christian/Jacob role. Either way Locke's clearly not done because at the very least they have to tell us how he died and why he came back to the island. And since its a show that relies on time travel and flashbacks I'm presuming that won't be told in a short bit of exposition in one episode.

He didn't get caught in a lie. Those are 2 completely different segments. The Beautiful People vs Kim and ODB weeks ago lost viewers. The Beautiful People vs ODB and Roxxi this week drew viewers. If he did anything wrong it was making a conclusion off of ratings jumps too quickly based on too little. Which he seemed to freely acknowledge by saying that the angle might have actually worked and interested people in Roxxi and the girls. But even saying that based off of 1 segment in 1 week would seem like too quick of a conclusion. I think this whole thread is kind of the same thing. There's a basic margin of error in Nielson's ratings and dips and spikes that come and go. There's opposing viewing and different seasons. Even IF there was a real dip seen in the ratings since Joe became champ it could be chalked up to the Office and Lost going into their season finales. Or the weather getting nicer. Or the sports world having a lot happening. Honestly, there's a lot of different possibilities. Its also plenty possible that Joe isn't a draw. But drawing patterns off of minor changes over short periods of time just seems iffy at best to me. But I'm in no way an experienced player in ratings games.

In fairness this is a show that had Locke running around the same day he got shot, Mikhail running around days after seemingly being killed, Naomi running around days after getting a tree branch through her lung, Ben up and about not long after surgery that left him in a wheelchair, and a host of other injuries that SHOULD have kept people down but didn't. Jack is the alpha male so it stands out since they make it part of the story that he's going against "doctor's orders" but being able to be up and walking isn't about him being tough. Its about the island. So I have no more problem suspending disbelief on that then I did Locke's multiple injury rehabs or Mikhail and Naomi.

Does the disease even exist? I long ago presumed it was just the insane delusions of a woman who had her child stolen away moments after giving birth by mysterious tormentors who almost seemed like ghosts. An Other plant in their camp like Ethan and Goodwin seems possible and easily would have pushed paranoia, and even if they were too aware of each other to let a stranger integrate himself into their group its still isolation, hopelessness, and terror from an unseen enemy (and possibly evil smoke monster) to breed paranoia and aggressiveness. None of the plane survivors seem in any way sick (Lock and Jack being the only ones who have acted wildly but both having much story to explain their actions). Desmond seems fine and his partner seemed less sick as frustrated and willing to doom Desmond to save himself. The Others don't seem sick and don't seem in any way concerned about an island illness. And of course Danielle herself does not have the illness she claims to exist. I've just presumed that Danielle's beliefs and actions can be chalked up to a combination of the Others, smoke monster, island ghosts, stolen infant, and paranoia. All the stuff that the plane survivors dealt with but were strangely capable of dealing with, something the tail survivors showed us was not easy to do if you're not lucky enough to have a hunter, surgeon, soldier, fisherman, half a dozen capable people, a cave for shelter, and ready water supply. Not to mention no children and only a pregnant woman, thus giving the people who like to steal children a reason to wait instead of attacking right away.

I know why everyone is saying Claire's dead and its the first thing that I thought, but it just doesn't sit right with me. For one, all the physical interaction she had with Aaron and Sawyer after her "death." Means she's not a ghost but rather a reanimated corpse or a physical manifestation. Which she could be but she woke up groggy and seemingly the same person when she went down, so it just seems odd that the island would animate her dead body and leave in unaware. If it just needed her then why not protect her from dying as it has others? If its just about her delivering a message then what was the point of animating her body when you could have used her ghost? I don't know. She could be dead and there's enough questions and confusion that it can easily fall in line with the island's powers. But it just sits wrong with me. Part of me is thinking she just has come to listen to the island. She's seen plenty of crazy shit. She was brought here by a psychic. More than a lot of them she had an idea this island was special already. Maybe seeing her dad and having him explain some stuff to her (including possibly the fact that they're not the only family on the island) is enough for her to just say "Ok, I'll play. You win. What do we have to do?" Aaron being where he belongs with Sawyer, Jack, and Co could just be a miscalculation on the island's part. They may just be trying to get the baby to safety and they trust that Sawyer, Jack and Co will protect him. Meanwhile the violence is likely to be headed towards Ben, Locke, and the cabin. The pilot tossing the satellite phone and Jack believing he wants them to follow could just screw up the island's plans. The pilots gets half a dozen people off the island including the baby and pregnant woman in the midst of some hairy stuff. Claire, Christian, and whoever never get a chance to retrieve Aaron and don't calculate for Sawyer handing the baby over to Kate and she choosing to leave with him. Locke moves the island so the pilot can't return for anyone else and Aaron and the island are separate. Jack and Hurley are getting messages because the baby should be there, and maybe Jack as well with his family. I don't know. Its Lost.

Angle was counting his World Tag Titles and World X Title. 1 IWGP 2 TNA 1 WCW 4 WWF/E 1 "World Heavyweight" 9 World Titles by traditional standards. He got it up to 12 by taking the titles literally and treating World Tag Team Titles as they're advertised. 1 X 1 TNA Tag 1 WWE Tag Team Intercontinental or European titles would clearly not qualify as they are specifically not "World" titles. He's at 9 for "World Titles" as we usually refer them. The top title of the company. And even that is kind of iffy since the IWGP title had been stripped from Brock before he lost it to Angle and his 2 TNA wins came when he was rewarded the title after he and Sting both had submissions on the champ but was then stripped of it and won the vacant title a month later. Needless to say, Angle's number is inflated (although that stuff happens I guess as Orton has 2 title victories in one night and HHH got a 2 hour title reign on a recent WWE PPV).

The last 3-5 weeks of buildup that have been about eliminating the drama and extra curriculars. Still, I'm scared that she'll step in, Angle will be distracted, and it will take away from the match. But I also think there's a good chance that she'll just play a side role that they play off of on Impact without factoring into the main event, just as they've played it the last month.

I am so relieved that Karen wasn't on that show. I actually don't mind her as a performer but I was so scared that she'd be inserted last second into the Joe/Angle story by revealing or teasing her new boyfriend. There's still a chance for them to do it during Lockdown but that was one of the last hurdles I was scared about with this match. I also was worried that the contract signing would end in the cliched fashion so I actually was excited when they just ended civily and there was no fight or broken table. Creed didn't do much for me and it wasn't a great debut, but he didn't look bad and I did see better at BFG. So I remain interested. I think he's gonna walk out the X Champ and with the silly Creed gimmick gone I really am looking forward to that serious dose of wrestling in the X Division. Overall it was a good show but not a great one. It was the buildup to Lockdown and the promos and video packages did an excellent job at that. There was some good ringwork from MCMG and Roxxi and the other matches were nice and solid. But nothing that will change the world. But I thought there was very good mic work from guys like Angle, Cage, and Bubba and just general good build. The Petey/Steiner stuff felt odd and maybe a bit long just because it doesn't seem to factor into Lockdown and the rest of the show was all about Lockdown. But who knows, maybe they're the favorites for that "Cuffed Cage" match which makes Queen of the Cage look perfectly normal. But it felt like something that was out of place on such a Lockdown push. I enjoyed the show but it didn't leave me with much beyond "I WANT TO WATCH LOCKDOWN!" Which was obviously the goal. If I was watching Lockdown at home I'd probably turn this on at 6 PM to just casually re-watch as preview, because that's really what it was.

That's my post up above, for the record. I was deleted this morning in the mass purging and I made that and a few other posts under a new account. Apparently when they reset things the new account got deleted but the posts remained. Which gave me quite a headache for awhile because I also happened to have changed my password and email since whenever the backup was made. And apparently left phantom posts from accounts that never technically existed. Or at least they're listed as no name, no member group, and no post count as best as I can tell.