LuckyLopez

And Wallace genuinely does seem to like him as a person, as most of his employees do. They've made it clear to us that Dunder Miflin is struggling madly and Scranton is basically keeping it afloat. And Michael's abilities as a salesman are clearly a big part of that, as are Dwight's who has show great loyalty to him. Its really not unfathomable to think that if Michael left that the company could lose enough business to be hurt. And even if they weren't we've seen Michael draw in new accounts over the course of the show, an asset they'd lose (and possibly lose to a competitor). They want him there, and may even need him. And Wallace clearly likes the guy. They just need to find a way to control him and every "subtle" way failed. And his ego is so wrapped up in being "The World's Greatest Boss" (and everything else) that we see how he deals with it when the company gives him no choice.

Yeah, he won me over with "You condescending son of a bitch, Sting!" Made it feel right that Foley really was understandable in hitting Sting with the chair. Sting's pity insulted him. I don't know how I feel about the Joe stuff with Bashir. I know how I feel about it the last month with Steiner. There's some kind of line that exists for me with what sort of violence wrestlers can do before it all just seems goofy and fake and contrived. HHH busting into Orton's home and Matt Hardy trying to run people off the road crosses it for me. Joe threatening Steiner with a huge knife did and Joe dragging him away and returning with no Steiner but dried up blood on his blade DEFINITELY did. But dragging some dude off, stringing him up, and caning him? I think I'm ok with that. Which is not to say I think it made Joe look good, because I don't know. But I didn't think it made him look bad. And I thought it was a definite step up from his antics with Steiner. So there's probably a case of if it was stupid its getting a pass because it wasn't as stupid as Sunday's thing. Joe had a weird bit of exposition during the beatdown I kind of liked though where he explained to Bashir that he was doing this to him because no one liked him or wanted him in TNA. It was almost justification for no one caring he was strung up. I was joking with friends that Impact had a weird special Exposition theme. Cornette and AJ attempted to rationalize the Legends Title. AJ was trying to save the angle by acknowledging that the "Frontline" failed and that the "Originals" had to step up. Foley explained his motivations. The Beautiful People even addressed the absence of Cute Kip. It was like for 1 day TNA tried to explain any questions they saw present and it made us chuckle.

Agreed. Face stables are basically hard because mostly all they want is to be left alone. They're brought together out of a need for survival so all that matters to them is stopping the evil force. They either fail (in which they look weak) or they succeed (in which they have no reason to remain together or present their force). And if the evil heels just end up walking away no worse for wear then there's no great victory. Personally I long for more face alliances because I think its missing from wrestling. We see heels ally together for various reasons but there's really a bunch of faces who just seem to respect or like each other so they help each other out. Because it would make storytelling a little more difficult. And many bookers (Russo and TNA included) don't seem capable of dealing beyond the cliches.

In fairness, without looking at spoilers, knowing TNA and wrestling it seems just as likely that its ridiculous hyperbole for an underwhelming main event or a 3 minute match that ends in a giant clusterfuck. So, I mean, if it actually IS one of their biggest main events then they're dumb for not building it up properly. But if its just stupid hyperbole then its just a shameless and stupid attempt to draw in people with a mystery because the reality isn't half as interesting. TNA likes its shameless hyperbole and false promises.

I enjoyed everything after Joe/Steiner. The tag title match's ending was screwy. Sting got gassed. But I thought AJ/Booker was a nice match and the the other two were enjoyable even with the problems. And Ultimate X was plenty of fun with a few new spots and one that we've seen before but is still pretty amazing with that dive. But the 90 minutes before that was BAD. Ranging from boring and pointless matches/segments with undercarders to the horror that was the ODB segment. And really, the final 90 minutes would have had to have been great to wash the taste of that away. So its hard not to call that a bad PPV. It was kind of a reverse show in that regard. A lot of TNA PPVs (and WCW and WWE even for that matter) run strong undercards and bad upper cards. A bit of a reverse there but the top half wasn't strong enough to win out.

They never bothered to explain it so its not like this is really a defense, but TNA's recognized the title for months and booked a number of title defenses. So really, its a HUGE logical "WTF?!" but its one that I stopped by the time a referee was wrestling for the belt. Actually this defense probably makes more sense than the past ones since they at least ran the angle where Cornette manipulated Booker into signing the contract. Still completely screwy but less screwy than why Booker would defend the title vs a referee.

This PPV really has been just plain bad. From the pure crap that was the ODB segment to the pointlessness of the Magnus/EY match and the Bashir segment to the stupid Joe/Steiner booking. The best part has been a completely forgettable and short opener. The only positive I've seen on this show was AJ telling Rhino and the Dudleyz that they shouldn't be fighting for the Frontline and it should be the "young lions" in the fight. But this PPV has gone so poorly I'm now expecting AJ to lose in 4 minutes.

That ODB segment was beyond a doubt one of the worst segments I've ever seen in wrestling history. I really wouldn't even begin to argue if it was deemed the worst ever. It was just horrible and would never end.

The match was Lethal and Creed vs Steiner and Booker with the two teams getting to pick 2 more partners for an 8 man tag. MCMG as the Mafia's choices was pretty obvious since they're feuding with Lethal and Creed. It was just a one time teaming but Tenay made a point to say how they're "Frontline in name only" and no Frontline member should be "bailing out" the Mafia when they couldn't find partners. The Guns have been heels for all intents and purposes for months now. The Frontline is weird. At this stage it doesn't even appear to be a stable at all, its just some kind of random tagging like roster breakdowns in video games that are just used to sort people. There's no discernible leader. Joe and AJ don't interact with them anymore. The lower guys are feuding with each other. Rhino and the Dudleyz are just doing their own thing. They don't do those group locker room skits anymore. Its weird. I kind of assumed that Joe and AJ would be Lethal and Creed's partners and that would help clarify the Frontline breakdown. But at this stage I really think TNA would be best served to just blow the stable up to clean up this mess and maybe save face for the face side of this feud. Joe and AJ coming out to open Impact after successful PPV wins and just saying "The Frontline failed!" and regrouping. Officially kick out the Guns, shed Rhino and the Dudleyz if they're not part of the story anymore, ignore ODB was ever there because it never made sense in the first place. Just isolate the group to whoever the hell you want to be in it. And IF the Frontline vs Mafia is the Lethal Lockdown match then it makes sense to do it using that as the motive. Regroup into a smaller team to go into the war in the cage.

Agreed with all. The card looks good, the booking was not. Sting/Angle had some momentum but once they did the stupid ending for the empty arena match it just sort of... dragged. And Eric Young vs the bodyguard as the final build for it really hammers home how underwhelming the last couple of weeks of build were. The Ultimate X match is exciting but it was basically just Suicide making random attacks on people until he was booked into the match. Beer Money vs Dudleyz is fine, but yeah. Its either a title change or the second DQ ending to one of these matches in 2 weeks. Joe vs Steiner has potential and will probably just be glorified squash for Joe but the "real Samoa Joe" has been at best underwhelming and at worse laughable. Even if you don't see a penis tattoo, a plastic knife, and a silly man making ridiculous death threats you're not exactly seeing a bad ass. AJ vs Booker actually was a fine build to me but it wasn't exactly interesting. Just Booker being crazy and AJ attacking him. Simple and forgettable, but effective I suppose. It didn't get bogged down with stupidity at least. Morgan/Abyss has been lost behind "Dr. Stevie" and Abyss' "girlfriend." I assume the match could be good and Morgan SHOULD probably go over but Stevie could show up and the whole Lauren "girlfriend" thing makes this feel like the best candidate for 2009's "crappy midcard feud bogged down by stupid 3rd party drama." The 3LK breakup over Bob Armstrong and Kip James; The Roode/Young feud over Traci and slave contracts and EY's friend; The Lethal/Dutt feud over Val. Seems like every spring/summer TNA needs a stupid midcard feud that lasts forever because of a 3rd character no one really cares about. I'm actually kind of really interested in the 6 Knockout match. I've liked what I've seen from Rayne and it looks like she might give the Beautiful People some seriously improved wrestling ability. And the faces are all pretty talented even if their characters leave something to be desired. Honestly, the only real problem I have with that feud are silly names like Mi Pi Sexy and The Governor. It looks like a good show and I will be watching but agreed with everyone else. You'd never know that from the TV (and I actually thought the last month of Impact was a definite improvement over the last few months, but it still wasn't much more than "ok" at its best).

I would assume that WWE reached out to her but who knows? She could have committed to Booker and feel wrong about going back on it. Money talks and WM 25 is certainly appealing but sometimes integrity or loyalty wins out. Still, I'd assume WWE would want her and that they could offer enough money to make her have to turn Booker down, and Booker understand the situation.

Didn't Matt Hardy recently say that he'd never been a World Champion like his brother? Seems like that would have put the final nail in the coffin to any doubt the ECW title is just a midcard belt.

I have no idea what its supposed to mean but its the term Joe's been using since his "return." So it wasn't Tenay's idea. Just him using Joe's line. Part of me dreads whatever Samoans are free agents showing up as a new stable, or something.

It probably wouldn't hurt to do a midcard Lethal Lockdown this year. Something like Beer Money, Matt Morgan, and the Machine Guns vs Abyss, Rhino, Lethal Consequences, and Sewell or something. They could be really crazy and do a Knockout Lethal Lockdown. That might be interesting. Beautiful People, Madison Rayne, Kongtourage, Taylor, Roxxi, "the Governor", ODB, Tracy. Along with the possibility of an unmasked Melissa or the rumored signed Sarah Stock. It might be a good way to get the women on the card and the roster's big enough that they could still have Kong defend the title. And if not Kong in Lethal Lockdown has a certain appeal. Which leaves Beer Money free to defend the tag titles and the Guns/Lethal Consequences to play with the X title. Could make for a strong card.

Yeah, I don't think anyone TNA has cut is really a big loss. Petey's more or less been a jobber the last few years with sporadic X division runs. Dutt has been little more than an X Division jobber. And Rave and Hoyt were jobbers. It just seems like TNA trimming the fat of guys they know they don't have a lot of use for and really have no reason to be paying. Whether that's because they're just trying to save money in general, are making room for additions (be that the knockouts who have been added, indie players, or recent WWE releases like London, Burke, and Dinsmore), or just being fiscally responsible. It may stink for someone who is a fan of Petey or Dutt but its hard to really argue they were going anywhere in TNA. EDIT: That means Dutt leaves never having won the X title, which is a bit of a dubious achievement for a guy who joined the company 4-5 years ago right in the X Title mix.

He knew where Eloise Hawkings was but that doesn't necessarily mean he knew what was inside the church. As you suggested if he did know then it not only makes him following them pointless but makes his years of searching for the island seem kind of odd. Its possible he didn't know what was in there, didn't know how to work it, or wasn't allowed to by whatever those "rules" are that he and Ben mentioned. In which case just following Ben, Desmond, and the O6 makes sense because it may provide him with an opportunity to pick up more information. Or when he sees that the O6 are all on the same plane in the same section to stick a guy in that section. Maybe he thought they were going to do something in Ghana, maybe he suspected that they might be doing what they were doing. But if they have info he can't get to for whatever reason, following them makes sense.

I definitely enjoyed that show more than I have Impact in quite awhile. There were iffy or bad parts of the show but nothing that outright sucked. The wrestling was solid/good. As said the whole show built to the main event but without overpowering things. The rest of the card was still able to have its issues and carry a little importance to their stuff even if it had nothing to do with the Mafia. And I did more or less enjoy the fight. The ending just really fizzled the whole thing out for me. After a good build and a good fight I expected a pin or someone beat down or a turn or something. But they were basically at the same place they were at the start of the show/end of last week's. Felt like a poor payoff to a good show.

I should clarify. "VKM" was unquestionably stupid. I was just saying the rough idea of it had been successful in the past. This effort was however a horrible and pointless version that made them and TNA look bad. And perhaps all that follow would have the same effect because they'd just be biting off DX. And yeah, I do get that TNA and WWE aren't equals so there's a different feel to it than WCW/WWF but I don't know. I guess I'm weird. I have no delusions that TNA is near WWE and I personally hope they realize they're as far away as they are so they never do something supremely stupid business wise like moving to Monday nights. But I guess as a wrestling fan I don't really tend to look at the level of the company as much as the quality within. Production values don't bug me as much as some. Size doesn't. Names don't. But I totally acknowledge I am probably in the minority and that the "casual fan" may have the opposite view. I see what you're saying about the individuals celebrating their WWE accomplishments but at the same time that sort of strikes me as a problem of the individuals. If Team 3D go on and on about their past in ECW and WWE and it makes them sound old and past their prime... its probably because they are. Mick Foley talking about what he did 10 or 20 years ago may feel played out but it felt that way to me the last X years in WWE. So it kind of feels like a double edged sword to me. If Angle has value to your company his resume is part of that value. If the overwhelming majority of his resume occurred in WWE what can be done about that? Its ignore his resume thus devaluing his worth or acknowledge and apparently undermining your place. And its tough to compare the TNA accomplishments of a guy vs the WWE/WCW/ECW accomplishments if he's been in TNA for only a short while. Angle, Booker, The Dudleyz, Nash, Foley... there's no two ways about it. Their careers have been in WWE and other companies and TNA is only a late stop for them at the end of their careers. And while I'll agree with those who say TNA may have too much focus on the stars of the past at the moment, I do think there's clear value guys like Angle, Booker, and Nash have to the company. Even if that's not as a main event stable dominating the roster. Obviously I guess that may be the heart of the issue. Am I right in assuming that if Booker's talking about his past was followed by AJ beating him clean that it would theoretically serve to put AJ (and through him TNA) over? That beating an X-time Champ who competed at the main event level in WWE would theoretically help? But obviously TNA largely has not done this, and when they have they've had a pile of issues with it. TNA's never seemed terribly good at booking its faces in its 6 years as its always seemed to favor the "Evil heel champ with dominant stable" story that has been told through a large majority of those 6 years.

You know, I never really understood the whole "TNA makes themselves look bad by talking about WWE" thing. I mean, I guess I understand the logic of it. Acknowledging the value of the competitor risks undermining your value. Its certainly the approach WWE has taken during its whole run. Ignore what happens outside these walls. But that's always annoyed me. It annoys me that R-Truth isn't acknowledged as a former WWE Tag Champion and NWA World Champion. It annoys me that Chris Harris' 5 years or so as one half of the best tag team in the business was tossed out the window. It annoys me that the far past only gets mentioned when WWE deems in convenient. So I appreciate it when TNA acknowledges the past between wrestlers or doesn't cut short a wrestler's resume because it happened in a company they don't want to mention. Because when I see BG James and Jeff Jarrett in a scene together I too think of the Roadie and Double J. And it bugs me if Cena tags with Carlito a year after Carlito stabbed him. Of course cutting a promo on how much ECW pales in comparison to the "real ECW" or having VKM call out Vince on TV week in and week out may be too far (although there's probably SOME debate to that since DX did great with a similar idea). So I totally get that there's a limit here. And that "acknowledging the wrestling world" can turn into "spending too much time on the wrestling world." But I don't know. I never understood why acknowledging that what happened in WWE matters amounts to putting WWE above you. TNA has always been booked on the notion that they acknowledge the past. NWA, WCW, ECW. WWE is part of that. Of course maybe its just me not getting it and WWE being "right." Or at least enough fans agreeing with WWE's way of seeing the business and me just being on the outside looking in. Because I certainly know enough fans who sort of play to the "If it doesn't happen in WWE it doesn't matter" idea that WWE likes. So maybe it just all amounts to people thinking that its only 2 options. Either you pretend you're alone in the world to protect your standing, or you recognize what's out there and undermine your place in the wrestling world.

The one thing that struck me the last few episodes is that Widmore HAS to have followed Desmond, no? Aside from the fact that simply sending a guy to follow Desmond means he can locate his daughter who has been missing for 3 years... logic dictates that Desmond coming to see him about Faraday is connected to the island. And if Widmore's goal is to find the island than following Desmond may well lead to that. He even knows exactly where Desmond is going because he gave him the address. So yeah, I'm with the people who have suggested that the new guy is Widmore's man who followed Desmond and in turn followed Ben and O6 when it seemed clear something was up. To that end I would think that Widmore's people would logically have been who got in Ben's way that night. Whether they stopped him from killing Penny (who Widmore was now watching) or just went after Ben because of their history, it seems likely to me that the bruises and blood came at the hand of Widmore's men instead of Desmond. Either that or Widmore's not really trying that hard to find his daughter or the island. Because keeping tabs on the 06, following Desmond, and generally paying attention seems bare minimum. Widmore even knew Sun was traveling to LA and pursuing Ben, and assuming he was working with her may well have been the person who sent her the photos of Ben and Jack together.

I agree wholeheartedly with this.

Putting too much thought to how the folks on the island survived or 3 years of skipping seems to miss the basic element of the skipping. I kind of hate sci fi in general and don't have much experience with time travel stories, so you can correct me if I'm wrong. But as best as I can figure there's no reason to believe that 3 years for the O6 will be 3 years for Sawyer, Juliet, and Co. Assuming this is the timeline where Point A is where the O6 escaped, Ben got thrown off the island, and the island started skipping... and Point B is where the O6/Ben/Locke return... A --------------------------- B It doesn't have to be 3 years for the Island because its skipping through time. As long as their last skip leaves them at Point B, they're good. It could take 3 years, 3 weeks, or 30 years. It would all amount to the same thing for time travelers. Ben himself hasn't experienced 3 years, has he? Didn't he skip forward a year or so when he left the island? So 3 years for Jack is 2 years for Ben. Locke could have jumped forward 2 years and Sawyer/Juliet could spend a handful of days. The nature of the story seems to give Lost carte blanche on this subject. If they want I suppose Locke could kick the island back on its "proper" track. But if they want the island could skip back to 5 minutes before the skipping started and the end result would be that in 5 minutes Juliet and Sawyer would be the only versions of themselves on the island and they'd be 5 minutes older than they "should" be.

The PPV doesn't do a lot for me either but I'm mildly curious to see how things play out on a lot of stuff. Petey/Steiner has me mildly curious as to whether its a MEM squash or if Petey gets a win to try and help him. I don't want to dismiss Magnus on 1 Shark Boy squash so I'm mildly interested to see him in a 2nd match that might get time, especially since I suspect it might be Daniels/Suicide who answers the call so if he can't do something good with Daniels then maybe I can write him off. Abyss/Morgan could end up a good bloody ordeal and could be a moment for Morgan. The tag and X title matches could be good matches and both seem like good shots at title changes (not that I want to see EY win the title but I'll at least care to find out if he does). Joe presumably will appear and do something, but who knows what? As much as the main event sucks and the Angle/Sting stuff has been telegraphed there's a silly part of me that thinks things can get interesting. Angle talking the Dudleyz into joining him making the match a 3-on-1 won't do anything for wrestling quality, but if I get really crazy I can imagine Angle winning the belt and Foley coming out with Hernandez to get a real world title match. Not that I really expect it to happen but it seems at least plausible. I wouldn't pay for this PPV but it probably has enough I'm mildly curious about to check out. Of course that doesn't help TNA if I'm not willing to drop $30.

Respectfully, that's just not true at all, cabbageboy. The Guns joined the Frontline before Foley was involved. They ran a story on the very first episode that the Frontline/Originals formed. Joe and AJ made a challenge to the lockerroom. Young, Creed, Lethal, Petey, and ODB stepped forward. The Guns then came out to mock Joe and AJ. By the end of the episode the Guns apologized to Joe and AJ and said they were in, the clear implication being that they simply didn't want to be stuck with the Mafia as well as Joe and AJ as enemies. Even though it was the Guns themselves who made them enemies at the start of the show. When Foley started taking up with the Frontline the Guns were already there with them, and THAT'S how the Guns/Foley thing started because they were constantly disrespecting him. IF the Guns were only in the Frontline because Foley threatened to fire them if they weren't? Yeah, that would be a horrible story. But that's never happened. Foley threatened the Guns when he thought they might pull a "finger of doom" in the X title match. And he's chewed them out a few other times over their disrespect and lack of support. But its all been within the context of the Guns in the Frontline or the Guns doing bad towards management. I don't recall a single occasion in which Foley forced them to remain in the stable and I KNOW they joined of their own free will before Foley got involved. And I don't know, I don't buy the last part of your argument. I agree that there's something screwy about a group this side allying when they are in competition with each other. But I don't see how that means that its ok for the Guns to routinely lie and mock the Frontline and to watch as Creed gets beat down and injured. But at the same time your argument sounds like one that calls out most every stable in wrestling history. After all, the "ultimate goal" of each wrestler is supposed to be to win "the title" so 2 singles wrestlers allied together are forced to either compromise their goals or compete against each other. But that's not a problem created with the Frontline, its just a problem with stables in general. The problem with the Frontline is of course that its too large and cumbersome, and that for all their numbers they've consistently failed at the very goal they united for. But of course, in that regard the Guns' inaction is at least in part part of that problem. After all, while Morgan, Booker, and Steiner were able to take out Young, Creed, and Lethal last week... in theory the Guns would have given the Frontline an edge that could have won the fight (you know, in kayfabe logic divorced from our realization that TNA loves to book the faces getting beat down). EDIT: I'm very wordy so I apologize if that looks like a rant.

I find it hard to believe that the story is really half as difficult to understand as you're making it out to be. They are allies. The Guns failed to help Creed and Lethal as they were beat down by the Mafia. The Guns watched Creed and Lethal get beat down by Beer Money. The Guns took advantage of Creed's injury (that they watched happen) by wrestling Lethal in a handicap match. But none of this is any way heelish because Creed and Lethal did something arguably heelish to a 3rd party a month ago? At most that makes the story 2 tweeners acting heelish on 2 tweeners they are supposed to be allied with. TNA gives more than its share of things for people to criticize. The Dudleys in the main event. The telegraphed Sting/Angle stuff. The poor booking of the Frontline and faces in general. LAX's seemingly bimonthly appearances when they seemed poised to be big players in the stories. The Governor. The wrestling referee. Tenay and West, of course. Mick Foley's sudden random disappearances and Cornette's fluctuating power. Why folks love to go crazy making MORE things to criticize I'll never understand. But then every debate I've seen you engage in in this forum over the last few weeks has inevitably led to you insulting anyone who disagrees with you by letting us know how amusing you find that anyone actually see TNA in a different light as you.