Mos_Def

For the most part Memphis is just low-rent and so deeply southern-fried that it could only be tolerated in small doses. It was racial. Outside of Lawler the wrestling wasnt great. They had some of the stupidest, lamest gimmicks ever conceived and they had this horrible penchant for siphoning all the talent out of their heels so that they were all cookie-cutter bastard types that had to rely on cheating to win. The glass ceiling was built into their infrastructure. Memphis was either for washouts and local rednecks or for guys who were up and coming and would leave before they arrived because the conditions were so bad. Its sad to hear over and over that guys were just starving there. Yeah, but a lot of guys learned how to work, and personally I think Southern style rocks my socks. I guess it depends on your taste. What types of wrestling do you like? Well, my favorite territory of all time, if you want to call it that, is Jim Crockett Promotions from 85-88 so I share your love of southern-stylized work, its just that Memphis was really backwards and backwoods for the most part. They definitely had their moments tho, some great matches and angles...overall tho? Naw, not my shit.

For the most part Memphis is just low-rent and so deeply southern-fried that it could only be tolerated in small doses. It was racial. Outside of Lawler the wrestling wasnt great. They had some of the stupidest, lamest gimmicks ever conceived and they had this horrible penchant for siphoning all the talent out of their heels so that they were all cookie-cutter bastard types that had to rely on cheating to win. The glass ceiling was built into their infrastructure. Memphis was either for washouts and local rednecks or for guys who were up and coming and would leave before they arrived because the conditions were so bad. Its sad to hear over and over that guys were just starving there.

I believe his MS has greatly affected his memory. Damn, didnt know that. He of all people should know better than to throw around the 'I hope you die, shit' that he was hitting guys like Flair with.

I think the failure of the turn had a lot to do with the WWF's lack of commitment to it. It was really a good shocker, and the motivation behind it was great --- WWF racism. That shit could have been dynamite. Instead of turning up the heat on it, they kinda shied away from it almost immediately. Internally they definitely had second thoughts and it showed.

A babyface Tully Blanchard doesnt sound right to me.

Fantastics shoot was pretty disappointing as well. Very casual. Robert Fuller was solid...he's a great story teller but I dont really give a damn about old school Memphis. At least in large doses. Ole was funny, its like that crusty fool just emerged from a cave. So crotchety. He didnt remember much about his career, even major moments like the prolonged Sawyer/Rich feud.

Although including Douglas wasnt in the spirit of the thread title, I invoked his name because at one point fans, and himself, hyped him up as one of the better wrestlers in the business, when in fact he has always pretty sorry. If he wasnt considered good, why would there be this incessant whining over his "misuse" by the WWF? As far as Dibiase, I concede that he is technically good and sound. He's talented, but where are all his great matches? This is a guy that people have called the best worker in his era. He didnt do anything great in the WWF, and I have yet to see what was so special about him in mid-south. Youtube me something from him.

I couldnt believe he hit us with the whole "my book is coming out soon" line. A Wrath book?!? I thought the wrestling book trend/scam/hustle went out in 2005. Yeah, it was a disappointing shoot. It seemed like he couldnt wait to get out of that studio and was genuinely uncomfortable.

Where?

I think the fact that the fans rejected him from jump deminishes the thought that he was this major talent. Hulk Hogan endorsed his ass for fucks sake and the fans were booing him out of the building. Hogan could have told fans to smear dog shit out their faces and they would have obeyed. Because he was a heel, they should've never made an Elvis imposter a face to begin with. To say, HTM wasn't a good IC Champ, is just dumb, he drew more money then any other guy that held title, and when he lost the damn thing, it meant something. I don't think he is the best IC Champ, but he damn sure was one of the best. I have no problem with him calling himself saying he was the greatest of all time. When they initially tried pushing him as a face, smart guy, they werent angling him as an Elvis impersonator and a strong case can be made that the fans rejected him because of his lack of talent.

I think the fact that the fans rejected him from jump deminishes the thought that he was this major talent. Hulk Hogan endorsed his ass for fucks sake and the fans were booing him out of the building. Hogan could have told fans to smear dog shit out their faces and they would have obeyed.

WWF lost credibility with him as champ for so long --- he was bad and the fans knew it. Fans were literally begging for him to lose every night. Apter mags used to ridicule Vince over HTM. Fans legitimately hated him and that fact that, as previously mentioned, he never came anywhere near that level again is testament to how much he sucked. HTM was a two-month joke that severly overstayed its welcome. As a person? Way too much of a mark for himself and its not warranted. He's a funny, entertaining guy at times, but he is also pretty mean spirited. Almost the exact stereotype of a living old school wrestler.

Flair is one for me, for obvious reasons. One guy I've always thought was criminally overrated was Ted Dibiase. He was skilled, but how many great matches did he ever have? All of his great matches are supposedly in some hole in the wall in Louisiana --- in front of two hundred people (i.e, they never existed). People have consistently called him an all time great. Dont see it. He was boring to me. Curt Henning. Again, for somebody that is considered great, his body of work and resume is lacking. Although, he was hurt for the bulk of his prime. Shane Douglas. mechanical and stiff. Was fairly light, but he worked like he was 50 pounds heavier. A lot of slow, plodding matches.

We can both be right because the Dark Carnival was right before he left, but i remember people being real excited about his ECW return...He just completely disintegrated there.

Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but I think you're a little off. Windham was considered one of the top 5 workers in the U.S, or at least in the discussion in the late-80's. He was a shell of himself by the '90s and pretty much considered an also ran. Same with Steamboat, as he was no longer considered elite by that point. Its not to say that they were terrible by any stretch, but they had definitely seen their better days by that point. I think you need to re-evaluate how you assign "great" to things. As far as Jesse goes, Foley said it best, when he said that he was there to basically tell Verne Gagne stories. He added nothing. Even Raven admits he was terrible in ECW and he completely flopped in the WWF. That pop that you speak of was probably one of his last career highlights. All downhill.

He had his moments, but to me he seemed to be an '80s manager and personality that had a hard time adjusting to the '90s. I thought the advent of RAW was the turning point, as he seemed out of place at times as opposed to the '80s when he and Jesse were the gold standards.

Dont get the King Bookha hate at all either. Shit busted me up EVERYTIME I saw it. My picks: Nikita Koloff after he grew out his hair and started "appreciating" the American way of life. L.O.D after "Rocco". Never taken seriously again. Jerry Lawler. I thought he was hilarious at the booth before that embarrassing "kat" saga and him basically crawling back with his tail between his legs in 2001. Ol' Girl took his balls with her. Bam Bam Bigelow after signing with WCW. Was awful immediately once he started getting those Turner checks. Barry Windham: Never regained the momentum after his failed Widowmaker run. (Reasons why he quit, none withstanding he was never interesting after) Bobby Eaton: That boring, milquetoast as fuck Mr. White bread face run in '91 Bobby Heenan: Game passed him by once Raw debuted. Mick Foley: First retirement and going back on his word immediately after: Integrity took a hit. Raven: Terrible ECW run in 99-00 Jesse Ventura: Was pitiful the moment he signed with WCW. Ultimo Dragon: Falling on his ass at Wrestlemania summed up what had become of his career. Ricky Steamboat: "the Jobber...um Dragon" Rock N Roll Express" Quitting the NWA in 1987. Fantastics replaced them and the Rockers made them look old overnight.

What the Fuck is up with his eye?

Dusty did have a big ego and was enamored with maintaining his position, but what many fail to point out is that many of the Dusty finishes were the result of having a heel champion who refused to do a significant job for about seven years, and who frequently pulled power plays. Had to do something to keep fans interested. Starrcade '87 is a direct manifestation of that struggle as both Dusty and Flair wanted the show to be about themselves. So the natural switch of the tag belts to the Warriors fell by the wayside. Vince helped to kill that show, but their egos guaranteed that the show, and ensuing business would flop.

Great call. It was long overdue, and the show was in Chicago for Mideon's sake! One of the most mind numbing decisions of all time. Sure Flair and Dusty had something to do with it, but it doesnt take away from its pure stupidity.

Berlyn - Stupid gimmick, whose debut was cribbed from WWF. Duggan sandbag sealed his fate Ultimo Dragon (WWE) . Supposedly Vince was unfamiliar with his work and eventually was left unimpressed after weeks of vignettes. Thought they were getting another Mysterio Highlanders - Face it, these cats suck. What were they thinking? Glacier - Classic flop. Kronik (WWE) - Infamous match with Taker/Kane stopped their push cold. Taka Michinoku - Hilarously forced himself to give Taka a push in response to WCW's red hot cruiser division. But soon enough, Vince gave in to his anti-cruiser impulses.

Not everything has to be a conspiracy, I dont think Vince gives a rats ass about TNA. Lets keep the focus on Harris' lack of focus in that he probably blew one of the best opportunities of his career.

As everybody has reported, WCW apparently reached a deal with Bret Hart for Bret to appear on the Clash of Champions live broadcast on January 21st with his WWF Intercontinental belt. This was of course meant to be a retaliatory blow against the WWF for using the NWA belt when Flair jumped. Bret thought that his contract was up, but, in fact, he can't give notice for another few months and had to back out of the deal when he realized this. Bret knew that he would be dropping the belt to the Mountie in Springfield so that the title could be passed to Roddy Piper. Bret has been promised the IC Title back at WrestleMania, but that seems kind of unlikely, unless he turns heel. In the mean time, WCW insists that Bret is going to come in later this year, and if he does in fact give notice to the WWF, I'm sure we'll know since his push will match that of the Berzerker. http://rspw.org/tidbits/tidbits.920130

Okay.. i've never heard this one. That's because it is untrue. Lie. Bret misread his contract and was negotiating with WCW in 1992 while still WWF intercontinental champion. Only reason he didnt jump was because he was still contractually obligated. Meltzer was the one who initially reported this!!!

First of all, we're just going by the facts that were presented in this thread. Dont worry, this isn't another conspiracy against Bret *rolls eyes*. In fact, most people here are defending him, including myself. Oh, and make no mistake about it, this incident has a lot to do with the ranking. Just listen or watch any Hart interview with his incessant self-congratulatory nature and his Canadian sized "everything I did was the greatest" ego and you will know for a fact that his whole self image is wrapped up in his wrestling career. Nothing wrong with it, I guess, but its impossible to deny. The Hart Foundation shoot is hilarious in the way he kept cutting off Niedhart and going on and on about himself. On to Meltzer, yeah he's covered for Hart over the years, to the detriment of his 'journalistic integrity'. Exhibit A is the SS '97 fallout piece which was just comically one-sided throughout. He didnt once try to take an objective view and blatantly left out key facts --- most importantly that Bret Hart tried to run out on the WWF, to WCW, with the Intercontinental belt in 1992. Plus he always made Hart out to be the innocent victim in political wars with Michaels, Nash, Hall...ext. As to why Meltzer has changed his tune recently, who knows. Could be that Hart doesnt have any more pull in the business anymore, or perhaps they had a falling out. Whatever the case is, it doesnt change the fact that Meltzer was a glorified P.R agent for Hart and especially Flair for years.