Cheech Tremendous

But how can we relate the game to the Ravens? That's what we all are dying to hear.

I've never read the graphic novel, but I thoroughly enjoyed V for Vendetta. I know they messed with some of the original storytelling, but do you honestly think that it hurt the movie? I am going to try and read Watchmen by next week to get an idea of how it would adapt to the screen.

Joker looks fantastic in all these pictures. I don't know what some of you are smoking.

Are we talking about the same Devil Rays? They are going to be much closer to third than last in that division. Is it better to be buried in the bullpen of a big market team, or have a chance to star on one of the most exciting young teams in baseball? I don't know how you can label someone braindead for taking less money for a job that he found more attractive. They don't all have to chase the money, you know.

Tampa Bay Rays sign Troy Percival to a two-year, $8 million deal. Incentives could push it to $10 million. The Yankees were offering more money, but the Rays are giving him the opportunity to close.

It's definitely not fool proof, but it's a step in the right direction. It lacks park adjustments. It measures in terms of percentages instead of runs. It has nothing in terms of win probability. Flaws are there indeed, but measuring every play and using that to evaluate a fielder is a breakthrough that stats guys have been waiting to have for years. I obviously don't have access to any of their proprietary information regarding how they collect or interpret the data, but I would think that all the things mentioned in your post would be recorded. The FB measures outcomes... it wouldn't matter if you got there by positioning, accuracy or arm strength. Did you or did you not make the play? What did other players in the league at your position do with the exact same batted ball in the same situation? How do you compare to your peers at fielding this play? The thing that I find intriguing about there info is that it seems to match the player's reputations well and compares favorably with THT's RZR/OOZ numbers. It passes the sniff test. It's not like BP's defensive numbers, which never seem to make a lick of sense.

Subjective? It's the farthest thing from subjective. Did you not read that every single batted ball is charted and recorded into a computer system. For instance, a ball hit towards a third baseman might be recorded as something like "5 feet to the right of the bag, 6 feet above the ground travelling at x mph caught by 3B." That piece of data goes into the system. Once the data is compiled, it can be used to award credits or demerits based on one's peers. If a ball hit to a fielder is typically fielded by 70% of one's peers and the player misses it, he gets a demerit of -.7 (1.00 - .30). In other words, on that play he was 70% worse than the typical outfielder in MLB. If he makes it, he gets a credit of +.3 (1.00 -.70). He was better than 30% of players on that batted ball. Over the course of the year, all plays are added for a total score.

Or the Fielding Bible uses a team of guys who watch every single baseball play from the entire year, chart each individual hit and note if a play was made and who was responsible. Then taking that entire bank of plays made, evaluate every single player in the league on every singly play relative to what their peers did on comparable balls in play. It's not perfect yet, but it's by far the best system out there and is the only one that rates individual performance instead of using some sort of matrix or historical model.

We seriously need a non-Yanks, non-Sox fan with understanding of the minor league talent (paging Al Keiper) to weigh in on these respective players. I tried to bring in outside analysis from Kevin Goldstein, but that was shunned. I really feel like the Yanks guys are overrating their talent. Hughes and Chamberlain are flat out monsters. I understand that. But everyone else is just sort of there, each with their own upside and potential faults. They are comparable to talents from many other teams. Just because Cashman likes to lump Kennedy in as the big 3 doesn't make it so.

Once again pointing to the Fielding Bible (seriously guys check this thing out... it's the closest thing we have to reliable defensive numbers), Melky was a -22 defender in center last year. That's the second worst in all of baseball. Watching Melky play, he shades back really far. This helps him avoid long fly balls that would normally go over his head because of his diminished range and subpar reads. It protects the team from the big play, but allows a lot of easy singles to drop in (by the way this is smart at least...better to give up the less damaging hits). However, it doesn't make him any good compared to other outfielders.

Carlos Beltran, Andruw Jones, Coco Crisp and Curtis Granderson are without a doubt the four best defensive centerfielders in baseball. There is no agrument there. After that, there's a definite falloff to the next group of guys. Ichiro, Hunter, Juan Pierre, Aaron Rowand and Vernon Wells alll have their strengths and weaknesses. I'm sure I'm missing a few guys, but that would at least make up the upper tier of defensive centerfielders. Well when i look at fielding % and see Torii at .995 along with Sizemore with only Ichiro and Coco ahead at .998 and seeing the plays Torii has been making for years.......call me crazy but i will take Torii over the list you put together Please, you aren't going to waste everyone's time citing FIELDING %(!) as an indicator of defensive value. Below are the 2007 +/- numbers comprised by Baseball Info Solutions for this year's Fielding Bible awards: Beltran +25 A. Jones +24 Crisp +22 Granderson +21 Logan +21 Amezaga +15 J. Jones +13 J. Owens +11 Pierre +5 Ichiro +4 Futhermore, using the sortable function for stats at Hardball Times shows him 11th in zone rating and 13th in out of zone plays. This year was the worst defensive performance he's had recently. If expand the data set to the last three years, he's a top 10 guy. Robbing homeruns off the trash bag does not make one a great fielder.

He has a career OPS+ of 90. Other than his stong arm, he doesn't field very well. Other than being young and cheap (which is something), he isn't any good. His VORP of 9.8 makes him just a few runs better than a replacement level hitter.

That's quite the juxtaposition there. Lester > Kennedy Crisp > Cabrera Masterson = Horne Lowrie >/= Jackson It's one thing to consider the Red Sox offer to be crap. I'm fine with that opinion. But don't present a Yankees offer that is worse as justification. Before the abrupt 2006 call-up and subsequent cancer diagnosis, Lester was rated higher than Phil Hughes as a prospect and was compared favorably to Papelbon in some scouting circles. Now, he was definitely passed by both guys in terms of performance and upside during that lost year and a half, but don't write off Lester as some back end guy. We haven't seen him at full strength yet. If he polishes the command and regains his strength, he's a #2 starter. Even if he doesn't he's a #3 or 4 lefty with breakout potential. Lester is rated as a five star commodity. Kennedy and Horne are four stars. No disrespect to those guys, but he's a much better prospect.

Carlos Beltran, Andruw Jones, Coco Crisp and Curtis Granderson are without a doubt the four best defensive centerfielders in baseball. There is no agrument there. After that, there's a definite falloff to the next group of guys. Ichiro, Hunter, Juan Pierre, Aaron Rowand and Vernon Wells alll have their strengths and weaknesses. I'm sure I'm missing a few guys, but that would at least make up the upper tier of defensive centerfielders.

I think the Dodgers, Mets and Angels are all in the negotiations as well. However, the Yanks and Red Sox are probably the only ones that have the minor league talent and the financial resources to put this thing together under the current conditions. It's a sad reflection of the state of the game, but that's the economic world they operate in. The Twins have one of the richest owners in sports, have a new stadium opening soon and just banked a reported $45 million from revenue sharing proceeds. They could sign Johan if they really made it a priority.

I'd buy that. Hell of a lot more interesting than Orton v. Jericho.

But you're forgetting that Melky Cabrera isn't any good. He can't hit, he can't field and he can't run the bases. He is only 23, so he has some upside but he isn't exactly a toolsy guy waiting to break out. He's been projected as 4th outfielder his entire career. I don't want the Yankees to trade Melky because it's a position that they could easily upgrade through free agency or in a trade. That being said, I still don't think Lester/Crisp/Lowrie/Masterson or a comparable Yankees package will be enough to get Santana. These teams are going to cough up some elite talent before this is over or Minnesota will just keep him.

For reference, here are Kevin Goldstein's rankings of the prospects in the Yankees and Red Sox system. This can give us some perspective when we are discussing the caliber of talent necessary to keep the deals equal. You will not find Jon Lester of Phil Hughes listed on either list, as they have both lost rookie eligibility. However, both were ranked as five star caliber prospects in his talent under 25 column.

As did I. Three quick sessions and I was finished. I liked the book, but I'm not gushing over it like a lot of other people.

The Yankees could probably match that with Hughes/Melky/Tabata/Horne. Will they?

Yeah, that's obviously written for a saber audience. The fact is, advanced stats or not, Tim Raines was the second greatest leadoff hitter in the history of baseball. It's not his fault that the best of all time was one of his contemporaries. Raines was an OBP machine and a monster on the basepaths. The general fanbase can understand that, right? I hope so. Here is a general indication of the kind of threat Raines was. In his rookie season Raines stole 71 bases. That would lead the league today. He did it in 88 games! It's a different game now, though. He wouldn't steal 71 in today's carpet-free National League. But he also increased the degree of difficulty by altering his slide to protect the viles of crack cocaine in his back pocket. Doesn't that count for anything?

Yeah, that's obviously written for a saber audience. The fact is, advanced stats or not, Tim Raines was the second greatest leadoff hitter in the history of baseball. It's not his fault that the best of all time was one of his contemporaries. Raines was an OBP machine and a monster on the basepaths. The general fanbase can understand that, right?

Not just saying this because I'm a Red Sox guy, but if they made the deal with Boston that is reportedly on the table (Lester/Ellsbury/Lowrie/Masterson), they'd solve all of their remaining roster problems in one swoop. Jacoby slides in at center, allowing them to put Cuddyer back at third. Lowrie takes over at short and Harris keeps second warm while they figure out what to do with Casilla. Lester takes up the final spot in the rotation.

Weren't there reports recently that Sid wouldn't be making a comeback because he told Vince he couldn't pass the new drug tests?

For those that are stilll wondering what's so special about Tim Raines: