Hunter's Torn Quad

Jericho beating Edge and Orton back to back won't mean a great deal with no follow up. A win, no matter how big it might seem on its own, doesn't have any lasting effect if it's treated as an afterthought. Jericho will need a lot more than a couple of big wins to get back his credibility, a lot more.

i think i read somehwere he really called them "goofs". i could be wrong tho. He said he called them goofs, but because he was slobbering at the time, it was hard to make it, and the censor thought he might have said gooks, so bleeped him anyway to be safe.

I believe he went on to open the most popular tightrope walking school on the eastern sea board.

Instead of just having him come out one day with is custom made WWE Title belt, they should make it part of a feud. Have JBL steal the WWE Title belt, and refuse to give it back unless he gets a rematch. Cena can then come out the next week and unveil his custom made belt, and tell JBL to keep the original belt, because he's got a real belt, and he's the champion anyway. JBL can then come out the week after, decry the custom belt as not befitting the WWE Champion, and Cena can interrupt and they can set up the rematch for the next SD PPV.

I'll repeat what I said earlier, as it's the best argument against HBK winning that match. The best thing for business would have been for Jericho, the guy going on the road and supposedly one of the people meant to draw at house shows, to beat the guy who was only wrestling part time, and not going on the road to all the house shows. It was another high profile match against a top star that Jericho lost clean in the middle, which, regardless of any emotional attachment to the result, only solidified Jericho as someone who, not only can't win the big singles matches, but can't beat a part time wrestler to boot. While it may have been the sentimental choice for Michaels to win, business dictated that Jericho should have won. There was no reason bar sentimentality for HBK to win. It was best for business that Jericho win that match. He'll need much longer than 3 weeks to get over the near 5 years of bad and inconsistant booking to become #1 face. Sure, his pops might get louder, but people are still going to have it in the back of their minds that the rug is going to get pulled out from under him, and you can't overcome that in just 3 weeks.

Styles the modern Ric Flair ? That's a good one. I'm a fan of Styles, and don't think Flair is quite the demi-god that most people think he is, but Styles is absolutely nowhere near being the modern Ric Flair. I don't even see how you can compare the two, anyway.

I guess some people like to bitch about the tiniest of details, and don't let the fact that the point was already brought up get in the way.

Rock/Jericho @ No Mercy and Triple H/Jericho LMS were a year and a half apart from each other. Already mentioned earlier in the thread.

It was not a Headhunter. It was a trainee from the ECW wrestling school called Kareem.

The problem with Cena not taking the title at WM, is that it would require either yet another screwjob decision in a JBL title match, which would devalue his reign even more, or Cena doing a clean job, which you don't do to a guy who you intend to push as the next superstar sensation. While the argument to keep the belt on Bradshaw has merit, what it would take to keep the belt on him involves decisions that are would be bad for business as well.

I disagree there. The only people who for the most part think this is bad is internet smarks. Many applaud Vince for giving JBL a world title run he FINALLY DESERVED! Long title runs are a lost art like tag team wrestling. Most wrestling fans are sick of the hot potato game always changing titles every few weeks. Long title runs are important in the industy. Samoa Joe had the ROH world title for 22 months, wrestling fans want longer title runs because you never know on any given ppv or wrestling show when they'll drop it. It's called the surprise element in wrestling, something vince has forgotten how to do. And the people who stayed away from house shows in droves for the vast majority of his reign. And the people at the tv taping in San Jose who walked out when JBL's main event match was about to start. They didn't mind his promo earlier in the night, but when it came time for him to wrestle, they walked out. And the fans at Armageddon who didn't even pop when JBL was being attacked by the other three babyfaces all at once in the main event. And what the heck is an 'internet smark' ? Is it an internet fan who doesn't have the same opinion as you ? Because that's when the term usually gets thrown about. When one internet fan wants to bash another for his opinion, and can't think of anything else. Only to his face. Most people hate the title reign, because it's reduced the title to almost a meaningless status. And who cares if he deserved it ? If people got title reigns because they 'deserved' them, then business would be the shits, because you'd invariably be ignoring the guys who could draw just to give a title to some lug who's been around forever. Bob Holly has been around for over 10 years, so should he get a World Title reign because he's stayed for so long ? Do some research before throwing around stats you think will make your point look good. Almost every Joe title defence ended with a clean win, the matches were built up to be taken seriously for a belt that the fans take seriously, and at no point during Joe's reign was he or the belt treated as a joke. That is why his lengthy reign was special, and exactly why Bradshaw's reign is nowhere near as special.

I'm surprised Masters hasn't used it yet. I'm sure he will sooner or later, along with a running forearm of doom and a rude reverse neckbreaker. And then they'll introduce his cousin from Ireland, Mickey Finn.

Watts didn't arrive until the middle of May. The bonuses for working hard was an idea of Kip Frey.

Case in point is whenever Undi uses his triangle choke or armbars. Nobody pops because he almost never wins matches with them.

The goal of a traditional wrestling match is to entertain. If you want your wrestling to look real, watch UWF-I or U-Style. But you want it to look somewhat real to allow the fans to suspend disbelief. If it looks absolutely ridiculous, fans won't be able to buy into it. Working over Van Dam's back and Van Dam selling it looks realistic. It also means Van Dam can still do the fancy kicks and such that get him over, without having to worry too much about having to sell his knees.

The matches weren't bad. The finishes were another matter.

It wasn't a botch. It's just that only Hogan and Patrick, and maybe Eric, knew what was going to happen.

I'm not faulting JBL. I never said anything of the sort.

The goal of a traditional wrestling match is to entertain. If you want your wrestling to look real, watch UWF-I or U-Style.

What hurt him was the follow up, where he went right back to the midcard. They should have kept the program going, maybe even adding him to the SummerSlam three-way. Same thing with Benoit, though to a lesser degree. Angle absolutely should have beaten Undertaker as well. Not only would it elevate him, it would have made sense with him coming off a KOTR tournament win, and headlining SummerSlam the next month.

I'd put that down to the wonders of booking. JBL's matches are booked to work around his weaknesses, whereas Cena's tend not to be. I think Cena's matches are cookie-cutter affairs. JBL has held his own in vastly different matches. He played the bully v Guerrero in some underappreciated matches. He played the terrified coward against Undertaker. And he played the champ inexpicably baffled by Booker T. I don't think the WWE would try to book Cena in a way to make his flaws more obvious. I just think he's a worker even more flawed than JBL (who can at least work a style that LOOKS fairly stiff) at this point. Cena is a nice guy and would be a good public face for the WWE. He just needs to learn how to work a match. -=Mike JBL's matches are all filled with foreign objects, varying amounts of interference, lots of out of the ring stuff, and with a finish that is rarely, if ever, clean. His matches are cookie cutter too, it just happens to be of a different shape. And while WWE wouldn't book Cena in a way to make his floors obvious, because he's not WWE Champion, he automatically doesn't get the kind of attention to detail that the champion gets. Remember, it's the main singles champions, or top guy when Hunter isn't the champion, that get all the shortcuts not afforded to the lower card guys, and it's those shortcuts that have helped cover up the weaknesses of JBL. I'm not saying it's wrong, because it isn't; it's sensible booking. It's just how things are. And yes, JBL works a style that looks fairly stiff, because it works to his strengths. However, ask him to only wrestle a straight match for 20 minutes, and he'd be in trouble, because that's not his strongest point, it's his weakest, and would make for a bad match, hence the reason we don't see it. As for Cena needing to learn how to work a match, while that may be true, it's not a life or death need, because any Champion, now matter how limited they really are, can look the part with smart booking. Just look at JBL.

I'd put that down to the wonders of booking. JBL's matches are booked to work around his weaknesses, whereas Cena's tend not to be.

One guy taking the SC on an Indy show, and this happened not long after the Kazarian deal, broke his neck.

"I'd better not piss off the guy who is getting me all this publicity by asking him to lose"

Cena needs to be a Public Enemy-type heel. Serious promo's with a comedic edge, and a brawling style to cover up for his weaknesses in the ring. And a new finisher. The FU either needs to go, or be turned into a proper DVD.