Hunter's Torn Quad

ROH returned to the Rex Plex in Elizabeth for the no time limit Samoa Joe vs. CM. Punk match stemming from their 60:00 draws in Dayton and Chicago. They drew 750 fans, with Joe retaining the title in 31:33 via submission with a choke. A lot of people were expecting both a title change and another 60-minute match, so they weren't ready for the finish, but it was another great match with great reactions. It also hurt that Joe and Punk didn't even get into the ring until 11:40 p.m. Punk was busted open early and bled heavily. The match had the same super heat as the prior match. After winning, Joe challenged Mick Foley (who was advertised as attending but didn't, and it was said he was making an appearance at a hockey game), to come to the next ROH show and come face-to-face with him. Ricky Steamboat ripped on Foley for not being there (he wasn't scheduled as he had an appearance scheduled at a minor league hockey game). The Bobby Heenan-Jim Cornette debate saw Cornette at first put Heenan over, but then turned heel on him, saying he's sick and tired of being told for his entire life that he was the second best manager of all-time, but he wasn't as good as Heenan. Comette said ROH had felt like home to him, and Heenan coming in ruined it for him. He even said that even though the WWF. WCW and cancer couldn’t kill Heenan (that's actually a funny line), that he wished Heenan would drop dead. Jack Evans and Roderick Strong went after Heenan, but Colt Cabana and Jimmy Jacobs made the save. The segment was said to have been tremendous. Fans gave Cornette and Heenan standing ovations when they came out. The whole segment went 16:00. This led to a tag match where Heenan managed Cabana & Jacobs and Comette managed Evans & Strong. Cabana & Jacobs won, and at the end, Comette, who had hit Cabana with the tennis racquet, had the racquet taken away by Heenan, who used it on Comette. Cornette bumped like crazy for Heenan. The crowd loved seeing this, which was the first match ever where Heenan and Cornette were involved in the same match. Cornette's work at ringside was said to have been unbelievable by people who never saw him live in his heyday (and even by those who had). The semifinal saw Bryan Danielson beat Homicide in 25:29 of a great match. The entire Rottweiler group (Homicide, Low Ki, and the Havana Pitbulls) all attacked and beat down Danielson. They did a unique finish in the Pure title match, as both champ John Walters and Jimmy Rave had run out of rope breaks (three allowed each). Walters got Rave in the sharpshooter. Rave made the ropes, but it meant nothing. Rave then pulled himself out of the ring, but Walters kept the hold on. The ref counted both men out, but Walters released the hold and jumped into the ring to beat the 20 count and retain the title. Low Ki and Austin Aries did a 20:00 draw. Gary Cappetta then announced, as the crowd chanted for five more minutes, that ROH management approved five more minutes. Low Ki then walked off. Crowd hated this, and some blamed it for killing the next match, where Ricky Reyes & Rocky Romero kept the tag titles over Nigel McGuiness & Chad Collyer in a good match with no crowd reactions. Slash Venom from Puerto Rico, who is also known as Flash Flanagan, worked the second match under a mask using the name Weapons of Mass Destruction, managed by Prince Nana, putting over Jay Lethal. Crowd wasn’t into the first half of the show, but largely was into the latter half and super into Punk vs. Joe. Next show is 12/26 in Philadelphia with Steamboat and Foley continuing their angle, plus Joe vs. Aries for the title and Low Ki vs. Danielson. While not confirmed, they are trying to get Spanky to return for the 1/15 Boston date. From this weeks WO

Another Brock Lesnar topic, and another series of comments from people who either have no clue about what they’re talking about, or are incredibly selfish and don’t give a shit about anything but their own pleasure. Do you people have a clue about Lesnar, or his passion or his ability or what he’s risked just to entertain you ? Clearly, many of you don’t know or don’t care about that, and just want Brock to do whatever it takes to entertain you, regardless of what he wants to do, and regardless of the risks involved. Seeing as this thread is filled with idiocy and selfishness, let’s go through some of the ‘best’ of the bunch: Other people have pointed out the stupidity in jobbing Lesnar out the minute he comes back, so we don’t need to go over that again. Suffice to say, the object of the wrestling business, and it is a business, is to make money, and you don’t make money by having someone who can make money if he’s treated as a threat treated like a joke. And money, clueless one, is what gives a wrestling promotion its future, because without it, it has none. And we’ve seen what happens when WWE ‘makes an example of’; it invariably hurts business. Do you want that ? Or do you even care ? This one is rich in idiocy: Lesnar can do an SSP. So he’s just supposed to continue to damage his knees and lose future mobility because ? You want him to keep coming out week after week to give you your jollies ? Get a grip you idiot. Why should he be humiliated when such a practice invariably hurts business ? Lesnar has earned his dues, and if you had clue one about what he’s been through, you’d realise that. Yes, fuck a guy who can make the company a ton of money. Much better that he be humiliated and embarrassed so you can get your jollies. Idiot. The roster won’t revolt. They might not like Lesnar coming back and getting a huge push, but if they care about their long-term future, and most of them do, they’ll suck it up, and realise such a push could put money in their pockets that currently isn’t there. No, the best thing to do is push him to the moon from the get go, and after a while, then slowly begin to have him show weakness. Cutting his legs out from under him right away is death as far as being a big money player. The only thing he did wrong was not giving enough notice so that he could put someone over on the way out. Other than that, I have no complaints. What’s he meant to do ? Keep doing something he hates just to entertain you ? He did the SSP flawlessly in OVW, but didn’t do in WWE bar WM XIX because he didn’t need to, and because it was just doing too much damage to his knees. Is he meant to keep doing it just because you get a kick out of it ? Because it entertains you ? And is he supposed to just keep dealing with that pain when he doesn’t have to ? If he can go out there and work **** matches without doing damage to his knees with the SSP, then he shouldn’t have to. You expect more out of a wrestler ? Seems like you expect him to not give a shit about his short-term or long-term welfare just to entertain you, which this comment bears out: Brock has great offence, bumps like crazy for a man his size, has great agility, and is darn good on the mic. He’s more than average. Way more than average. Brock was more than good enough to carry his end of all of his good matches. So, you’d rather piss away the money he could make just to placate a bunch of ego’s, who, incidentally, will make a lot less money without a big push for Brock ? It’s pretty obvious that a lot of the hate for Brock doesn’t come from any rational thought, or careful evaluation of the facts, but rather from the fact that Brock didn’t want to do something he hated just to entertain a bunch of ingrates, who clearly don’t care about anything but their own immediate gratification. Do you really know what he gave up ? He gave up a high six-figure to low seven-figure income, guaranteed, to make about a tenth of that. He might have made something approaching that, but not for a few years, and only if he really hit it big. Would any of you give that up to do something you cared about more, but paid a whole lot less ? And look at what the guy risked for you people. He came damn close to killing himself for your pleasure and enjoyment, and all you can do is piss and moan about him ‘turning his back’. The only ones turning their backs are the people who are selfishly criticising Brock for following his dream, just because it didn’t involve entertaining them. I hope whatever Brock does makes him happy, and if that means doing something that doesn’t involve risking his neck, literally, to entertain me, then so be it.

Ron Simmons wound up wrestling Steve Williams instead of Rude. The finish was a DCO or a DDQ, which the crowd hated. What they hated more was when Williams kept attacking Simmons, the referee changed the decision to a DQ win for Simmons. And Simmons wrestled The Barbarian at HH '92. He faced Jack at Clash XX.

FTR, Hogan KO'ing Inoki to win the IWGP Tournament was the planned finish. It was long thought to have been a legit accident, but it was revealed to have been a work a few years ago.

As long as the squash matches don't last more than a few minutes, any effect on ratings will be minimal at best. They don't need to be long anyway; the star hits his signature spots, poses a bit, hits his finish, and it's over. Not only would be it give the guy a win on Raw or SD, but it might get finishers a bit more over, if fans actually see them used to get wins, rather than as a transition.

According to several sources, the Carters and Panda must have given Jerry Jarrett the word they are wanting to pull out. Jarrett has told people he's on a time limit to find a new ownership group. The company has booked a 2/13 PPV date, which is the last PPV date on the schedule at this point. It's said Jerry has gone to Bob Carter and suggested before pulling out, to put himself in charge of the company and he'd be able to make it financially viable through cost cutting. It's very unlikely to happen since Bob's daughter has the position in charge of those financial decisions, which is why there was surprisingly little advertising for the 11/7 PPV . . . When Dusty Rhodes was introduced, he gave a football coaching speech to the talent and I've heard very mixed reactions to his speech. Some said it was like a college football coach rah-rah speech, but others said people were not at all positive. It was even compared with the famous Eric Bischoff speech where he said Hogan, Savage and Piper were the only people in the company who had ever drawn money so nobody had a right to complain, which pissed off the entire locker room, in particular anyone who had been friends with Flair, who was sitting there when Bischoff made that speech. Rhodes got heat by saying he heard there was a lot of heat because of how Hall & Nash came in, got the top spots, and in particular when Nash went way long on the interview and had nothing to say. Rhodes said he's tired of hearing complaining about Hall & Nash, saying they had proven themselves at the top level, and said, thanks to Hall, Nash & Savage, the company drew a good buy rate. Some say he lost credibility right there, because nobody even knew Savage was going to be on the show, so his being there had zero effect on buy rate. Plus, others thought it was a slap in the face, as he was insinuating they were the reasons for the buy rate and some took it like he was saying they were the only proven stars in the company. There was a ton of scepticism given his track record. Rhodes has booked out his major storylines as much as six months in advance, because he is an old school proponent of knowing where he's going and telling longer stories. He's into a lot of mystery stuff, and like Russo, is into copying from movies he's seen. The difference is, from those who know both, Russo copied with no idea how to tie the skits into anything that had wrestling intrigue, while Rhodes has a level of depth of knowledge Russo never understood, but he's also the product of a decade plus before. Rhodes said the biggest problem in the company is the lack of communication, which many agreed with. That's the biggest problem in both WWE and TNA right now. For example, things were so bad that even though the company had been told by FSN that the 11/26 show was cancelled, whomever got the word, didn't feel it important enough to let people know. Keith Mitchell, who does production, didn't find out until he called FSN to coordinate satellite time for 11 /26. and was told, "don't you know, you don't have a show." On the 11/19 show, even though the company knew (although almost nobody was aware of it, because when Keith Mitchell doesn't know and he's the one who does the coordinates, you can imagine how few were let it on it), nobody felt it important enough to announce on the air that next week's show would be airing on the following Tuesday. . . Rhodes' new- philosophy is to run fewer matches on TV, and make the matches longer, and try and slow down the X division matches with the old make the spots mean more ideas. He also emphasized letting guys have more interview time, and that the guys who can't pick up the slack on their interviews will eventually be replaced by those who can. The positive is a lot of the wrestlers no know long-term angles, so hopefully in knowing where they are going, they can tell the stories, as opposed to the past where the top guys may have had 2-3 weeks of knowledge of where they were going, but most everyone else didn't know until they showed up for TV. The negative on Rhodes is the same as many; not recognizing what shouldn't be on TV. He booked Scott Hall vs. A. J. Styles for a TV main event, but Hall was a good 20 pounds overweight and looked to have aged. Part of the problem was he was wearing those small WCW tights from when he was in shape at 245, and it only accentuated his gut because the tights were four sizes too small. All that was accomplished was Styles having a bad match that made people less interested in buying the PPV. The feeling by some is, they exposed that Hall can't do anything before the PPV. The funny thing was, the live fans were super into the match, chanting "Let's go A. J." alternating with "Let's Go Scott Hall" like it was a classic.. . They are really going to miss David Sahadi, because those videos are the best thing on the TV show. . . The plan right now is to air footage on the PPV of the deal when the WWE came to film the Rumble commercial in Orlando. It will have to be announced this week, so not sure how hard they are going to push it as one of the major selling points. . . A lot of people were also mad because nobody was told directly exactly how their pay will be affected by the double tapings. In fact, it wasn't even a sure thing the company would even address to the wrestlers the new taping schedule, other than they posted a note in the locker room listing upcoming dates for December as 12/5 (PPV), 12/7 and 12/21 and left it to the guys to deduce that meant taping ever}' other week. Eventually, after coaxing from some veterans who said it had to be addressed, they called a meeting, which was where Rhodes was introduced and gave his speech. It may not even be a sure thing, since Panda is looking at cutting costs wherever possible. It's known the wrestling side tried to make it so wrestlers who came in for a taping would be paid the equivalent of two shows instead of one, so the wrestlers and announcers wouldn't get their pay cut in half which would be one that would be received poorly. Panda hadn't approved of that at last word. Bob Ryder told the wrestlers at the 11/23 taping that they would all be getting paid for two shows "this time," with the important words being "this time." Lots of people are nervous, because the TNA gig, if you make $500 a week plus a PPV, is $2,500 per month. It's not liveable on its own, but it's a base. If cut down to $1,500, it makes a big difference. For those who don't get outside Indy work, and these are the guys who need this the most, they'll be the first ones hurt. The fact Konnan would miss a PPV show to work in Mexico tells you a lot about the long-term confidence in things here. . . Jeff Hardy is said to be now in the best frame of mind since he's come. Hardy gets along great with Hall & Nash because when he was a teenager being brought in to do jobs on WWF TV, Hall & Nash were always friendly with the Hardy’s and were again when they came in here. Hardy has been pretty much told he has carte blanche to arrive late, as long as he gets there on time for the TV show . . . Erik Watts is back partially because DDP, who had been friends with him for years since both trained at the Power Plant at the same time, went to bat for him. . . Dale Torborg has been backstage at Orlando shows of late. He's a life-long fan who has always looked at getting back in, even though he has a career as a major league baseball coach. . . Petey Williams came up with the Canadian Destroyer move a few years ago in practice with Chris Sabin. He said the move is a lot safer than it looks. The funny thing is Amazing Red had come up with the move in 1998 in training, but never used it in a match. Williams, 23, said he's preparing for a career in law enforcement in Canada in case something happens with his wrestling career. .. Kid Kash will be back in the doghouse after an interview in this month's Power Slam magazine in the U.K. When asked why he's unhappy, he said, "It's the politics, the favoritism. In every other company I've worked for, and I've been around a long time-there was always room for advancement (I guess his memory of his stay in WCW has vanished). That's your main goal in any job, to advance. That's my goal. But, in TNA, that doesn’t seem possible because they've already selected the people that are going to be pushed. . . Most companies have their chosen ones. I understand that. But most companies allow the other talent, the true talent, to advance (he's still not remembering WCW). TNA doesn't allow that. Even when you watch the advertisements (for Impact), they only advertise Jeff Jarrett, Raven, AMW and A.J. Styles. . . Bob Ryder asked me if I watch the television show. And I told him that I did, but I don’t anymore because you can't even tell if I work (for TNA)... They don't even have an explanation for anything.. . I've taken a lot of flak over the years because I tell you what's on my mind. (TNA management) never tells you anything straight . . . TNA wants credibility. They want the company to be credible enough to run with WWE. So they started realizing that the only thing people are tuning in for is to watch the X division. When I was in the X division, it was exciting. But it was guys like me, Jerry Lynn, Christopher Daniels and Elix Skipper, guys who know how to wrestle the cruiserweight style and tell a story in a match. Now they have guys who are in over their heads, who are buddies with people in the office.. . Don't get me wrong; some of these kids are good. But they have not one ounce of ring psychology. They take a big bump off the top rope and what do they do? They kip right up. They have no selling ability, no microphone ability. The only thing they can do is big spots. But they can't even do their spots where they are supposed to go. If you watch an X division match, all you see is a cluster of moves. . . TNA claim they don't have money in the budget to pay the wrestlers decent wages. They should pay us at least what we're worth. .. TNA says (they can't pay more) because it's not in the budget. But they can bring in different people, like Lex Luger, of all people, a washed up guy with more demons in his closet than he can deal with." He complained how TNA can pay Hall & Nash $50,000 each and not give him a few hundred dollar a week raise. He said he's asked to get a release a few times and been turned down, but wouldn't go to WWE if they offered him a developmental deal. .. TNA lost its TV in the U.K. on The Wrestling Channel effective 12/15. The channel, which is having its financial issues, offered TNA a lower priced deal for 2005, and TNA turned them down. Rick Norton on The Wrestling Channel forum said they've been unable to agree to new terms, plus had constant comments from viewers about the delayed feed (they were airing shows from months ago), and said they felt the time lag was unacceptable considering WWE is able to get its shows on Sky the week of airing.

Keep in mind I said Meltzer probably no sold me. Maybe Meltzer is willing to share all his knowledge after all in e-mails, but then again, maybe not. I think it's more likely his family took precedence over the questions from a bunch of nameless people on the internet.

The latest update on WO.com says he's had a family emergancy all day, and things will be hectic at the site for a while.

I think anyone with half a brain has figured out by now that Meltzer, or anyone else, will eventually start to ignore you if you pester them daily with questions.

He knows when to start ignoring people, though.

Hard to imagine he'd get sick of someone constantly asking him questions. Well, not that hard if you use some common sense.

I'm not talking about not creating questions that people will want to see answered, I'm talking about the cliffhanger-type endings like with the World Title situation from last week. There is a difference between leaving people wanting to see the consequence to an action, like a turn, than leaving them waiting to see the conclusing of an action, like a disputed ending to a World title match. Too many endings of, "Oh no, what happens next ?", and it becomes annoying. You don't need to constantly go to a typical cliffhanger to make people want to tune in again next week.

If they don't have anybody 'ready' for the NWA Title, and they really do need a title switch, both to take the focus away from Savage and to shake things up, then they're going to have to go with the guy who is closest to ready, and that may be Brown.

They need something to take the attention off of Stick Man Savage screwing them over, so I wouldn't be surpised if they switch the NWA Title at the PPV. Of course, Triple J will get his belt back in short order, but I still think a quickie title change could happen.

What do you mean cliffhanger bullshit? Every episode of RAW should make you want to see the next. While every episode of Raw should leave you wanting to see the next one, there are ways of doing that without having to constantly go to the cliffhanger route. Do that often enough, and people get tired of being left hanging, and tune out.

Ultimate Jeopardy '96 was the name given to the main event of the October 5th 1996 Arena show, which saw Tommy Dreamer and Sandman take on Stevie Richards and Brian Lee. It was so called, because each man had stipulations he would have to adhere to if he lost; If Dreamer lost, Beulah was gone from ECW, if Sandman lost he would take 10 lashes from the cane, if Stevie lost Raven would lose the ECW Title, and if Lee lost he would have to shave his head. Richards took the place of Raven, who entered rehab that afternoon.

I don't think Savage wanted to win the NWA Title at all. I think he was just looking for an excuse to bail out and/or avoid putting Jarrett over, and this was it. He knew TNA would never agree to his request/demand, and if they hadn't sent him home, I have no doubt that Savage would have walked out anyway.

We'll find out if Hunter's comments had any merit the next time Holly does something unprofessional like this. My guess is we'll see something by WM XXI, probably over Holly being pissed at not being on the card.

Shawn may very well be one of the most overrated wrestlers of all time. Sure, he's a great performer, and can get the crowd going, but for the all round package, he's nowhere near the top 10, or even the top 20. His selling his top notch, when he does decide to sell, but when he's on offence, he has to rely on the other guy to look good, because he has Sid-level punches, in that they don't look like they could break an egg. And his selling, which is his undoubted strong point, isn't as great as his fanboys make it out to be, because, in numerous matches, when he's selling his back like crazy while it gets worked on, once he starts his comeback, he does his kip-up, and the back never gets sold again. How someone who can't follow the basic precepts of selling so often can get called an all-time great is beyond me. As for his offence, that's pretty much a joke. He can't work the mat, and no, a few chinlocks and headlocks here and there don't count. His aerial stuff is fine, but, again, he always goes for moves that, given what his opponent has done, he shouldn't logically go for; even if his back has been worked on, he'll still do the big elbow off the top, not sell the back at all, preferring to keep the kip-up in his routine, regardless of how little sense in makes in the body of the match. His mic work is ok, but he's only ever done a couple of interviews that I've thought were really good, with the rest being a mishmash of clichés and formulaic lines. I've always considered him a highspot artist who usually sells like crazy, and I've never yet seen him put on any kind of consistent performances that would make me think any different.

Konnan against Sandman at HP '96 is ok, if basic. It's pretty much just cane shots and some brawling, but it isn't bad by any means.

Yes. The Hogan v Goldberg match was meant to be dark, but when WWF started winning the ratings, Bischoff put the match on TV, thereby pissing away about $7m in PPV revenue. The Flock broke up when Saturn beat Raven at FB '98 in a match where, if Saturn won, The Flock had to disband. And they did. Put that down to Eric. He made the call to take Jericho off TV in the last months of his stay. Quite why they didn't bury him on the way out, I don't know. Probably in mid-1998 when he passed out backstage when he was doing commentary on an internet broadcast of Nitro.

This took place at the December 1995 ECW Arena show. The match was apparently only ok, but the event itself was never commercially released. I think that was because the card as a whole was only considered ok, and not release worthy.

What happened was four guys, Sandman, Sabu, Van Dam and, I think, Fonzie, wanted to leave ECW, all for different reasons. They told Todd about wanting to leave, and he offered to call Terry Taylor, with a view to getting them into WCW as a package deal. He called Taylor, told them what the deal was, and while WCW wanted to negotiate individually, Gordon was intent on keeping it as a package deal. At this team, Perry Saturn was wanting to leave ECW, and, on his own, made his own deal with WCW. This meant a dollar amount had been set in terms of what the four guys could roughly ask for, which weakened their negotiating position. At this point, Gordon ended his involvement, and the four guys ended up staying. The only guys to really take issue with what Todd were the 'New York Clique'; Tazz, Bubba Ray, Tommy Dreamer, etc. When it did come out that Todd was talking to WCW on behalf of the four, Tazz did an interview where he buried Todd, and ran him down for what he did. In response, Sandman did an interview burying Tazz, because he felt Tazz owed Tod something for giving him his break. Tazz apologised to Gordon, saying that Paul E told him to do it, that others would be doing interviews too, but that Tazz wound up being the only guy to do one.

WON January 8th 1991 Page 1 WON January 8th 1991 Page 2 WON January 8th 1991 Page 3 WON January 8th 1991 Page 4 WON January 8th 1991 Page 5 WON January 8th 1991 Page 6 WON January 8th 1991 Page 7 WON January 8th 1991 Page 8 WON January 8th 1991 Page 9 WON January 8th 1991 Page 10 The reason I've posted this issue as a series of pictures, is the marks you see on the pages make it impossible for them to be scanned as a text file. Well, not impossible, but the results are such incomprehensible gibberish, that they read like an Ulitmate Warrior promo, and are just as impossible to decipher. They are very readable, though, and you can make everything out that isn't covered by the marks. Thanks go to S D for pointing me in the direction of the program that I've used to scan this issue.

--Paul Heyman was removed from the WWE writing team just minutes ago. No details are available right now other than it was something that had been building and not one specific incident. It will no doubt be pointed out that ratings came from the lowest point in the show's history in September to the highest level in more than a year less than two months later. Credit - WO.com