Hunter's Torn Quad

...and the guy who proposed the second idea WAS fired. Yes, but he was fired because he want straight to Vince with ideas for midcarders, rather than going through Stephanie.

The only talk I head in regard to Luger and Bret facing each other, was when Luger was still planned to come out of WM X with the WWF Title, and that he'd be facing Bret at Summerslam in a face v face match. As for the Billy Gunn story, that's almost certainly false. IIRC, the actual story is that he was originally going to lose due to some sort of interference from Bossman, but he pissed someone off, and the finish was changed to him tapping out clean.

Heyman did get into a volatile argument with Brian Gewirtz around the time of the 2003 Rumble, which saw both men suspended from creative for a week. Heyman was removed as SD head writer not long after.

The initial reports had Backlash getting 600,000 buys. However, it soon turned out that Backlash got around just under half that, and I believe that latest information had it at around 260,000 buys.

Raw at the Baltimore Arena, and I assume it was there, drew around 50% of capacity. Yes, quite the success that is.

If a group that controls 95% of the national scene is barely drawing more than 2,000 to live events, and has to heavily paper TV and PPV's, how is that a success ?

As much money as WWE makes, the fact that they are making less money than ever before, and are struggling at the gate, means I can't call them a success. If they were a real success, business for them would be far more better than it is.

Exactly. WWE may be making the most money right now, but that isn't a fair indication of real success. If it was, then a WWE wrestler would always win Wrestler Of The Year, because they'd be working for the 'most successful' company. WWE will always make money, but that does not mean they are always being a success.

You think taking Joe out of ROH would kill them? It'd be a blip on the radar. The people who go to those shows go for the workrate. At the numbers they do, they'd be fine with Danielson, Punk, Aries, etc in the spot. Funny how you never brought those points up in regard to the wrestlers who you think should be WOTY. Apart from Kobashi, taking out any of the other wrestlers you've mentioned out of their respective promotions would have zero effect too. Doesn't say much for their importance, which is a key factor in the WO criteria you measure by.

It's funny how the guy who brought up the WO qualifiations in regard to Wrestler Of The Year seems to be ignoring the part about "overall strong value to the company." To me, if you want to see how valuable someone is to a promotion, you should consider the effect taking them out of the promotion would have. As much as I love them, taking out Benoit or Guerrero, or any one person in WWE, would have zero effect on the company.

I just think whatever impact that article had, if any at all, was minimal. I think it more likely that Vince had already planned things out for either Luger or Hart coming out of WM X as champion, as faces, and what finally caused him to go with Bret was the reaction Luger got at the Rumble.

If you'd like to try typing out the Observer with no mistakes, feel free to take over. I'm just being an asshole, don't take offense. I appreciate you typing the Observe Newsletter a lot. Thanks. Be an asshole to someone who doesn't take the time to type out something like this, that they don't have to, thanks.

If you'd like to try typing out the Observer with no mistakes, feel free to take over.

While Luger was meant to win the WWF Title at WM X, the most credible information I've heard as far as when the decision was changed has it changed just after the Rumble, when Luger's announced win got him booed out of the building, and Bret's announced win hot thunderous cheers. From what I remember, that really shocked Vince, and a few days later, he pretty much decided not to put the belt on Luger. I'm guessing he hedged his bets somewhat, though, as at the last TV tapings before WM X, they ran a dark angle, where Cornette was doing an in-ring promo holding the WWF Title belt, was badmouthing Luger, who came out, and Cornette dropped the belt and ran off. McMahon then asked the crowd, "Wouldn't it be nice if Luger was announced as the WWF Champion ?", to which the crowd cheered, and Luger took the belt and went to the back, and McMahon then introduced Luger as the WWF Champion. Because this was at the final taping before WM X, the speculation was that it was taped for airing after, and that Luger was indeed going to walk out of WM X as champion, but of course the angle never aired, and wasn't even taped.

Perfect dropped out citing a foot injury, but I believe it was actually a contract dispute.

Giant Baba wasn't an asshole, and he did pretty well while he was alive.

I'm a huge Eddie fan, but to say ratings increased with him on top is not true. If you go and check SD's ratings from when he became champion, they actually began to slide a couple of weeks after he won the WWE Title, and beyond the 3/19 episode, the ratings during his reign were lower then they were before. That's not to say that Eddie was driving them away, as I think the SD product of the time was doing that, but to say ratings increased during his reign is incorrect.

He would have drawn less and less with each visit, just like Hogan did. A great deal of Andre's drawing power was down to his novelty value, as he never really appeared in one place for a long time in one go. As big a draw as Andre and Hogan were, they drew the most when they didn't visit too often. This is borne out by the fact that, while Hogan's first meeting in house shows against the latest top heel drew strong numbers, the second and/or third visits, while sill drawing strong, drew a lot less than the first time out. This fact tends to get forgotten by a lot of people when talking about Hogan's drawing power.

As someone brought up the Observer qualifications for Wrestler Of The Year, I thought people should know what they are, seeing as the person bringing them up never actually said what they were: Well, going by that, Samoa Joe is most definitely an important and influential performer, as his work and presence in ROH was absolutely important and influential to the promotion, in terms of storylines that played a major part of the group, ie. Jushin Liger coming in, the feud with the Briscoe Brothers, his series with Punk, etc. His box office impact on ROH is really without doubt, as I absolutely feel he means a great deal to ROH by being on cards. As for his match quality, that speaks for itself, as he’s had good to great matches with just about everyone he’s faced. Add all that up, and I’d say that Samoa Joe definitely has a great deal of value to ROH, and, for me, gives him a great case for being Wrestler Of The Year, at least by the requirements given. From what’s been written here, it seems like certain people’s reasons for not thinking Joe is Wrestler Of The Year having nothing to do with whether he meets the Observer’s criteria, which is the standard they seem to be judging by, as he very clearly does, but more to do with some elitist attitude, due to Joe working for a “popular part time Indy federation that draws a few hundred people at a time.” I think it’s those people that really need to think before voting.

January 19th 2000.

If the wrestler of the year is the wrestler that is most valuable, then Samoa Joe and Kenta Kobashi are about the only legitimate candidates out there. While WWE, New Japan, etc could survive the loss of any one wrestler without much damage, if Joe or Kobashi were to be taken out for any length of time, then ROH and NOAH would lose serious business. Both wrestlers mean just that much to their respective promotions.

It was a planned line. Lawler knew ahead of time that comment was going to be made. They even segued that into an angle on Memphis TV, where Lance Russell asked Lawler about what Heyman said, and they teased Lawler revealing the truth for a couple of weeks, before it was ended in some inconclusive fashion.

why does everyone say that? At the TV taping recorded 5/12 in Anaheim, during at least 1 match (Beefcake's I think which aired 6/6). Vince, Bruno and Jesse all discuss the following week's title match with Honky & Steamboat, which was taped 6/3. Now, I'm pretty sure the commentary for the match was recorded live, (they would never dub in commentary by Bruno afterwards I'm sure, as they always did live commentary for TV tapings, and began dubbing them in shortly after Bruno left) so I don't understand why everyone says Butch Reed was scheduled to win the title? Everyone says it because it's true. It's well known. Even Honky himself has admitted that he only got the belt because Butch Reed "went AWOL".

Credit - http://www.wrestlingclassics.com/wawli/New161-170.htm

Dude, you don't know that. Only Sabu, RF, his employees, and a few others know. I'd love to see you commit to the travel schedule that Sabu once had and still maintains. Maybe the time was right to let the mystique die. Sabu has had a lot of physical and personal stuff go down over the past few years. He's not going to be wrestling for more than a couple more years, and that's pushing it. The non-life-threatening back tumors that someone else brought up are just one example of his problems. He has a lot more health problems that I know a bit about, but hardly enough to speak of (partly because of the credibility issue and partly because a lot of the stuff crosses the level of what should be on a public forum). Who are you to comment on his financial status? If you don't think Sabu's cash crisis, which is well known, wasn't the primiary motivation for doing this, then you're deluding yourself. As for who I am to comment on his financial status, I'm just going by what's obvious to those without the blinkers you seem to have on: Sabu needs money to pay his medical bills, and this is one obvious cash cow to go to.