Hunter's Torn Quad

His push might be lessened slightly, but he would still be the most pushed wrestler on the roster. He'd probably be less visible for sure, but that would be made up for with JR and Jerry talking about him all the time, like how WCW did with Hogan.

While that is true to some extent, you would still expect someone who got the kind of push Michaels did, both in the ring and on commentary, to get still get above the 2.2 mark on a regular basis. nWo and co played a part, but so did the fact that Michaels character was a huge turn-off for males.

If we're talking about Michaels, it should be pointed out that he was pretty much a flop as far as ratings go. Raw hit some really bad numbers during his '96 reign. We're talking Diesel levels here.

Shawn also got a clean win over Davey Boy on a Raw main event, in the lead up to WM XI.

Nobody is blaming 3H for all WWE's woes. It's just he's the primary reason for them. Others can shoulder blame as well as 3H.

According to Melter's latest update, it was Wifebeater who attacked Kashmere.

According to Melter's latest update, it was Wifebeater who attacked Kashmere.

According to Melter's latest update, it was Wifebeater who attacked Kashmere.

3H didn't ruin Eugene, as much as his overpush killed him. Eugene got over big very quickly, as a cult novelty act, and, as usual, Vince and Co pushed him way too hard and fast for how he was considered by the fans, and they rebelled. Eugene could have had a much longer shelf life had they booked him better.

And remember how Triple H reacted when Shelton demanded a rematch ? He laughed, acted like it was no big deal, and casually refused. How are we supposed to care about Shelton beating Triple H if Triple H doesn't even care ?

Benoit didn't help business, though he didn't harm it either, because he was never pushed as the 'next' World Champion, because he was never going to be. Benoit got the belt both because it was the climax of a great storyline, but primarily so Triple H could win it back. Orton was intended to be, but they quickly realised that Orton didn't have the juice required, so they got the belt off of him, and back to Triple H, so Randy could get the juice require to be the 'next' World Champion. Chris Jericho was in the same position as Benoit, and just a transitional champion, who got the belt solely to be the one who dropped it to Triple H. Neither of those three deserve much, if any, blame for business during their title runs, because neither was pushed as the World Champion and the face of the company. During the runs of Benoit and Jericho, other people were the most pushed, and neither was given the real chance to be the face of the company, and/or a true World Champion. And it matters if Triple H is on top, because until things change, they'll never get better, because WWE will always seem stale with him on top all the time.

Triple H's neverending push is the one constant over these past few years of constant decline. Seems like he'd be the main reason for it to me. It's a good thing you're an expert on business, too, then. Feel free to try and come up with a good counterpoint if you can. Triple H's neverending push, to the point of reducing everyone else to bit players, is a key reason that things haven't improved, because things are stagnant. How can things get better if they never change ?

My fault, I thought I heard Joey Styles suggesting it was. But than again, this is Styles were talking about so I should have known better. Assuming you've seen the whole DVD, what did you think of the documentary part, and the matches ?

Triple H's neverending push is the one constant over these past few years of constant decline. Seems like he'd be the main reason for it to me.

Don't underestimate Patterson's influence. Not only does he have one of the best minds around for laying out a match, he was also a close ally of The Rock. With someone The Rock felt close to, and someone who shared his dislike of Triple H, being ousted, this will undoubtedly make The Rock feel even more wary of coming back to do something. When the loss of Patterson, who, in addition to having a great mind for wrestling, was also one of the few who could be totally honest with Vince, at least until now, things will change, and for the worse. Patterson's loss will be felt.

The Snow match wasn't Benoit's debut in ECW. He'd wrestled for them a fair few times in 1994. And I actually got the Benoit DVD myself a few weeks ago, and watched the match in question. It is in no way a squash, and Snow gets in the amount of offense he should have, given their respective positions on the totem pole at the time. I'd give it ***1/4-***1/2 myself.

When HBK was a short lived member of the nWo in 2002, he was giving a long and boring promo on Raw. During a pause for breath, someone in the front row shouted out, "Get to the point!". It was hysterical, made more so by the fact that the arena was totally silent. They couldn't have cared less about HBK's speech.

He listened to the internet back then, and based his decisions on the feedback he got on the internet. He openly admitted this very frequently back then. When the little person finally has someone who listens to them, they're bound to defend that person, no matter how much their faith is misguided. And I can see only the most blinkered of Russo fans genuinely thinking that Russo leaving the WWF could have killed it, or even done serious damage. To actually think Russo leaving for WCW could have turned things around would require totally ignoring or grossly downplaying the political minefield that was WCW. It wouldn't have mattered if someone with the combined creative talent of Heyman, McMahon, Raven and Shakespeare had taken over WCW at that point; the politics would have wound up taking WCW down the same path.

Unforgiven 2000. And I LOATHED that finish. The only logical ending for that tremendous storyline was for Kurt to steal Stephanie, which would have turned 3H uber face. Sadly, ego got in the way of business. Wasn't the 4-way title match the last match on the show? And having Jericho steal Steph would've been the better way to go IMO. Having her leave with Kurt would've been way too predictable, and they had already set up Jericho/Steph with the kiss at KOTR. The 4-way did end Unforgiven, but I guess that he remembered the triangle angle most of all. And while Jericho might have made some sense as the person to have stolen Stephanie, the angle was designed, originally, for Angle to steal her, and it might have been predictable, but by the time the angle was set to peak, the people were dying to see Angle take her anyway. On a side note, I don't think WWF/E ever managed to get an angle like that ever again, both in terms of long term planning and emotional attachment.

Wouldn't it have made more sense for the Dreamer pinfall over Raven to have been saved for when it could have been built to better ? With the Barely Legal PPV, they to split the push for the World Title challenger between three people. It would mean a lot more if Dreamer's pinfall win over Raven was the culmination of one last strong storyline, rather than one 7 minute match, which is how long the BL main event lasted. In any event, I wouldn't have had Dreamer get the pinfall then, or even when Raven left. It would have added something to Dreamer's character that they could have played on, if he always had the spectre of that one person he could never beat. It adds depth to a hero to have a nemesis like that. Raven was always going to return to ECW, regardless of how WCW went, and Dreamer could have gotten his pinfall then, after a suitable storyline and push. I can't really agree, as I don't think the fans would want to see Dreamer never go over Raven. There's a fine line between a slow build --- and an angle without a proper payoff. It would've made more sense, in my eyes, for ECW to give the fans what they wanted here. Thing is, you could never know, for certain, if Raven would return to ECW. I wouldn't want to book in the hopes that he'd come back. -=Mike I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. While I do think Dreamer should have pinned Raven eventually, I don't think BL would have been the place to do it. It should have been saved for a PPV, with a proper build up that could have focused solely on Dreamer and Raven. As for Raven coming back to ECW, he himself has said he always knew he'd return to ECW, and looking at how things went, he was right. Even if he had done well in WCW, the politics would have seen him go nuts with not getting elevated, and he would have left anyway.

Unforgiven 2000. And I LOATHED that finish. The only logical ending for that tremendous storyline was for Kurt to steal Stephanie, which would have turned 3H uber face. Sadly, ego got in the way of business.

One, I don't think anyone could have seriously thought that the WWF was going to die when Russo left. Secondly, no one single person leaving is going to kill WWE, or any company; it'll be a series of blunders that does that. And thirdly, Patterson's influence is more important, at least over the long term, than Russo's, at least as far as the in ring stuff goes. Because of that, I think Patterson's departure is going to do more damage than Russo's ever did, in ways that might not even be obvious to a lot of people.

Wouldn't it have made more sense for the Dreamer pinfall over Raven to have been saved for when it could have been built to better ? With the Barely Legal PPV, they to split the push for the World Title challenger between three people. It would mean a lot more if Dreamer's pinfall win over Raven was the culmination of one last strong storyline, rather than one 7 minute match, which is how long the BL main event lasted. In any event, I wouldn't have had Dreamer get the pinfall then, or even when Raven left. It would have added something to Dreamer's character that they could have played on, if he always had the spectre of that one person he could never beat. It adds depth to a hero to have a nemesis like that. Raven was always going to return to ECW, regardless of how WCW went, and Dreamer could have gotten his pinfall then, after a suitable storyline and push.

Meltzer has confirmed the news. Patterson resigned on the 5th, and the Tuesday PPV will be his last day.

Angle kicking out of three consecutive Stunners at SummerSlam 2001.