Hunter's Torn Quad

Karen is on TV all the time, in the top angles, and a central figure in all of Kurt's storylines. What would she have to complain about?

Minor note here. Since Cena and Batista switched shows, the World Heavyweight title is now on Smackdown I believe. I'm too used to all the important things being on Raw.

This is always a fun debate... I don't think there is any accepted consensus opinion on the lineage of the various world titles, but this is how I see it: The NWA title is the one currently held by Adam Pearce, and has no modern connection with any of the world titles in WWE. The board of the NWA, such as it is, sanction the NWA champion and they recognize Adam Pearce as NWA world champion. The WWF title is the WWE title, and the 'World heavyweight' title is simply the gold belt that Eric gave to Hunter and has nothing to do with the NWA title, the WCW title or the WWF title. The WWF and WCW titles were merged into the Unified title. When Brock Lesnar took it to Smackdown, it was subsequently renamed the WWE title, and so for me the WWE Title is still the merged WWF and WCW titles, simply with a new name. The 'World heavyweight' title on Raw is simply a title belt that came out of a suitcase and was given a fancy name. Because it looks like the old Big Gold Belt, some people take it to mean it's a continuance of the NWA or WCW title, but I don't see it that way. Whatever the NWA title was is strictly a part of the NWA and not WWE, and the WCW title is still part of the Unified title which is now called the WWE title. For me, the WWE title's lineage goes back to Chris Jericho, because it's still the renamed Unified title. The lineage of the 'World heavyweight' title goes back to when Eric pulled it out of the briefcase.

It's the follow up that means as much, if not more, than the actual clean job. Goldberg didn't drop the ball after beating Hogan simply because he never got the ball. Hogan still had it and never let it go even though he 'put Goldberg over'. It's far too simplistic to say if someone jobs clean in the middle he put someone over. Nash lost clean to Rey, but he sure didn't put Rey over, and it would be beyond comical to suggest he did. Once a guy gets the ball, yes, he should be judged on how he runs with it. However, if the guy who gave him the ball, by losing clean to him, makes sure he never gets a real chance to run with it, how can you say he put him over?

True, but it was because of those ratings increases that Edge was put in the main event feud with Cena over the summer last year. It got him the chance that ended up making his career as top level player.

With Benoit, Hunter never really put him over. After WM XX, Benoit was only in the top Raw program for as long as Hunter and Shawn were also involved. Once Hunter and Shawn went into their feud, it was given top billing and Benoit was secondary. With Benoit, Hunter never put him over but he never really buried him either, because he was the guy Hunter could always have a good match with so Hunter knew to keep him credible enough for when they had to wrestle so when Benoit won it didn't hurt Hunter. At the same time, Hunter losing to Benoit was never done to put Benoit over but to further Hunter's feud at the time. When Benoit won the Iron Man match, the focus was on Eugene because that was who Hunter had the feud with at the time. When Benoit beat Hunter in the Gold Rush tournament, the focus was on Batista helping Benoit win because he and Hunter were building towards their Hell in a Cell match. With Batista, I'd call the end result Hunter elevating Batista rather than putting him over, because Batista wound up on Smackdown and was never 'put above' Hunter. That said, Batista did get made into made into a top level player from the program, so he definitely got elevated from it. It's worth wondering about how giving Hunter would have been in the feud with Batista if the plan was for Batista to stick around and for them to be on the same show. Would he have made the guy look so strong if they were going to be vying for the top spot on Raw? Hunter losing to Cena was simply that. The focus on Raw for most of the summer was the DX vs. McMahon feud, though at the time Cena was mostly in the RVD program, which was always going to be secondary. When Edge got the belt from RVD, things got more equal with the Edge vs. Cena feud getting roughly the same air time as the DX vs McMahon feud. It is worth pointing out, though, that Hunter was originally going to win the WWE title from Cena, so who knows how things might have played out if that had happened. Has Hunter put anyone over? I think it would be more accurate to say he's elevated people, though in that respect I think the only one he's elevated is Batista. It's hard to think of another Hunter feud where after the feud is over the other guy came out of it stronger than when he came in. Some people might point to Cena, but I think when that feud was over, if it was ever a feud and if it was ever officially resolved, that Cena was in the same position he was before he started.

Looking at what happened on screen is exactly what shows Hogan didn't put them over. Goldberg beat Hogan, but what happened in the follow-up? Goldberg almost always worked the secondary top match and once wasn't even on the PPV at all. Hogan was still in the main events, and even when he wasn't, for Havoc against Warrior, it was still the match that got the most promotion ahead of Goldberg's match. That isn't putting Goldberg over, and it's a joke to say otherwise. Rock beat Hogan, but the handshake is exactly what stole the spotlight from Rock. The focus wasn't on Rock beating Hogan. It was on Hogan, who was meant to be the heel, being gracious and humble in defeat. I think the post-match even saw Rock ask Hogan to pose with him. Who got put over in that one? Fantastic points. I can't argue with Hogan/Rock, especially since Hogan quickly won the title and the whole promotion centered around the return of the red and yellow. With Goldberg, though, regardless of the fact that Hogan wasn't on the PPV, wasn't the whole plan from that point on for Goldberg to headline Starrcader against someone OTHER than Hogan? WCW's Wrestlemania program focused around the guy 4 months later kind of signals the rub, eh? I don't know what the plan for Starrcade was, but I know that when Hogan's loss to Goldberg was moved from being the dark match to being the Nitro main event, he did so in exchange for being the one to end the win streak.

If Benoit never officially told anyone about the concussions he suffered while wrestling for WWE, and she's only talking about not finding medical records of concussions he suffered while in WWE, I might see how they had that conclusion. If nothing was ever official, then it's possible nothing was put on paper. But it's still quite the statement to make.

They had plans for Jarrett, but he simply couldn't get over. And he didn't get over at all until he got the women beating gimmick.

If you're going to give someone a chairshot to the head, at least hit the center of the forehead where the skull is thickest.

Looking at what happened on screen is exactly what shows Hogan didn't put them over. Goldberg beat Hogan, but what happened in the follow-up? Goldberg almost always worked the secondary top match and once wasn't even on the PPV at all. Hogan was still in the main events, and even when he wasn't, for Havoc against Warrior, it was still the match that got the most promotion ahead of Goldberg's match. That isn't putting Goldberg over, and it's a joke to say otherwise. Rock beat Hogan, but the handshake is exactly what stole the spotlight from Rock. The focus wasn't on Rock beating Hogan. It was on Hogan, who was meant to be the heel, being gracious and humble in defeat. I think the post-match even saw Rock ask Hogan to pose with him. Who got put over in that one?

Yes, and it caused that year's split between Hogan and Vince. Vince wanted Hogan to face Brock again at Survivor Series, which Hogan was fine with. The problem was Vince wanted Brock to win again but Hogan refused. The match was called off, and Big Show was hurriedly turned heel to face Brock instead.

I don't think it was a matter of no options, but the way I've read it is that Flair wanted to drop the title to set up a title win at Starrcade '87. The only one foolish enough to agree to being a transitional champion was Garvin. It was Dusty's idea for Flair to drop the title to set up the big Starrcade match. Garvin got the nod because he was the only babyface Dusty was willing to lose to Flair cleanly. The Garvin reign was a disaster.

He passed out. That one did see Hogan put the guy over in losing to him.

Neither of those matches saw Hogan put the other guy over. Hogan lost to them, but he didn't put them over.

TNA have used the disqualification finish a fair number of times over the years in non-championship matches. Earlier this year, Abyss beat Tomko by DQ in a non-title match. Quite why the reigning NWA champion couldn't pin Tomko, who wasn't getting his 'big push' at the time, is another matter.

Probably. It's lame booking to go for the easy out and resort to the DQ finish so many times, especially when it's already been done twice that night in earlier matches. Plus, it's Stone Cold Steve Austin, the biggest star in the company at the time. Was it really necessary to not have him pin any member of the Corporation?

Tons of run-ins from the rest of the Corporation.

In potential good news for Punk, the rating rebounded to a 1.6. Hopefully, it'll go some way to avoiding the planned move to put the belt back on Morrison the moment he gets back.

Austin lost that match, and didn't even pin any of the Corporation members en route to the loss. And to show that a disqualification was the main finish of choice that night: And for a TNA related note on that show, Scott D'Amore was in a dark match.

Yes, CS is after NM. For No Mercy, if Khali pins Rey at Unforgiven then it's seems a given that Khali and Batista come back to be the Smackdown main event. It's a 'B' show, so we'll probably see a non-finish of some kind to set up the four-way at Cyber Sunday. It'll more likely be a non-finish if the main event is Orton over Cena in some fashion, because they'll be ending the PPV with a finish and can afford the non-finish in the secondary main event.

Which seems to indicate that Rey was indeed put in the Unforgiven match to take the fall so the Batista/Khali feud can keep going. If the four-way match is accurate, and Undertaker is still set to get the Smackdown title at Survivor Series, the finish seems likely to get up that match, possibly Taker tombstones Henry but Khali takes Undertaker out and steals the pin.

It's through Gerweck, so take with the usual pinch of salt:

Was that a house show special "this never really happened", or the real thing? I have no idea, but I assume the belts go back to the Rampaging Rednecks very quickly, and at best a casual mention is made of it on commentary.

Test leaving makes room for Scott Hall, who TNA are interested in bringing in. Seriously.