Big Ol' Smitty

Dobbs, you can punish someone without torturing them. I love how people are always concerned about the well being of some murder. Do you think this guy made sure his victims (all 300 or so of them) didn't suffer before killing them? There's a difference between justice and revenge.

VX:

No, we really haven't done much of anything in Darfur besides talk a big game, for fear of ticking off the Chinamen.

BTW, right now we (the US) are obstructing efforts at bringing about a ceasefire or any kind of power sharing agreement in Somalia.

With respect to "meddling in African civil wars"--we fucking caused it! People are dying in large quantities in internecine fighting as we speak, and the humanitarian situation is worse than it was back in the Black Hawk Down days. Anyway, I'm not talking about some Bush style massive unilateral invasion and occupation. I'm talking diplomacy (cheap!) to try to tamp down conflict, possible peacekeeping operations--probably led by the African Union and Arab League with possible aid by the EU and US, possible war crimes investigations, and humanitarian assistance until the situation stabilizes. I'm talking Bosnia/Kosovo or Cyprus here, not Iraq. With respect to the ICU (even though it's largely moot now)--obviously they weren't an ideal government, but frankly, I would much prefer on Saudi Arabia, or shit, even a Syria on the Horn of Africa than fucking Thunderdome. Finally, with respect to the private security firms, no, I don't have any hard data. This stuff hasn't even been going on long enough to tell. But I still think it's the wrong approach. This article discusses private security & pirates in some detail: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/2...acy-protection/

Adjunct Professor

Hey Milky, what do you think about these attacks in India?

Yo Milky, what's up?

Actually, the majority of the populace opposes torture.

Dobbs, you can punish someone without torturing them.

I would have rather we hadn't backed the overthrow of what was seemed to be becoming an actually effectual government in Somalia. But I would argue that, for a fraction of the money that we have pissed away in Iraq, we could go a long way toward preventing Somalia from becoming a breeding ground for anti-American terrorism. See, was that so hard? You went a long way beyond a trite "blow shit up" response there. Unfortunately, here's the latest example of private security firms' valiant protection against Somali pirates: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/af...es-1040257.html Also, as already stated... Also, private security firms have generally proven themselves pretty crappy recently in their prominent role in Iraq. I actually do think some sort of multilateral force designed to deter, engage, kill, and capture pirates is a good short term idea. But it's a band-aid, and the problem is going to persist as long as the failed Somali state exists.

pbone, the way you worded it made it sound like you were claiming that 3rd parties could never be successful anywhere.

Some Somalis hijacking ships, so let's punish them by making other Somalis who have nothing to do with piracy starve to death. Seriously, I know everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but when you're ill-informed and have nothing to offer beyond "blow shit up, torture, & fuck the skinny black people!" it's probably best to keep you dumbassed yokel opinion to yourself. Honestly, Dobbs and Agent--I like you guys--but you guys are way off here.

This is tremendously stupid. No one is "allowing" anything. THERE IS NO GOVERNMENT THERE TO ALLOW OR DISALLOW ANYTHING.

Because it makes Dobbs feel like a big man.

Who? There are already a shitload of naval forces in the area, and the piracy is still going on. The countries of East Africa basically have no naval capability. Meanwhile, most western countries probably figure that it's a whole lot cheaper to risk the occasional hijacking and paying the occasional ransom than maintaining a naval police force along Somalia's really long coast. Think of it this way. Would pirates be able to operate out of, say, Myrtle Beach, SC? No. You have to fight Somali piracy from the land. If you're really interested in learning more about how the situation in Somalia could be improved, and not in just grumping and posturing like Dobbs, you can start here. http://www.crisisgroup.org/home/index.cfm?id=1232&l=1 http://www.enoughproject.org/reports/somalia

Well, that just happened, and it hasn't work out too well.

Whoever.

lol racist Paul

I've always switched between being the faceless poster that has nothing to add and being a douchebag. Thanks for noticing. If it's any consolation, Bob Barron also engages in varying degrees of asshattery at times, as well.

This is actually an issue that I've read and talked about a lot. As long as you have a basically ungoverned Somalia you'll probably continue to see these sorts of things, and I think that helping make Somalia a functioning state is probably going to be a more realistic solution that some sort of international naval police force in the Gulf of Aden. Or maybe the Indian navy will just continue to blow shit up. Background for those of you who haven't been following this part of the world--Somalia had a government that was actually beginning to function rather effectively, which was a welcome change of pace for the country. You can probably figure out what the problem was with this government when I tell you its name: the Islamic Courts Union. So in 2006, the US had our Ethiopian proxies invade and overthrow the ICU. Ethiopia is still kicking around the area (although they are supposed to withdraw before too long), and Somalia now has a government in name only.

3rd parties are more successful & influential in some places--Canada, Germany, India, etc. Not sure what your point is. No, the American system isn't very amenable to 3rd parties, but that doesn't mean nothing can help them.

That sounds really tough. You're a real draft trooper.

Slayer always has disturbing avatars and weird custom member titles that don't really fit his board persona. On another note, November has been kind of a TSM Golden Age of Douchiness with the recent hot streaks by Grungy Punk, Chazz, and now this Porter character.