cabbageboy

Meeks has just recently started this barrage, as in this year. He was hurt most of last year, so perhaps NBA scouts want to see a bit more of a body of work. Still, if he comes out surely he would get drafted with the kind of crazy numbers he's putting up. U of L 69, Pitt 63. Man, I was going nuts over that one, as in "Man, we can't beat these guys....oh, wait maybe we can....crap, they stopped our run....yes, we've got em!" Now it's the Cards and Marquette at the top of the Big East. Two C-USA teams left unbeaten in the Big East, who would believe that?

There were so many places where WCW could have drawn money, and several were mentioned right in this thread. Bret/Hogan was a political nightmare though, I don't know how they would have booked it. Glad someone else shares me views regarding the Fingerpoke angle. It was a goofy way to reunite the NWO and get the belt back on Hogan, but it could have worked considering what it had set up: Goldberg ripped off, now fighting tremendous odds, has to go through the NWO guys and get to Hogan. The problem is that WCW went too far with the Flair/Hogan angle. For this angle to work, Flair needed to be beaten down yet again by the NWO and not get the title, and certainly not do the idiotic double turn with Hogan. It was almost like they disregarded Goldberg in order to push a 50 year old Flair, which is a curious decision. Then later they disregarded Goldberg to push a heel turned DDP, which was even odder.

After all the times Lynn had jobbed to RVD seeing Jerry finally get ONE win for the TV title wouldn't have hurt RVD one iota. The entire booking direction of ECW in 1999 was screwed up by that Taz defection: RVD should have eventually put over Lynn, then Taz should have put over RVD. RVD needed to be the world champion. The notion of a guy being over enough to not need the belt is fine if that guy has already held the title. RVD hadn't held the world title so it was like his character at some point NEEDED the belt. He was a cocky braggart who wanted as many belts as possible: TV title, tag titles with Sabu, etc. Sabu's heel turn on RVD to side with Awesome is one of the best unfinished angles ever. It was beautifully done and made sense on so many levels: Sabu teamed with Awesome in Japan, he was fed up with RVD's abuse, etc. The beauty of the angle is that Sabu and RVD's in fighting had become almost second nature. We had gotten used to RVD making wisecracks about Sabu, or Sabu occasionally challenging him for the TV title. But Sabu finally turned on him....and it was shocking. Of course Sabu left the company soon after, RVD got hurt, and Awesome jumped to WCW, so none of this ever had a real satisfying resolution, but it was a great initial angle.

There were moments of Attitude showing as far back as Diesel tossing Bret through the announce table, but it wasn't any sort of actual new direction until after WM in 1997. Sure, there were insane angles like Austin/Pillman with the gun on Raw, but the basic look of the show remained the same. I mentioned this a bit in a previous thread months ago, but I think Owen Hart was just as instrumental in Austin's development as Bret. Let's face it, Austin had little sympathy during the entire Bret feud. He was a total asshole. But when Owen nearly broke his neck legit it was a shock to the system that basically forced fans to care about the guy. Did anyone really want to see Austin beat the crap out of Bret? Not really, because Bret didn't play it that way. He still wanted to be the hero on some level. Owen was a douche who nearly crippled someone and had no problem being a total heel. If this hadn't happened legit then such an angle almost had to happen with Austin to bring a different dimension of sympathy to his character.

Here's what I didn't get about this show. Why waste Hernandez and his shot in the first 15 mins. of a show and then build up to Bubba Ray Dudley challenging Sting? TNA can't possibly think putting the Dudleys in singles matches on PPV could be a good idea. Why not pull the trigger on Hernandez getting a push? Further, why would Hernandez cash in his briefcase in such a situation? The MEM was at ringside and would obviously run in to prevent him winning.

Guitarist, one thing you mentioned struck me as curious. Why do you think RVD would lose credibility if he lost the TV title in late 1999? He'd held the belt for about 18 months, so would he have really lost anything by losing at long last to Jerry Lynn? Ideally I think RVD should have lost the TV title on TNN in the match where Lynn had the broken ribs. The crowd that night was ready for the title change. From there RVD just says "Okay Jerry you finally won ONE, enjoy your belt. I'm going for the world title." And then go right into RVD/Taz for N2R. RVD wins the belt, Taz leaves.

Zack, I was referring more to what Taz had to look forward to if he had stayed in ECW rather than jumping to the WWF. It was blatant that they were going to job him out to RVD at N2R 99 much the same way that they did anyway, with the Tanaka stuff being placeholder filler until they geared up the RVD feud. This to me was one of Heyman's biggest booking errors. There was never a point in putting the belt on Mike Awesome. He and Tanaka had some great matches for the title, but neither guy was over outside of that particular feud and clearly fans wanted RVD to be the champ. Heyman panicked when Taz signed with the WWF and jobbed him at the first opportunity, but why? Taz couldn't go anywhere until Jan. 2000, so he wasn't taking the belt with him. There was no Montreal situation. Heyman should have kept the title on Taz, then gone with the RVD feud as planned, maybe Taz threatens to take the belt to NY with him, RVD becomes ECW's last hope of regaining their own title, etc. Then you use Taz to put over RVD in a truly meaningful way on his last PPV, and from there go into a variety of cool stuff like RVD/Sabu, RVD/Awesome, RVD/Tanaka.

It was certainly the beginning of the end for ECW, but there was some awesome stuff on there. Any show that in a 1 year span produced matches like RVD/Lynn, Tanaka/Awesome, Mikey/Tajiri vs. The FBI, etc. can't be all bad. Oddly enough I think losing the Dudleys hurt worse than Taz. They were the company's top heels for most of 1998-99 and also the tag champs. Taz was the world champ but he might as well have left when he did, since he was just jobbing to RVD at some point (likely N2R 99) and wasn't likely to be pushed so hard again.

The whole Neidhart angle on this show is an underrated gem. It's of course a great way to bury a guy on his way out, but it's terrific. DX got a guy from a rival group to sell out his beliefs (and family) to join them, then they kick his ass anyway.

I don't know the exact date but to me the beginning of the Attitude Era was when the WWF completely changed the look of Raw right after WM 13. That was when Raw went to 2 hours full time and became very much the show we still see now. Of course for the official start it was right after Montreal, when the Attitude vignettes started airing. The end was WM 17 in 2001. From there it was the Invasion Era which bridged into the Brand Extension Era that still exists.

Having recently checked out GNR I don't really think their music is hair metal at all. Their look was certainly that of a seedier looking hair band of the late 1980s, but an album like Appetite for Destruction is definitely not hair metal. It's not overproduced, it sounds violent and aggressive, there's all sorts of profanity tossed around casually. If anything that album is unlike nearly anything else from that era, with only the singles being dated (Sweet Child O Mine, Paradise City).

One thing I've noticed in the past year or so is Cena's matches really don't even draw that much heat anymore. The way his whole return was handled last year (winning the Rumble out of nowhere, cashing in at No Way Out, losing at WM) is something that may well have burnt out people on Cena. Even in a "I hate this guy" sort of way. Another thing to note is that Cena's matches only work while watching it live. Try watching a Cena match on DVD after you've already seen it and there's no suspense as to who wins. The crowd doesn't mean as much in that context.

This HHH/Vickie angle is bizarre on so many levels. For the most part it is HHH being a total dick to her rather than a heel GM screwing someone over. In storyline terms HHH has been tormenting Vickie for weeks on end, so why shouldn't she punish him by making him #1 in the Rumble? This angle is a stark contrast to the Jeff Hardy angle, where it's clear someone is out to take him down, with Jeff in this case having done nothing to warrant it.

Jodie Meeks is an absolute madman. Tennessee doesn't play much D but that was still unreal tonight. 54 against a rival on the road?

Jim Rice really isn't a HOF player, though it was likely the very thing that hampered his popularity during his playing days (his chilly relations with the media) that caused writers now to take pity on him and put him in. But really....382 HRs? 2452 hits? .298 lifetime average? There are a ton of solid pros from the 70s and 80s that have similar numbers. I wish my boy Grace could get in, but that's more of a sentimental deal than his actual numbers deserving it. Someone like Grace would almost have to get 3000 hits to be in, but he only ended up at 2445. A few years ago when I went to L.A. I had a baseball talk with an older guy and the subject of base stealing came up. I rightly noted that Henderson was the best of all time at it, but he insisted on Maury Wills being the best he'd ever seen because "He could steal bases easier and was faster." Since Wills played before I was born, I didn't quite know how to refute that except for the actual stats.

1. Will we ever see Randy Savage in the world of professional wrestling again? Even in a non wrestling capacity (say getting inducted into a certain Hall of Fame)? Or do you think he's the rare case of a wrestler who saved his money over his career and is content in retirement? --He could always do some sort of cameo for some promotion, or end up back in TNA for a stint. As far as the HOF I do think eventually Savage will be in, even if it takes years and Vince is dead by then. For the most part, Savage is likely fine being retired. 2. Do you think his sterling WWF heyday was in anyway tarnished by his mostly mediocre WCW (Post DDP feud) and TNA runs? Has it been tarnished by the rumors regarding his WWF departure that sprang up after his retirement? --Nah, his WCW run was actually quite good up until his bad knee injury in early 1998. He never really came back from that since he was mid 40s by then. The goofy rumors mean little to me since none of it has been proven, and even if it's true I don't think it hurts his WWF work at all. 3. Where would Savage rank in a list of The Greatest of His Era? Greatest of All Time? --If we are talking about the 1985-92 era, he ranks #3 behind only Hogan and Flair. The man was a huge big match player from roughly WM 3 until WM 8. He could wrestle, draw heat, cut a promo, play heel, play face. Macho was awesome. 4. Don't usually like to divulge in this type of gossip but what are your thoughts on the rumors RE: Savage's estrangement from WWE? Is it a result of his unreasonable demands? A result of an affair with Stephanie? Savage just being content in retirement? Something entirely different? --Maybe there's something to the Stephanie rumors, I don't know or care a whole lot. Maybe Vince just never forgave Savage for leaving in 1994. I'm not really sure why since he was mostly announcing by that point, but at the end of the day Savage hasn't been much since his last ill fated WCW run in 1999. His last notable match was the toilet brawl with Dennis Rodman, haha. 5. Favorite moments, matches, etc. --WM 3 with Steamboat, his entire run at WM 4, the entire Megapowers angle with Hogan (in particular the great Main Event show with his heel turn), WM 5 with Hogan, WM 7 with Warrior, the Jake feud with the snake biting him, the match with Flair at WM 8, and the various stuff he did after that in 1992. In fact, his title loss to Flair in late 1992 was the end of Savage's prime. I even liked the WCW version of that feud in 1996, with Liz now siding with Flair.

The NWO angle had a few good months before it got really stale, I can say that from watching the old Nitros on 24/7. By early 1997 it was already stale as hell compared to the WWF's crazy new direction. Bischoff put all his eggs in that Starrcade 1997 basket. Most of 1997 was filler to get to that show. When you're a booker and you do that then you better deliver big on that show, and he certainly did not. Here's what a lot of people never got about the WCW invasion: There was a total lack of suspense behind it. By early 2001 WCW was a dead in the water brand name. These guys weren't on the WWF's level, so what could Vince really do with that group if they invaded? No one wanted to see that proposed scenario where WCW would take over Raw and make it Nitro. That idea would have sucked and pissed off TNN to no end as well.

This angle would be better if they would just form the full stable already. How long has this angle been going on? Typically a faction just gets together, guys have common interests, and they....form. These guys did this bizarre antagonistic stuff for months, it gets muddled, members shift before the faction is even established, etc.

I have to admit, the whole Manu/Snuka angle tonight was amusing. Once they mentioned having another guy with them you had to know whoever it was would simply turn on them and join Orton. So basically they are back to Orton/DiBiase/Rhodes, which is what it originally was. Just need a 4th guy now.

Philadelphia 35, Arizona 17. This is the exact score I predicted for Carolina/Arizona. A part of me would enjoy seeing the perennially awful Cardinals get to the Super Bowl (and get waxed), but that Thanksgiving night game is stuck in my head. Eagles should win this handily unless McNabb suddenly pulls a Delhomme and wrecks the Eagles in this game. Arizona was 6-2 at home this year, with the two losses being to the Giants and Vikings, the two teams the Eagles just beat.

Baltimore 17, Pittsburgh 10. This certainly will not be a high scoring affair, in fact it would almost be disappointing if anyone scored over 20. This is a very tough game to call, since on one hand it's tough to see a team with a rookie QB getting to the Super Bowl. On the other hand it's hard to see the Steelers beating the Ravens 3 times, especially when the Ravens seemed like the better team in the previous matchups and lead for most of those games. The Titans/Ravens game last week? Kid's play compared to this one. This is the epitome of all things manly. Flacco just needs to play within himself, that's all. Roethisberger is due for another 3 INT day, and if that happens the Ravens will convert enough to win.

My favorite Steiner WCW interview was his crazed rant on Goldberg where he said he would treat Goldberg like one of his freaks, that his freaks scream and moan when they see the Big Dipper, and the world rotates on a 36 degree axis, etc. I can't do it justice, but who can? For TNA his funniest is when he ranted on Christian for being Canadian white trash. Though he's had other moments as well, like when he kept calling Tomko a redneck and Joe a fat bastard half breed.

At this point these good matches on Nitro hadn't yet become ultra stale. In fact watching both of these shows I was thinking "Wow, WCW had Jericho, Rey, Eddie, Malenko...all this great talent. The WWF was pushing a few top level guys along with a bunch of scrubs that they managed to convince fans were decent." As we get into 1998 it will become more apparent that the only fun stuff on Nitro was the non NWO related segments, though I doubt we get to see the Benoit/Booker series.

I never knew that DDP story about him faxing his match planning to UT. I wonder if the end result was something like "And for the finish, I hit you with the Diamond Cutter for the 1-2-3 in the center, daddy!" DDP's meticulous planning is great for having a decent match with a mediocre worker (Bagwell, even David Flair, or as noted a washed up Savage circa 1997), but it tends to limit what a great worker can do.

Wow, that was one of the more shocking playoff results ever. Even the few who thought the Cardinals could win this game likely didn't think they would squash the Panthers like that. How can Carolina even think about bringing Jack Delhomme back after that debacle?