cabbageboy

Here is one thing I am curious about for Vengeance: I thought I heard Taz suggest tonight that RVD was defending the ECW title on the PPV, not just the WWE title. If that is true then how does Edge simply go over in that situation? I mean, don't they kinda have to do some sort of disputed finish where Edge ends up with the WWE belt and RVD gets the ECW belt? Even the ultra idiotic stuff from last week is leading in some sort of actual direction. The one dude who stopped Kelly from stripping will probably go somewhere, and I think The Sandman will get to squash the Jobber of the Week for a while until finally one guy actually fights back and that will end up being a feud. Still, the markout for me personally tonight? Sabu speaks!

What the hell, I actually quite enjoyed this show tonight (despite the male ass). At least this show had some real chaotic fire and energy for the first time in a long while, and yes I think DX is the catalyst for it. That and the ECW stuff on the show. I loved Sabu putting Cena through the announce table. Cena has the ultimate dumbshit sell of a beatdown. He just stares blankly into space.

Booker's title push in WCW is the epitome of "I like the music but they aren't playing the notes right." I think it goes in with Russo's obsession with the net quite honestly. See, on the net people had wondered for years when Booker was going to get a bigger push. The fans at large however didn't worry a huge amount about whether Booker got pushed or not, but I think would certainly have bought him as a threat to any belt with the right build.

I actually think that the Mavs may well be done here. They lost a crushing game last night and it could go either way tomorrow. Will they show up to play and rout the Heat...or will they be out of gas and the Heat close it? If this does go 7 though, I think the Mavs likely win it.

Ronnie Garvin is more of a guy who flat out shouldn't have been the world champ than a guy who didn't deserve it at all. As much as I wanted to just trash Justin Credible I really can't. Much like Garvin, he was another guy who might not have been undeserving per se, but shouldn't have won the title. I mean the guy was at least an ECW loyalist and his feud with Lynn was pretty solid. As far as undeserving I gotta go with Mike Awesome. I ask anyone: What in the hell did Awesome do to possibly warrant winning the ECW title in Sept. 99? The guy hadn't been seen in the promotion for about a year. I've always thought Heyman panicked with that move. He should have just kept the belt on Taz till N2R 99, then jobbed him to RVD as it ended up anyway.

I'll try and explain why I always am way more psyched for Raw than SD: --As Lushus said, watching wrestling on Monday is a tradition. Every Monday I always get a bit excited hoping to see SOMETHING good on Raw. My excitement for SD is about like watching Thunder. --SD has jack shit actually happening on the show. Let's face it, there might be a couple of solid matches on a typical SD but the show just feels so 2nd rate. --WWE doesn't care about SD...why should I?

Hyper, there were a few potshots taken at ECW on the PPV. Or the pre show. Bubba Ray made comments saying ECW's product sucked and he'll show them how it's done. The thing I found goofy is that the Team 3D match wasn't all THAT vicious of a match. There were shots taken at the zombie and vampire from ECW's Tuesday show.

Here's the thing though: Why put the belt on Edge again? It's obvious that HHH and Co. won't let the guy get over as a truly top tier player, so putting the title on him only to have him turn around and job it back to Cena is pointless. Also, shouldn't RVD have SOME kind of successful WWE title defense. Instead of the Foley/Flair match going multiple falls, this match needs multiple falls. One fall for the ECW belt, one for WWE. Edge wins the WWE, RVD retains the ECW....both guys get over, both guys get belts, both Raw and ECW come out looking fairly equal.

Rob Van Dam's title win over John Cena has obviously been heavily discussed over the past few days. But there is another aspect of RVD's win that hasn't been mentioned. With that win RVD is now one of 3 men to hold all the WWE title belts: WWE heavyweight title, IC title, European title, WWE tag titles, and the WWE Hardcore title (RVD's European title win was over Jeff Hardy and the belt was unified with the IC title). The other 2 here would be Kurt Angle and Chris Jericho. The other 3 members of the Grand Slam club (Shawn Michaels, HHH, Eddie Guerrero) didn't win the Hardcore title. The amusing aspect is that Jericho and Angle both hard hardcore title wins that lasted all of a minute. Jericho won it on the May 28, 2001 Raw from The Big Show and immediately lost it to Rhyno on the same show, while Angle beat RVD for it on Sept. 10, 2001 only to have RVD cover him right back and regain.

The US title may have been defended a bit more on major shows, but it was mostly due to the guys having it and the situation. The IC wasn't even around in 2003 for WM, but Orton was involved in a bigger feud in 2004 than merely defending the IC at WM. And Shelton has been in a bigger match than an IC match the past 2 years (MITB) so it's not like the IC champ has been buried and not even ON WM. You know, like Orlando Jordan. Orlando Jordan had a 5 month US title reign. That alone cinches it for the IC in my book. Add to it that the US title was brought in as a joke belt and given to Kanyon in 2001 with no explanation.

That's kind of my point. I did stop watching in late 1989/early 90, I forget exactly why but it was mostly that Hogan and Flair constantly having the titles was boring me. Nothing against them, but after a guy wins the title a bunch of times what else is there? The point I was trying to make with Styles is that he's accomplished everything he possibly can in TNA. He probably wouldn't do it, but I'd be quite interested in seeing him do something on SD or in ECW.

Why exactly are you guys shocked? Let's face it, this IS Jeff Jarrett's promotion. Hell, the notion of TNA being all about Jarrett is so firmly ingrained in the fans that I honestly don't think anyone will take TNA seriously as long as he is there. Many a time I have my dad ask me "When's Jarrett gonna get the belt back?" TNA cannot and will not ever go anywhere as long as the main event is all about Jeff Jarrett holding the title, or Jarrett constantly proclaiming he deserves the title back. The potshots at ECW tonight were silly and quite honestly came off as sour grapes in my view (TNA could only dream of getting a 2.8). Bubba Ray's comment after that match "That's how it is DONE!" is so bogus considering last week at ONS Foley and Funk were out there killing each other with fire and barbed wire. The best match tonight was obviously the tag title match, but in the end I have no idea what point there is. Styles in particular has seriously done about all he can do in TNA. He's held the NWA title, the X title, and the tag belts all on multiple occasions. I actually am really into this Nash stuff though, it's really hilarious. I dare say it is the best stuff on the show.

Iggy, here's what worries me: Now that RVD has the WWE title, how do you get it off him and not ruin ECW? I mean if he just goes to Vengeance and jobs to Edge then ECW is left with a headliner that had a lame 2 week WWE title run. The Catch 22 is that they need to quit this cross promotion crap and the only way to do it is for WWE to reclaim the belt and ECW can go on its merry way. I say this is the time to do a double pin or a match with 2 falls (one for ECW title, one for WWE).

I think this desperately needs to be some sort of no DQ brawl match because I can't see any way these guys can keep it interesting for 3 falls.

Well I'm not counting cruiser stuff since RVD has never competed in that weight class and neither has Angle. I'm trying to think, did Angle ever have a cup of coffee with the US title during the Invasion? Consider this though: RVD is now the WWE champ, the ECW champ, and if Rey's belt had been on the line he'd also be the World champ.

RVD/Lynn with Jerry have the broken ribs is one of ECW's all time best matches. I watched it the other day and it's still awesome. I'd also have a heap of Tanaka/Awesome on this list. The Heatwave one from 1998 is like their 5th best match. I'd say the two best I recall were the Christmas Eve 99 one on TNN, then the New Year's Eve rematch.

I don't think RVD, Angle, and Sabu will all job at the PPV. It'd be suicide for ECW. Now Sabu? He will obviously job, but hopefully after doing something insane to wipe himself out. I actually think Angle will win, since it makes no sense to put Orton over ANYONE at this point. That leaves RVD. This one is tricky. I mean shouldn't he have some sort of successful WWE title defense before losing it? I'd almost make his match with Edge a 2 falls match. First fall is ECW, 2nd WWE (vice versa). Thus Edge can win the WWE, RVD retains the ECW. The main problem with that match is that I have no idea what we're supposed to want out of it. Are we supposed to want RVD to hold the WWE hostage on another show? Are we supposed to want the evil Edge to reclaim the WWE title? I've wanted to see this match for a while, mind you, but I think the crowd is liable to be dead for it since they have no idea what to think.

I don't think anyone understood what I meant earlier about the show needing to be 2 hours. There was no time to do anything last night. The opening segment would be ok for the average Raw but on a 1 hour show it was excessive. It felt pretty much like the 1st hour of a mediocre Raw, without something like an RVD title defense to close the show. It's like the first hour of a 2 hour show without the 2nd hour to redeem it. I've been watching these old ECW episodes on the 24/7 deal. Those shows were very hit or miss as well.

Truth be told, if there was a big problem I had with the show is that it seemed like there were too many commercials. They really need 2 hours. This stuff tonight would be fun for half of a show, but then it just warms you up for the RVD title defense in the main event. Know what I mean? Lighten up though. I mean hell, this was nowhere near WCW mid to late 1999 level bad. Some of this stuff like the Zombie and the Vampire dude you just have to go with and laugh at. It wasn't meant to be serious.

I don't think this thing will last much beyond Vengeance. I can't help but think that this whole collusion angle that JR and King pondered tonight is going to go as follows: --Cena will be added to the mix at Vengeance. --In the match RVD and Edge both kick his ass and then they do the old UT/Kane vs. Austin finish where both pin him. Thus Edge gets what he wants (WWE title) and RVD gets what he wants (ECW title). But seriously, after Vengeance enough is enough. Let ECW go on their merry way and establish a separate identity.

I don't have any problem with ECW simply branching off and recognizing RVD as champ. Let's face it, that's how a lot of promotions are started. The AWA was started when Verne Gagne broke off and declared himself world champion. The WWWF was started when Vince Sr. and Co. didn't recognize a Thesz/Rogers title change and kept the belt on Buddy Rogers (very shortly since Sammartino beat him soon after). Hell, ECW as the "Extreme" promotion was started by Shane Douglas throwing down the NWA belt.

I read a few minutes ago that RVD is going to be at the Vengeance press conference. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there an ECW house show that same night? Man, I'd be ultra pissed if I had tickets for that show expecting to see RVD: WWE champion. Meanwhile he's off at the PPV jobbing the belt in a 3 way. About all they really can do with this if they leave the belt on RVD is do that 3 way, then have him not factor into the decision. Heyman won't recognize this as a title change since in ECW a 3 way is elimination style. Thus, the WWE title is back on Raw, RVD can still be ECW champ since Heyman won't recognize that title change, and RVD can stay strong.

If they aren't going to strip him of the belt, then what exactly ARE they going to do? I assumed they would do a bizarre half Dusty Finish/half schism brand split with Vince saying RVD was not the WWE champion, but Heyman disagrees and still considers him his ECW champion. Honestly, the only thing they can do is put RVD in a 3 way at Vengeance with Edge/Cena (and since they are doing Edge/Cena tonight 1 on 1 maybe they aren't doing that match at the PPV). Cena pins Edge or Edge pins Cena, then Heyman calls bullshit and says that in ECW they do a real 3 way and since RVD was never pinned he still considers him his ECW champ. It's a little convoluted, but it could work.

Hey, I'd have settled for the Motorhead version. Or would HHH have been jealous? I don't think RVD will be on Raw again after tomorrow night. He hasn't been on many Raw house shows of late and isn't advertised at all for Vengeance. I'm reasonably sure tomorrow night will be the last night of RVD on Raw, or any ECW guys on Raw for the forseeable future. I can see the SD crossovers more since that is taped the same night.

This is really, really weird. There is seriously no mention of RVD winning here whatsoever. And Vince being more preoccupied with HHH and the Spirit Squad rather than a guy renaming his title belt and possibly running off with it?