cabbageboy

See, I think Tanaka always basically carried Awesome. I have actually seen Tanaka have some very watchable matches with others in ECW (someone mentioned a Balls Mahoney match), but Awesome couldn't find very many guys willing to take such huge amounts of punishment. Maybe Spike, but that was a joke for a main event feud. The Tanaka matches got everyone so high on Awesome that his routine matches couldn't help but disappoint.

Dames I thought that exact same thing watching the show tonight. I was like "Okay JBL is kicking out of all this shit UT is doing to him, but yet jobs quietly to ONE FU from Cena??" These shows this week have been so horrible. It's a mix of a couple of things: 1. I'm still hungover from the ECW PPV and don't care about any of this crap on Raw of SMDN right now. 2. The draft is killing the shows right now, Smackdown especially. They have no world champ on the show right now, there's really no issues, and even the one good feud they had (Eddie/Rey) has petered out for a variety of reasons. Surprised no one mentioned the JBL promo badmouthing ECW. Anyone else wondering what it meant for ECW's future on the show?

The 1989 Batman was odd in that it really didn't give you much backstory to speak of. It tosses in a few details like his parents getting killed but it isn't a real ORIGIN type deal (like Spidey, Daredevil, etc). The 89 film is dated in terms of the Prince soundtrack and all that, very 80s at times. Nicholson is still great, but I always thought they focused way too much on The Joker in the film. I mean it's supposed to be Batman, not The Joker (with some Batman).

Hunter's Quad, I gave insight into Awesome earlier in this thread. In Awesome you have a guy who really isn't good on the mic, and in a standard wrestling match he's highly mediocre. I doubt anyone in WCW would have cared about him being the Fat Chick Thriller if he was putting people through tables and being a bad ass. Thing is in a regular match he couldn't do all that stuff and he really isn't good enough to do anything else. In fact I can't think of a really notable must see match he has ever had that didn't involve Tanaka in some way.

Dude, if this PPV brings in the money like we have heard thus far you can certainly count on there being more ECW events. Vince might be blind in some ways but not to $$$.

I might have to say Joey Styles just trashing Mike Awesome for leaving ECW the way he did, only to praise the hell out of him by the end of that match. I'm surprised no one has said Bischoff getting his ass kicked.

What is this buring them? Don't you mean burying? Anyway I thought watching it that JBL was getting into the match as it went on, but was staying semi in character with the occasional mockery. Besides, it's not like Bradshaw has ever had many non gimmick matches that were better. Astro, I sorta know what you mean but you missed the point of the PPV. The matches by definition didn't have strong emotional storylines behind them...they were barely even mentioned going in, just on a net website. It was essentially an exhibition, a cliff's notes version of ECW and its workers. ECW is something that was always very much of a "right here, right now" thing. As in you have to see it at the exact moment it is on TV (whether the show is live or taped, whatever) or else it tends to lose its impact. For instance the RVD/Bigelow match. I saw that one on TV in April 1998, not particularly expecting anything but by the end I was jumping out of my chair. If I'd heard about that match for weeks and how good it was I likely would have been somewhat jaded going in. Same thing with this PPV. The scary thing is that they could easily do a followup PPV that is better. Just get a similar crowd (dare I say at a bigger venue like the Spectrum?), have a healthy RVD wrestling, bring in New Jack for some pillage, get Malenko this time, etc.

Cyclops wasn't in all that much of X2 and it was better for it really. I remember as a kid watching those cartoons on TV and the Cyclops/Jean Grey stuff just sucked the life out of those shows too, with all that "I love you, Scott" and "I love you, Jean" crap. There is a reason the X Men cartoons aren't as well remembered as the Batman cartoons of the same time period. At least the first film played off of how cheesy that stuff is and it was amusing. As far as Halle Berry goes, who the fuck is she to demand a larger role at this point? Has she EVER drawn a dime as a lead actress? Take a look at some of her vehicles like Gothika and Catwoman. Christ, at least the Bond people had the common sense to tell her to fuck off when she wanted to do a Jinx spinoff.

The only thing you'd really have to cut down on UPN would be the ultra profane interviews, and as I said that stuff can be beeped anyway since they already beep SMDN to some extent. Besides, it's not like the show would be on UPN for much longer anyway. I almost think they should use this to show the gradual decline of SMDN as a show...it being moved to Fridays shows it is past its prime and change is needed. Maybe add it a heel GM to replace Long and run the show into the ground, screw over the faces, etc. All this time the roster becomes more and more subtly ECW oriented. By the time Smackdown's contract expires with UPN you can have some epic match with a Smackdown loyalist (JBL or someone) and an ECW guy like RVD to determine the fate of the show on its new network, which I assume is USA or something. RVD of course wins and then the show that debuts on the new network would be the ECW show. I think that makes sense and would be a fun way to do it, rather than have a watered down ECW on UPN that was once again on Friday nights.

Yeah I'm not sure why people think HHH is winning at HIAC. I recall hearing months ago the idea was to have Cena and Batista essentially switch shows with the titles. Thus HHH can then feud with Cena and humiliate him, while Batista can dick around on SMDN for a while with JBL. Basically the draft lottery is merely the excuse to keep the same stale assholes on top. I don't get this UT/Orton stuff. The way they are setting it up calls for Orton to get his ass kicked, yet he badly needs the win vs. UT.

Cyclops blows anyway but how in the hell could you kill off Prof. X and Magneto? Isn't that a bit, I dunno, insane?

Just wondering but does anyone know who in the cable industry tossed out the 800,000 number and why? This could start a new trend: PPVs with no matches announced on TV! Ironically enough it was tough to be too angry about that since ECW never bothered to announce shit anyway. Or changed the entire card the day of the show. Rarely did I ever get an ECW PPV and have it be the exact show I thought it'd be. I think as long as you beep stuff out you're good to go. I mean hell ECW was on TNN back when it was hicks and yokels, and I'd say UPN is edgier than that. It's a matter of perception. If a proposed ECW show is treated as the equal of Raw then people will buy into it. You have to admit there is some delicious irony in this idea though. ECW once again being relegated to Friday nights on a network that doesn't give a shit about them.

WCW also only has a few years that most fans would be interested in seeing. Roughly 1996-98 or so, before that it was a lot of old hasbeen crap and bad gimmicks and before even that it was archaic early 90s stuff that has dubious interest for most people today. That 96-98 period was the only time when I thought the company had a real clear cut style and direction to it. It was focused. Thing is, I don't know how one could do a WCW oriented DVD without really trashing the later years badly (and not in a sympathetic way a la the ECW disc). I mean who would pay to see "WCW 1999: The Hummer Era" on DVD? Well besides me. But then I always had a curious fascination with that awful angle, haha. Another problem with doing a WCW show is that it really wouldn't be much different than a standard PPV. Hell the NWO has already been on WWE TV so that has been done. Who is really a "WCW guy" anyway? Maybe Sting, but he's about the only notable draw that has never been in the WWF/E. The concept of the ECW PPV was to do something that looked and feeled very different, and with a WCW PPV you'd get the same format as a Raw.

Exactly, if anything I got the impression from the whole Vince/Heyman/Bischoff thing that this would be a PPV to launch ECW as a viable product again, or if it didn't do so hot then it'd be a nice reunion show. Since it did well apparently I can't see Vince (either storywise or real life) just dropping it.

I also don't think they could maintain 800,000 buys a PPV, but my god who could? But if it did this kind of buyrate they almost have to do something to capitalize on it. You'd have to be a fool not to try. I actually don't think that many people bought this ECW PPV with the thought in mind that "This is the last time I'll ever see these guys, I better buy it!" Maybe a few, but ECW's PPV audience during its existence was nowhere near this big. They had a huge amount of people buy this show apparently and I think it's because people want something different.

Why edit it out? I mean it's not like RVD's comments were anything similar to Heyman's wild shoot later on where he ranted at everything and everyone. Touchy, are we WWE creative?

Well it is a very early estimate so no one knows for 100% sure yet. I guess this time a lot of people are highly interested in seeing how it did, whereas most people already know WM will do serious business.

And then hopefully job the ECW title to RVD at SS? Hey I can hope.

No way will Madagascar be ahead of Smith. It'd have to somehow gain $$ while Mr. and Mrs. Smith falls off something insane which I can't see happening. Even if it falls about 50% that's still a nice 25 million or so, which will be solid 2nd place.

Well yeah, it's an act of defiance to say "Fuck Vengeance!" Sure it won't really change much of anything either way but this is a way of fans to stick it to HHH by not buying a PPV with his stale act, going against Batista for the 3RD TIME. And yes, they are in fact blatantly loading this show up with top matches in some bizarre attempt to outshine the ECW PPV (which basically had zero hype matchwise). I might even watch this PPV, but I am going to get a laugh out of them loading the PPV with top guys only to have the ECW show beat their ass anyway.

Exactly, it is so blatant that they are building Vengeance up for some goofy reason which is stupid because Vengeance is by definition a nothing PPV and there is no way in hell 800,000 people will buy the fucking thing. Are they really expecting WM type numbers for a jobber PPV? It'll do a bit higher than the avg. single show PPV but not that much. And this Raw was dreary crap tonight. After that emotional, brilliant PPV last night I just couldn't give two shits about seeing the likes of Muhammed Hassan and Chris Masters on my TV.

So true, dude. That Raw tonight was such a dreary hangover of a show, and ironically enough I saw a guy in the crowd with a sign saying Monday Night Hangover.

I wouldn't doubt these numbers really. I have no concrete evidence of this but just from the buzz I got it seemed like everyone I knew wanted to see this PPV. My friend Ian's wife bought him the PPV as an early Father's Day present and they almost NEVER get a PPV (he usually comes over to watch em). As far as that odd Massacre on 34th St. PPV, I seem to recall someone saying it was part of a PPV package deal or something that led to it having a big buyrate that didn't reflect the company at the time.

Well to some degree I can see Eddie's point here. Let's face it: He isn't really an ECW guy. Sure, he competed there in 1994-95 or so but he's hardly someone you think of when you think ECW. Eddie has done way too much in his career in WCW and then the WWF/E to be defined by a brief ECW stay. I think his match last night was hurt mostly by Eddie staying in heel character mode. It's trickier though since Jericho could morph back easier, just put on an old jacket and he's ready to go. No drastic change there. With Eddie though he'd have to go from uber dick heel to cheerful Eddie with the campy looking red jacket that sparkled. It'd have been cool as well to see Rey wear an old mask. I won't fault Rey much though, he was a bit injured. I know someone said he wrestled the OVW Six Flags show here in Louisville, but having been to a few OVW tapings I can assure you there is a world of difference between dicking around at half speed with some trainees and going balls out at an ECW show.

It's not like they had Eddie jobbing out to some ECW guy who hadn't been on TV in 4 years. He was jobbing to friggin Benoit, that's hardly a bad loss. On a reunion type show. Had Deano been at this show I would have been amused by Eddie jobbing to him moreso than Benoit.