cabbageboy

I don't necessarily have a problem with this since if you remember there was a fairly big WWF/ECW angle with cross promotion back in the day. If anything it plays off the notion that some in the WWF dislike ECW and consider it inferior garbage wrestling. Chill out, guys. Bischoff and his bums are going to get the everloving shit beat out of them at this PPV. Anything else would be a total waste of time. Then they can keep this going by having Bisch get pissed at the ECW loyalists on Raw, they can form a faction, etc.

I assume that "quit using wrestling terms" comment was directed at me calling the Trade Federation the lamest heels ever? Heel isn't just a wrestling term, it refers to any sort of bad guy be it movie or wrestling, etc. As with Uncle Billy in It's a Wonderful Life: "Not every heel was in Germany or Japan." I maintain that the Trade Federation guys are worse than Jar Jar. Jar Jar was mostly there for dorky comedy relief, kind of an animated Stepin Fetchit (Yowsa Massa Qui Gon, yowsa). He's lame and at times cringeworthy but the Trade Federation are the same sort of embarrassing cartoon ethnic stereotypes (vaguely Asian), but they are the main heels of at least the first film and still important throughout the trilogy. Not to mention they are crapped on from the outset. Qui Gon calls them lame cowards, their plans are dictated by Sidious, who is playing them as Palpatine behind their backs. When your main heel tactic is "I'll put an embargo on yo ass!" you are a lame heel.

Why do I see nothing here with Eddie and Rey? You know, between Bischoff's jobbers and the SMDN crew is there going to be any ECW on the ECW PPV?

This series has been one sided only in terms of results. The only game that wasn't real competitive was the game 3 win for the Spurs. If Phoenix could simply hold a friggin 4th quarter lead they'd be UP 3-1 in this series instead of down 3-1. Iggy was making these goofy comments on the NCAA tourney, riding dead horses like Ga Tech (or here the T-Wolves). Arguing that the Suns aren't as good as the Mavs is absurd considering the Mavs just lost a 7 game series to them. You can make these cases for the NCAA tourney where it's one and done (i.e. Kentucky might have beaten Michigan St. in a 7 game series), but the whole point of these long and drawn out affairs is to show who is conclusively better. Denver is basically the equivalent of these teams that gets hot late to make a tourney run, but once they get there had nothing left. Arguing for Minnesota is like arguing for the Grizzlies the first round.

The question isn't "Why kill the Separtists/Trade Federation?" It's more like "Why not?" They were dumbasses, easily manipulated for a time, but as long as they were out there the Clone Wars could be started again and once the Emperor had total control they really served no purpose. Besides, the Trade Federation are the lamest heels in cinema history....if I can't get a Jar Jar death scene, I can live with seeing those dipshits get whacked by Vader.

Ah hell, at least I'm trying to come up with something. If they're going to have the ECW PPV and sell ECW DVDs then they might as well try to revive ECW. If Vince was willing to sink money in a boondoggle like the WBF, why not attempt to revive ECW? WCW isn't really a feasible scenario since it is widely viewed as a loser federation at this point. Years of incessant trashing have done that. It would also mean Vince handing over reign to Bischoff and I'm not sure he'd ever do that.

One difference is that the 2002-2004 period flat out sucked anyway, whereas the 1990-92 period produced some really brilliant and timeless matches and angles that I still enjoy to this day. Anyway I am sick of these worthless bimbos on Raw as well and was glad Victoria beat the shit out of them.

Smackdown is leagues above Raw right now. Just compare the last SMDN PPV with the last Raw PPV. Eddie/Rey is vastly more intense and interesting than anything on Raw at the moment, Cena is improving as champion (which kinda shocks me), and the Angle/Booker stuff is at least so bad it's funny. I know that Benoit and Shelton are on Raw but neither man really has any sustained direction to speak of. Benoit feuds with Edge, then defends ECW's honor, then dicks around with Edge some more despite not even really being in a feud with him (Edge is more concerned with Kane and winning the title than fighting Benoit). Shelton does stuff with Jericho, then fights Hassan, then doesn't do anything. The show is all over the place booking wise. SMDN also has a better sense of who is a heel and who is a face.

I agree on Angle as well, but it'd be after the whole ECW PPV and what not. Let Masters take out a couple more actual wrestlers first. Then Angle breaks it, but Masters then challenges him for the gold medals. If they are serious about pushing this bum might as well do something that would already make sense.

Kahran I can see bemoaning the loss of Guinness but why Cushing? Tarkin was a thoroughly mediocre heel I thought, resorting to cheap heat by blowing up planets and that sort of thing. I shit you not, I all but forgot Peter Cushing was even IN the film until I watched it again, that's how much better Vader was as a heel. I do agree that Ford was cashing the paycheck in Jedi but scriptwise Han has little to do in the film. After being rescued from Jabba he's blind for a while and then mostly fights the gimp stormtroopers on Endor. Hell, Lando has more important stuff to do in the film, like blow up the Death Star. I agree that the Endor stuff is the weakest part of the film but it still has the most compelling stuff in the trilogy (Luke/Vader/Emperor) as well as the best space battle. RobotJerk, you're right about Maul. He never could be more than an enforcer type heel, a thug. Not counting Anakin/Vader as a total heel I'd say that Count Dooku is the 2nd best heel in the series behind only the Emperor. Dooku is the man, authoritative, dignified, and extremely powerful.

Raw's main problem is that there is really nothing going on right now. Seriously, Smackdown of late has had legit feuds and issues between wrestlers. Aside from HHH's neverending world title crap, Raw doesn't really have much going on. There's also Bischoff's vendetta with ECW but that's an abstract feud that takes years of understanding to really grasp. I suppose the Edge/Jobbers beating up Benoit was fairly compelling tonight but it didn't seem like "Bischoff's thugs beating up an ECW guy" but moreso just "Edge and Co. attack Benoit as part of an existing feud." It's odd that they are featuring Benoit so much in this ECW angle since most fans don't associate Benoit with ECW in the least, and he's certainly not the most ideal guy to do violent hardcore matches like they want to feature. Thing is, we KNOW these Raw chumps are going to get killed come June 12. 100%, it's going to happen. While I doubt they care how bad Snitsky, Maven, and Tomko get trashed I have to wonder if they want Edge or Angle getting owned. If Edge gets his I'd think Benoit would do that for revenge. I know they've announced some matches online but are they going to actually give the full lineup on TV? It's seems really dumb not to.

Thing is I have seen Tanaka vs. Awesome about 150 times and I have long since been burned out on it. It'd be like booking RVD vs. Jerry Lynn if Van Dam was healthy. I'd use this PPV to book some wild stuff like Tanaka vs. Benoit, RVD vs. Malenko...lots of fantasy type matches.

No, no. I never said I'd just ditch Smackdown. I'm saying give ECW some sort of timeslot at some point, maybe something like Heat's right now. Hell, I think nostalgia from hardcore fans and intrigue from new fans would help sell tix at the beginning...from there it'd be up to the shows to sell themselves.

I had a really dirty, depressing idea for Masters. I'm thinking Bischoff will pick Angle next week and that gives a logical "Lame challenge vs. lame challenge" scenario where Angle breaks the Master Lock and Masters can win the gold medals.

Brian, to address some of what you said: --Yes obviously ECW went under because they couldn't pay the talent. I don't know how many times Vince helped Paul E. out but I don't think ECW lost anything in the neighborhood of 60 MILLION like WCW did. Compare WCW being in the 5.0-6.0 range in the ratings at their peak with what they ended up doing at the end. --By ECW house shows I refer to the sort of thing they did before, not charging insane amounts like they are for this "one time only" PPV. If they charged amounts similar to what they once did I'd think selling 3000 or so tickets wouldn't be impossible. Hell, I'd go. --Why on earth would Vince show TV execs the ratings ECW got? It was stuff from 5-6 years ago, and couldn't it be possible that ECW could draw respectable ratings with a better timeslot on another network? The DVD sales are a more telling sign of ECW's potential with decent promotion. --I didn't say I thought ECW could mount a serious threat to the WWF if they got on USA in 2001, but with a more popular champion like RVD (what, did you want Justin Credible holding it till doomsday?) they could have at least TRIED to draw money.

Oddly enough it might be easier to get ECW some TV time now than it was for Vince to secure WCW a timeslot back in 2001. The problem then was that WCW was such a huge turd financially. They were hemmoraging money, the ratings were crap compared to the peak, and they also didn't really have anybody still under contract (a problem which killed the Invasion). ECW presents far less problems. It'd be a cheap looking show by definition, it's just the ECW style. I'm sure they could draw 3000 or so fans to shows (in fact I'd bet ECW house shows would outdraw a standard Raw or SMDN house show). Also, Vince could show TV execs the DVD numbers on how well the ECW DVD sold. As far as what WCW had to offer, yes I agree that the cruiser stuff was good near the end, but a promotion simply can't be defined by how good its cruisers are. People lay down money to see the heavyweight division, it's just a sad truth. Also, by early 2001 Booker's main event push was waning...he'd already been conclusively jobbed out to Scott Steiner and the idea was to build a big Steiner/Goldberg match. Thing is, Goldberg lost that goofy career match and thus that scenario was killed dead. What I meant about WCW not having anything to offer is that even if they did the big Steiner/GB match it still had no ability to draw flies. There was no match on the horizon for WCW, no interest from the fanbase. WCW had run its course as a promotion, they'd fucked over the fans too many times and killed off the interest of all but the diehards. ECW always felt like it was shut down at an inopportune moment. As in not quite getting the TV deal they needed, not quite getting to do the RVD/Rhino world title feud which would have led to RVD winning the title at long last. I'm telling you, an ECW on USA with a popular champ like RVD would have been a viable alternative. I remember that time very well. The last ECW PPV left a sort of To Be Continued vibe, as it faded out with an RVD/Rhino confrontation. ECW left you wanting more. WCW's last PPV I seem to remember being pretty good wrestling wise, but there was utterly no direction and most of the guys were trying hard to impress Vince and little else. When it was over I didn't feel saddened or anything....WCW had earned their fate.

Yeah Bob Sapp was the really huge black dude that you see in the trailer lifting the entire bleacher. The McDonald's thing was the only really blatant product placement in the film. As in repeated over and over. It didn't really bother me that much because 1. Terry Crews is cool and 2. It at least had something to do with his character, rather than in Happy Gilmore where Happy and the Caddy constantly plugged Subway.

I think people who claim ROTS is the best in the entire series are mostly caught up in the moment. I think my rankings went as such: --Empire --Jedi --Sith --Star Wars --Clones --Menace I still refuse to call the original A New Hope. That is just so lame. Seriously, would you tell your friends "Gee, I'm gonna go watch A New Hope?" Or would you say "I'm gonna go watch Star Wars."

Well using "promotion" or "federation" isn't exactly accurate since this ECW would be owned by Vince really. The reason ECW has nostalgic fans is that I think ECW still had something to say as a promotion. I mean did WCW REALLY have anything left to say or offer by 2001? There was no feud or payoff or much of anything that WCW had that could have meant much, whereas ECW pointed towards some things in the last PPV that I was really looking forward to seeing (RVD at long last getting the world title vs. Rhino, the New Impact Players, etc). The promotion flamed out quickly after being dicked by TNN, whereas WCW slowly petered out to the point where no one cared.

I have no idea as to why so many people wrote the Heat off after game 1. The Pistons haven't swept much of anyone in any sort of series the past 2 years. I maintain that really excellent players can still score on solid defense. Hell the Suns have scored on the Spurs too, it's just they can't stop anything at all.

Yeah I was about to say the total 4 days box office numbers aren't out yet but will be tomorrow. And that Scarlett search is a bitch....I hear Paulette Goddard is the front runner right now. Bette Davis is pissed at being looked over and is going to do a Scarlett ripoff at Warners.

Haha, well in theory I don't think Organa and his wife are actually meant to be Latinos but it's just that Jimmy Smits is playing the role. And yes I too thought of the Luke/Leia scene when Padme was giving birth to them, pondering how Leia had ANY sort of memory of her real mother.

Look, if Angle shows up at that ECW PPV it is implied that SOMEONE is going to kill his ass. Taz (with 1 z, the cool Taz) is very, very different than the amiable announcer. I think even new viewers have some sort of knowledge that Taz is harsh. The entire point to sending these Raw chumps to the ECW show is so they get their asses kicked. I'm not saying they can't get any sort of offense but by the end of the riotous fight they have to be left laying. Trust me, there are ways to do this. Angle can kill a bunch of ECW guys with the anklelock and suplexes, and then finally Taz has enough and maims his ass with a Katahijime. Angle keeps his heat for stomping 5 guys or so, Taz gets the insane pop for punking Angle.

I voted yes on this simply for wishful thinking. Frankly it is opening up Pandora's Box to just have an ECW PPV and then proceed to do nothing of note afterwards. What I envision is Heyman bringing in a faction of ECW guys to torment Bischoff on Raw and what could erupt is a full scale war for Raw supremacy. I don't really see how SMDN fits in here, since storywise the Long administration has nothing against ECW. Thus why would they try and take over the show? Whether they planned it or not this ECW PPV is going to change the entire direction of at least Raw. They have already gone too far with this thing to stop now without angering a large amount of fans. Make no mistake, Bischoff bringing his guys to get killed on the ECW show will have repercussions on Raw. Will Bischoff be pissed and try to punish the ECW participants there on Raw? This is the opening volley of a major feud I think. I'm not sure ECW will ever be its own show again per se, but it has to still exist in some nebulous form as a loosely affiliated group of wrestlers who answer to Paul E. Thus, Heyman could have his hands on both Raw and SMDN as a sort of agent for a shitload of wrestlers.

I saw it today and people might trash me for saying this but I actually thought it was better than the original. I shall count the ways: --Kevin Nash was utterly awesome in this movie. Taking this into account and also his memorable bit in The Punisher and Big Kev might well have a movie career. --Austin was the most vile character in the film as well, aside from the warden of course. In fact the cast here was leagues better than the original, every scene had SOMEONE of note in it (David Patrick Kelly, Terry Crews, Courtney Cox, all the wrestlers and NFL players, hell even Cloris Leachman). --Ending was more satisfying. In the original.... Crewe is still blackmailed by the warden briefly into throwing the game or be charged with accessory to the murder of Caretaker. Thing is he eventually wins the game anyway but we're left with the uneasy notion that the warden might well go through with his plan fuck Crewe over and keep him in prison for 20 years. In this film near the end the main guard dude (the guard QB) finds out what the warden did and stands up for Crewe, assurring him that he'd vouch that he had nothing to do with Caretaker's death. But my God, Nash mistakenly taking estrogen instead of the roids....that was GOLD.