cabbageboy

Well, a cynical ending can be a good thing (see T3, that was a real downer but was very effective). But in this case after waiting 3 movies there really needs to be a legit payoff. The problem is that Reloaded screwed the pooch so much that there is really no good way of paying it off. From any angle you look at it, people will be pissed: --If Neo and Co. succeed and destroy the Matrix, freeing everyone, then everyone will be pissed at having to live in a scorched earth hellhole. --If Neo and Co. fail then the entire series is kinda pointless and people will be pissed. What those alleged spoilers point to is a really odd and uneasy combination of those two, and it works perhaps even worse than either scenario. If I had to write a finale given the insane rules and backstory here's what I'd go with for an ending: --Neo and Smith finally have the big showdown, with Smith cloning at such a rate that it overloads the Matrix. Neo doesn't KNOW this exactly, I mean if he did he'd just say fuck it and let the Matrix be destroyed by Smith. It wouldn't just be guys fighting on a street like we see in the trailer. It would be an epic brawl going all over every place we've seen in the Matrix....entire buildings are destroyed, the earth shakes, etc. After whooping about 100 Smiths the real Smith just tells his clones to back off, he wants it mano a mano. Neo starts kicking his ass obviously, and after a while Smith turns chickenshit and starts bringing in more and more clones to the point where the Matrix starts breaking down. Everything starts just blowing up left and right, but Neo manages to make it to a predetermined phone and gets out...then BOOM! Matrix is destroyed. Problem is though, there would need to be another plot thread with Morpheus and Trinity leading forces into the mainframe where all the humans are kept in the pods. We have a big battle here as well, with our heroes winning out and taking control of it, shutting down the control the Matrix has over everyone. Thus everyone is able to live once the Matrix is destroyed. It should be noted that this can't actually DESTROY the Matrix but does create the gap for Neo and Smith to duke it out. Now, what to do? Well, everyone is free, Matrix is all destroyed. There needs to be one last killer scene with the newly freed people seem to be puzzled and not really all that into living in a post apocalyptic world. From here I see two acceptable endings: 1. Someone (Morpheus for example) gives the big speech telling everyone that things will be ok and while life might not be as good on the surface now as it was in the Matrix, at least they have a real freedom to make their own choices. From here the puzzled or upset looks turn to ones of slightly hopeful optimism, and they rebuild Zion for the last time. 2. This is more go for broke. The people are REALLY unhappy with being freed from the Matrix and now living in a scorched hellhole. Once they find out who "liberated" them an especially radical group starts a riot and during this EVERYONE (Neo, Morpheus, Trinity, etc) is wiped out. In other words it all ends in a state of chaos, a troubling mob rule. I think both of those scenarios actually make decent sense, though the casual viewer might not be too thrilled with the 2nd option. Might be considered too bleak. Either way it works better than that page of spoilers.

By the way that show wasn't in West VA. It was in Louisville. I know because I was there.

I don't exactly know dude. I even read that whole page of spoilers and it didn't really say anything about The One just being a program (or maybe it did between the lines, hell who knows?).

I would put that UT/RVD match higher. It was better than the HHH one.

Ok I reread those spoilers and I'm not entirely sure I understand the whole part about... Spoiler (Highlight to Read): The kid being the ONE. I'm assuming he is the one because he takes over as Architect at the end? Did the Wachowski Bros. not realize that NO ONE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT THAT KID!

Mr. J, let's say you are right about that last bit of spoiler info about...... Spoiler (Highlight to Read): The lame kid actually being the ONE. Does that make it suck any less?

As I have said since Reloaded came out, the Wachowskis booked themselves into a corner here. After Reloaded it dawned upon me that this thing can't really end to anyone's satisfaction. Here's some thoughts I had on those spoilers: Spoiler (Highlight to Read): This whole idea of the Oracle telling Neo to strike a deal with the machines to save Zion and take out mutual enemy Smith is complete bullshit. That said the idea of Smith taking over the Oracle and making her a clone sounds amusing. There are a goofy amount of deaths in this movie. How are we supposed to buy into Trinity and Neo BOTH dying in this movie considering they both already died in the previous movies and were brought back to life???? Also, Neo fighting the Smiths on a sidewalk sounds like a pretty uninspiring climactic fight considering what all is at stake. Another thing that sounds goofy (and also affirms my idea about the Matrix not being such a bad thing) is that apparently Neo and Morpheus decide that it's not such a bad thing after all, hence the desire to aid the machines in defeating Smith before he destroys everything. While I came to the conclusion that the Matrix isn't that bad of a thing a while ago, we've been force fed this bullshit about "The Matrix is evil, it isn't real" for 2 movies! Also, if that ending scene is correct I can already see the popcorn being thrown at the screen. The whole notion of the Oracle's prophecy of Morpheus "finding the One" actually meaning that he will simply find Niobe to be his girlfriend again is so mindblowingly retarded and offensive to the audience's intelligence. You mean to tell me after all this stuff in 3 movies of Morpheus being oh so serious about finding THE ONE to save humanity that all the prophecy was about was his love life???? Adding to the retardedness of it is that Niobe wasn't even a character in the first movie when this prophecy was first mentioned! So basically to sum it all up, the Matrix isn't destroyed really, Neo dies, Trinity dies, and we have a shaggy dog joke ending with the whole basis of the series being a reference to Morpheus scoring with a chick. Way to go Wachowski Bros.!

I'm going to see it mostly for R. Lee. We all know the Sarge is the man. I'm not really that against it being remade, I mean hell there were about 2 or 3 other bad sequels to it. The only one besides the original that anyone likes is TCM 2 with Dennis Hopper gunning for Leatherface.

I did actually read the spoilers since it won't really affect whether I go see it or not. All I can say is.....be afraid, be very afraid.

Oh brother. I just read that whole spoiler page outlining the whole movie. It's not really any of the 3 premises I mentioned above. In fact after reading it I think it's actually WORSE than a couple of those premises. It's certainly not as imaginative as the premise that began this thread. If this spoiler stuff is true, I shall be armed with my popcorn.

Well that is the problem now isn't it? It takes forever to really understand exactly what our heroes are trying to accomplish, and I'm not even sure THEY know half the time. Are they wanting to: 1. Free everyone from the Matrix? 2. Just keep their little shitty life in Zion from being destroyed and fuck everyone else in the Matrix? I ask you, if tomorrow you suddenly wake up and find yourself confronted by a stern looking bald black man who said your life had been unreal and a lie, and that he "freed" you from it to live in a post apocalyptic hellhole with no sun and a scorched earth......what would you do? I'd kill the bastard.

Let's say for instance that all of that stuff is actually accurate. How the FUCK is this going to be entertaining at all? Let's face it, having Neo be a rep of the Machine world and Smith being the rep of the Humans is such a total reversal from everything we've seen that the whole audience would revolt and throw shit at the screen (unless they are hopelessly confused). In all this analysis of the plotline, I think a couple of things have been overlooked: 1. The Matrix series has characters who suck and aren't interesting, and it's hard to understand their motivations. 2. The plotline is very intricate to be sure, but it's also boring as all fuck and makes no real sense. In this wild attempt to mindfuck the viewer, the Wachowskis have forgotten that in the 3rd film they need a slam bang finish with Neo kicking the shit out of everyone, freeing the people from the Matrix, etc. Guess what? It can't possibly happen! This is the corner they've written themselves into. There is literally no good that can come from this. Here's the story ideas that I have either heard or come up with: --Neo and Co. destroy the Matrix for good (how this can happen I'm not sure), everyone is freed. Let's see, we have a huge amount of characters who would be totally gone (all agents, Architect, Oracle, French dude, etc). Also since 99% of the people PREFER the Matrix anyway they might be just a little bit pissed at these self righteous pricks "freeing" them from something they had no desire to be free of to begin with! Hell, they're more liable to riot and kill Neo, Morpheus, and Trinity once they realize their nice phony life is gone and now they live in a scorched earth shithole. Result: Audience riots and throws popcorn at the screen. --Another theory is the one listed above in this thread. This would be such a total and complete mindfuck on the audience that everyone would either go home extremely confused, or perhaps outright pissed. Result: Audience throws popcorn and nearly riots. --I've also heard a really goofy rumor that Neo will just wake up at his keyboard and it will have been a dream. Result: Audience burns down the theater. Now, unless the Wachowski Bros. completely rewrite the bullshit rules that they themselves came up with....there is simply no way that Matrix Revolutions can end in a satisfactory way.

You are well within your right to be bored to tears. There were several entire reels that I was bored shitless in the theater. The whole opening half hour was just horrible, with an uninteresting look at Zion (why save this shitty place?), introducing characters that no one cares about, rambling incoherent speeches about nothing at all...it was all pretty glaring. Once the Keymaker gets into it the movie starts picking up a bit, up until the truly baffling Architect scene. I've never seen a scene that so thoroughly pulled the rug out from under the audience. It is truly a movie that is better to watch if you are a complete idiot. If you are intelligent you'll actually try and FOLLOW all that shit.

I think if I had to list the absolute main problem with WWE today it would be this bizarre tendency to try and make everything FUNNY. I've got news for them: in wrestling funny stuff doesn't draw money. Yeah there are some rare talents (Rock, Eddie) who can do serious and funny stuff, but for the most part the money is drawn from serious feuds. Funny is fine in a midcard comedy act like Too Cool. It is not so good in a feud with a main event guy (Angle) and a guy that is nearly there (Cena). This is why Angle will never draw serious money. He's booked as a joker. People pay money to see wrestlers they can take seriously.

Goldberg may have had 80% for him and 20% against him, but RVD has about 99% for him and 1% against him at the shows.

Here is what I'm confused about. Are all of these ticket sellouts just for the trilogy showing or is EVERY showing of the extended versions of FOTR and TTT sold out? I think anyone who would stay in a theater for 11 hours is insane, even if it is LOTR. I know that I wouldn't enjoy ROTK as much after having endured the marathon of the first two movies (in LONGER versions mind you). Add to it that the only theater showing it near me is the Stonybrook 10, a theater I've long hated. I don't even want to see ROTK there anyway, I'd much prefer seeing it at the Showcase Cinemas where I can see it on a HUGE ASSED screen. Thus, I might well check out both extended versions at Stonybrook in the 2 weeks they are out, and then check out ROTK at Showcase Cinemas in their huge auditorium. Incidentally what is with newer theaters being so lame? They are all crackerjack box size, and the screen isn't all that big. When I go to the theater I want an experience.

Well, Jericho and RVD came in under different circumstances. Jericho just didn't resign with WCW and came to the WWF amidst huge hoopla. He hasn't been in another promotion since 1999, so he's looked at now as a WWF/WWE guy. RVD is still an ECW guy to me, mainly because he was there from 1996 to 2001, while he's only been in WWE since 2001. I men god, even in his initial WWF stuff he was still an ECW guy....he and Dreamer were the only ECW guys who didn't "sell out" to the WWF, just went there when they had no options. I guess the difference is this: if Jericho went to the NWA he'd look like the Road Dog or all these other ex WWF guys. Basically like he is slumming. If RVD went there, it would be looked more like Raven...a guy who was fed up with WWE and wanted to go back to his roots. RVD is the exact guy the NWA needs. If they keep a few restrictions on him (as in no stalling and posing constantly) and throw out the WWE limits on his moveset, he'll be incredibly over. Oh, and let him cut promos he is more comfortable doing.

I think it's more about the money than it is about the title runs to Vince. Hell he was going to let Chyna have the world title for a while to get her to resign, but she wanted too much money. If I was RVD I'd be fucking insulted that the IC title was the bone they were throwing at him to get him to resign. I mean he's already held the title 3 TIMES, and that was before it was a joke belt. I've said it before and I'll say it again: RVD isn't really in it purely for money. I mean yeah he wants to make a decent living but he'd rather make less and be in a better environment. I think he'd be fine with signing for another 150,000 if he got it in writing that he'd get the world title and a solid push. If not, he'll tell Vince to fuck off.

My theory is this: Zion is actually in the Matrix and they don't even realize it. In other words there is another ACTUAL reality outside of everything. I don't see how Neo could bust out his moves in the alleged real world, nor do I see how the Architect could just send guys to destroy Zion at will if it was indeed outside the Matrix. See, I figure that the Architect lets them have a little rebellion and then squashes it for his own amusement, and lets "the One" rebuild Zion and make these rebels THINK they are accomplishing something....all the while it's just another area of the Matrix. That made no sense whatsoever, but then does the movie itself? I frankly see no good ending for Matrix Revolutions. What the hell can they possibly do? Let's see, Neo destroys the Matrix, whoops Smith for the final time, and frees everyone (99% of whom prefer living a bogus Matrix life than being in the apocalyptic "real" world). Yay! Now everyone can live in a scorched earth! This is a major problem with the Matrix series, it's very hard to get behind what our heroes are trying to accomplish.

I gotta go with Captain Planet as well. I always seemed to end up seeing it while waiting for WCW Main Event on Sundays. I really hated that cartoon.

I think everyone on here used to watch Captain Planet because it was on before WCW Main Event on Sundays. That's how I ended up watching it sometimes. And yes that show was horrible, abysmal. It was such PC bullshit. Heh, my dad used to call him "Captain Faggot." It combined all the bad things about the early 90s and distilled it into one huge pile of crap.

The problem with the Eddie/Show stuff is that they had a good US champ in waiting (Cena) but didn't put the belt on him. I don't think anyone would have minded Cena winning it after the parking lot match. For Eddie to be in contention to face Lesnar two things will have to happen in 1 MONTH: 1. Eddie will have to job the US title to the Big Show, and probably not cleanly. 2. Eddie and Chavo will have to lose the tag belts, but not have Chavo do the heel turn. All this seems a bit far fetched doesn't it? Also, if Eddie loses both of those belts in such a short amount of time it will look like he's on a losing streak, and why would he even deserve a world title shot at that point (in the storyline)? I guess they could always have Eddie go through a few of Vince's guys in a #1 contender tourney and get the job back from Show (no US title on the line). Is there really time to do all this stuff between now and Survivor Series though?

I'd think there has to be a lot of plot in this one. We need to get details on the Bride's past and why Bill saw fit to ambush the wedding. Besides, with the people left I can't see too much in the way of samurai or karate fighting. This might be more like the spaghetti westerns.

HHH actually might be pretty decent as Conan, but the thing is: Conan is a tough dude who doesn't talk all that much, can HHH live with that sort of role? Heh. Scott Keith had a good point about HHH's film career....he should be Thor.

Well, I dunno if I'd put the Roadrunner on there, but he does share some Tweety tendencies. Frankly I think they outta do a final blow off for each character: One where Sylvester eats Tweety and another where the Coyote finally eats the Roadrunner. Incidentally where are those two annoying gophers that are in a few Bugs Bunny cartoons? They were like the only ones who EVER got anything over on Bugs, and they were sooooo not worthy of it. Elmer, Sam, Daffy...all icons of animation. None got any heat on Bugs. Two fucking gophers did though.