cabbageboy

GAB 2000 and BATB 2000 are both certainly more exciting and interesting than the 1999 versions of the same shows. Good grief, BATB 99 is such a terrible show that I had a friend of mine literally walk out on the PPV during the junk yard match. I wonder, when did WCW first start going off the rails to everyone here? I have mentioned that DDP winning the belt in the bizarre, total lack of heat way he did was the death knell for me personally, but their initial decline was somewhat before then. I would say the initial decline in WCW's product is when they dropped a bunch of fun midcard feuds (Eddie/Chavo, Malenko/Jericho, Booker/Benoit), brought in the Warrior to blather for 20 mins. per show, and let Bischoff do the Tonight Show garbage. Aug./Sept. of 1998 in other words.

Yeah but that Bret/Owen match was basically done on a lame duck Nitro where they had nothing booked and just threw them out there to kill time for lack of anything else. It worked for 1 night, but it's not really a long term solution. WCW was so utterly horrible for most of 1999. I mean just the worst trash ever put on TV. 10x worse than anything Russo ever could think of doing, which is at least silly and moves quickly. I almost wish Nitro was up to mid 1999 on 24/7 so people here could see the full extent of how putrid those shows were. Enough to drive a man to drink level bad. Just 3 hours of ponderous, inane, boring, offensive SHIT. No redeeming value. At least that inital Russo "Powers That Be" era grabbed you by the balls. It wasn't good from a wrestling standpoint, but it certainly was different from the tedium WCW had been producing. Almost all of it goes into the guilty pleasure category, and in fact I almost preferred that late 1999 insane stuff to the WWF's late 99 output (which kinda ran out of steam once HHH started getting pushed, and before Foley put him over). I think Starrcade 99 and the aftermath of that show are what initially doomed Russo. It was a bad PPV with a goofy Montreal inspired main event, and then the chaos of Oct.-Nov. basically led to another lame rehash of the NWO. Then of course things spiralled completely out of control in late Dec. and early Jan. of 2000, with everyone getting hurt, having concussions, slicing their arms, etc. I actually maintain the dumbest move WCW made was Bill Busch removing Russo and naming Sullivan as booker. Was Russo wanting to put the belt on Tank Abbott a dumb idea? Of course. But why fire him over this? Was this stupid idea really worth demoting the guy and causing a mutiny? Bill Busch had zero idea of how to manage a crisis situation. All he had to do was tell Russo "Uh, no...Tank Abbott isn't an acceptable world champion. Put the title on someone else that fans see as a viable contender." Hell, they could have done the battle royale and have the last 2 guys be Sid and Benoit and let them do a main event match out of it. Would half the roster have demanded their release? Hell no.

TNA has a problem in that there really aren't any compelling matches out there for any of the champions right now. Joe, Kong, and LAX are all very worthy champions in my view, but who exactly are they going to face? They can keep the Dudleys feud going in the tag division, but that's more of the same and there isn't much else on the horizon there in terms of team legit enough to win the belts. Joe has several fairly decent guys he could face but most of this stuff seems like TV main events rather than a PPV dream match main event (Booker, Christian, Roode, Rhino, Tomko, the list goes on and on). Kong is so dominant in the women's division that there isn't anyone who can beat her, which is why I want them to put Cheerleader Melissa on TV and set that feud up.

Honestly, you wanna know why? By that point I had given up on viewing WCW as any sort of serious promotion that could be a viable money drawing fed. It was like after the massive trauma that was 1999 in WCW I threw up my hands, said the hell with it, and enjoyed watching Rome burn. Even Russo at his absolute insane worst is better than dreck like Fall Brawl 98, Great American Bash 99, Bash at the Beach 99, etc.

I don't get why some people seem to think JBL is, or has ever been, any semblance of a decent worker. In his entire career can anyone tell me a remotely decent **1/2 match he has had in a standard wrestling match? He had a miracle match with Cena in the I Quit, but that was a crazy hardcore brawl that can cover his limitations. The only other remotely decent JBL matches I can think of involved Eddie Guerrero doing the work of 2 men (the bloodbath match and the cowbell match). As far as this show goes, I will actually take JBL via some nefarious means since HHH will need a challenger soon. Obviously no way HHH is jobbing to Orton....hell they just got the belt OFF Orton, no way they are insane enough to put it back on him. Big Show over Mark Henry. Mickie James over Melina and Beth. Jericho over Michaels with a Batista run in, which has almost been announced as having to happen. Miz/Morrison over Kane/Punk. I know both guys jobbed to Miz/Morrison on ECW, but them winning the tag belts just makes no real sense. Maybe it could happen to pop the crowd and then lose em back, but that's about it. I think Edge/UT ends in some goofy non finish that sets up a final blowoff in a TLC match or something at ONS. They need some sort of big stipulation match for a finish to this feud, but they really need to blow this off since the Vicki crap has gotten way out of hand. Get her off TV, let Edge cut the vicious heel promo on her we all know has to happen (where he will bury her and rant on how he used her to get to the top), and put Long back in as GM. Right now SD desperately needs a new GM since all 3 shows are doing the SAME heel GM schtick. There needs to be one sane authority figure somewhere in WWE.

I have to say, between this bizarre and hilarious role and Iron Man this has got to be Downey, Jr.'s year. Could it be he's finally living up to his potential?

I gotta say, these early 1988 AWA shows are pretty dire stuff. It's no wonder they eventually teamed with Memphis and World Class since both promotions likely had better rosters at that point. Just way too much of a washed up Baron Von Raschke feuding with Soldad Ustinov and Khan on these shows.

Angle was awesome in ECW? His run was entirely forgettable, he traded wins back and forth with Orton (who was in the dog house at that point), jobbed in his only TV match with RVD, and got hurt about a month in and was released soon after.

The problem I've always had with Angle is that he never has totally gelled in any particular role. He can be a goofy comedy heel but that isn't really a main event act. Whenever he tries to be a babyface he comes off as a smarmy douche who harps on his gold medals. Maybe it's time to keep him sorta tweener and do the ass kicker gimmick. Here is the dilemma with Black Machismo. Lethal was doing nothing before that gimmick, being Machismo is what got him over. It's a fun gimmick and he's over, but why does everyone that is the slightest bit over have to be tossed into the main event? I wonder if he stopped doing the Macho act that he might lose his heat.

The sad aspect of SD in 2004 is that the roster itself wasn't really that bad, but it was almost entirely a roster of jobbed out and misused wrestlers. Oh, and isn't that Booker/UT match on this PPV the silly feud where Booker was doing the voodoo gimmick?

There was at least a solid tag match with Bad Company vs. Mando Guerrero and Ricky Rice. That would be the Guerrero that is the Hollywood stuntman/bit player, right?

I'm torn on whether to watch this show. The main event has the massive Eddie bladejob but it is still the beginning of the period with JBL on top of SD that truly sucked and cemented SD as a B grade show. RVD/Rey vs. the Dudleys could be a great match but Van Dam's 2004 SD stint was very unmemorable since his contract was up and they were largely jobbing him out, then once he did sign he got hurt. Shame too since his team with Rey had great promise, just not a lot of top level opponents.

The Human Torch match was from GAB 2000. If you want the Russo Holy Trinity of WCW Crap watch a triple feature of GAB 2000, BATB 2000, and particularly New Blood Rising. They are wildly entertaining if nothing else, which is more than I can say for WCW's PPV efforts for the latter half of 1998 and most of 1999 (Spring Stampede aside).

Not sure about your cable company but I recorded this show on a DVD today right as I found out it was on my system. I had it on VHS from the PPV years ago too, haha.

This will sound insane but I actually remember liking this show pretty well. WCW was coming off the catastrophic angle where they put the belt on David Arquette and shockingly enough the triple decker cage match on this show was really good (Arquette does little in it). Hogan/Kidman if I recall is a fun match with some hardcore wrestling from the Hulkster (!). I don't recall what happened with Flair/Shane but I don't recall it being too bad. Kanyon takes a crazed bump against Awesome as well on this PPV.

Lushus, for what it's worth I did like Syesha's version of Fever, though it's not exactly the right sort of song to do in order to make the finals. I still think the two Davids will split the vote a bit and one is going home, giving us a lame duck finals where we know Syesha would have zero shot.

Truthiness, Orton and Cena are destined to be the Bret and Shawn of this era, although they are of course vastly inferior to both of those guys. But by that I mean they are the guys WWE is trying to push in the aftermath of a successful time period. In the 90s those guys had to follow the highly successul Hogan/Savage era, much like how Orton and Cena have to follow the Austin/Rock era.

I still don't get the running joke that I'm somehow this mega Punk mark. Hell, all I've done is question the logic in him winning the MITB and then take loss after loss on TV when in theory they should be building him up for a title shot. And yes, cashing it in for the ECW belt is completely idiotic. Why would Punk cash in a MITB for a belt he's held multiple times and could get a title shot for whenever he wanted? Besides, long time posters here know that WWE jobbing out Rob Van Dam is the main thing that could make me throw a throne into the TV.

Well keep in mind that this PPV will be in the Memphis metro area, so why not bust out the old "I'll get revenge for having my head shaved by challenging you to a hair match" booking? Roxxi can use her voodoo in the match if need be, haha.

I don't know if Raw was actively bad tonight, but it was so nondescript and paint by numbers that my brother and I entertained ourselves by discussing WCW circa 1999. Think about that for a minute.

Ah but you forget the yearly booking cancer that is King of the Mountain next month. So no Steiner/Joe 1 on 1 rematch. There's some truth to the Kaz theory that he was in the match to keep things going but not overshadow the 2 bigger stars. No one really thought Kaz was going to win that match, if anything nearly everyone thought he was the obvious job boy. Not sure I get the Rogers/Flair comparison though. This was so long ago now that it's hard to know what that was like, but I think Flair beat Rogers in a match for the name. Back then that meant something and Flair called himself Nature Boy and people bought it. Thing is, Flair wasn't trying to BE Buddy Rogers...he was Ric Flair and simply used Nature Boy as a nickname. Jay Lethal? He is actually doing a flat out Randy Savage impersonation. Stuff that is over in a certain scenario (i.e. the X Division and doing silly angles with So Cal Val) won't fly once you get past a certain level on the card. That's why Christopher Daniels, while perhaps moreamusing and entertaining as Curry Man, is more viable in a main event role as himself than as Curry Man.

Truthiness, the irony of who TNA should push between Kaz and Lethal is that the very gimmick that made Lethal notable (Black Machismo) is too bush league to ever main event. I mean think about it...can you really main event PPVs with a guy doing an impersonation of Randy Savage? It's a sweet, sily gimmick that works on the undercard, much like Shark Boy, Curry Man, or Super Eric. By not having a silly gimmick Kaz is oddly enough more attractive to push if you are a wrestling booker.

My point is there was no reason to put a 3rd man in the main anyway. Once Angle was out I was glad to hear it since I felt like he had zero point being in it anyway. If they think Steiner is THAT crappy these days then don't put a MITB briefcase on him and let him challenge for belts. See, the thing with Kaz is that he isn't a bad worker or anything but him being pushed seems so random and arbitrary. He gets a lame duck shot at Angle and jobs, then he's off feuding with Black Reign (where he came off like a scumbag who was a rat thief). Even in the higher profile angle with him and Eric Young winning the belts, that was totally EY's show and Kaz was just this whatever guy that was there because Eric needed a partner. If you want to push a guy let's get a consistent reason for it, build the blocks to this point, do some video packages hyping this guy, etc. Oh and just go back to being Frankie Kazarian, since Kaz is a dumb gimmick (as noted by the confusion with Kaz Hayashi, as well as rhyming with Taz).

Thing is, Sky and Love have been sorta smarmy and heelish but not in a way where anyone gave a shit. So who would truly care about either having their head shaved? Oh, and can anyone explain to me what TNA's obsession is with Kaz? I don't think he's a bad worker or anything, but there's zilch about him that suggests "main event waiting to happen." He's just a dude to me, decent skills, looks like Antonio Banderas, not much charisma on the mic. It would be like if WCW back in the day got a wild hair up their ass and pushed the Z Man.

I actually watched both of the Schumacher movies today since this thread brought them to mind. The amazing thing to me is that they did in fact usually get the right actors for the villains and still screwed it up. Tommy Lee Jones as Two Face? Sounds good in theory. Carrey as The Riddler? Fine. Arnold as Mr. Freeze, Uma as Poison Ivy. All of this sounds like decent casting, yet the characters are written so horribly. The most unforgivable is Two Face since the way he is written, played, and directed is 100% wrong given what we know about the brooding character. It's like "Hey, the raving madman schtick worked with The Joker, so we'll do it with every villain from now on!" It's not hard to see why Silverstone and O'Donnell were wrecked by B & R the most. They sucked and not even in a so bad it's good kind of way. Batgirl was DOA as a character once she became Alfred's niece (instead of Gordon's daughter), and to boot they give her way, way too much to do in the film at the expense of Batman.