Boxer

Honestly, maybe the WWE should go down that route with a series called: "The Self-Destruction of.........." Think of the Candidates: Ultimate Warrior (done) Macho Man Scott Hall Jeff Jarrett (you know the WWE wants to bury him) Brock Lesnar (I'm sure they are still pissed at him) Chris Benoit

It's never too soon to start a 2009 wish list, with that said, what does everyone want? I think it's obvious we all want the Survivor Series set, since it's the last one left of the big four that needs a box set. Maybe another Bret set? Chris Jericho? Something based on WCW? For the record, I'd like to see the following: Something based on WCW Goldberg: I just want to watch all the WCW stuff all over again Sting: hopefully by 2009, he'll be outta TNA and we get the set Kevin Nash/Diesel: If he's back in the company by 2009, I can see him getting a set. From Vinnie Vegas to Diesel to Kevin Nash: The Life and Times of his Quad Rise and Fall of the Macho Man Randy Savage: Since he's buried, might as well make a DVD of this type on him Batista/Orton: Not because I'm the biggest fan, but I think these two dudes will probably get one, just because of what they've done so far. This one is more like a prediction, then what I would like to see. History of the WWE: Let's talk about everything WWE. From the days of the WWWF to the World Wrestling Federation to WWE, let's take a trip down memory lane. From Hulkamania to the Steroids scandal to WCW to Montreal to buying WCW/ECW to WWE to Chris Benoit, we need a complete look at the history of the company. I'm really surprised they have never done a set on the complete history of the company. As extras we get the Top 10 best matches in WWE history. The online voting for that box set would be great.

So what are moments you can remember where a wrestler refused to put over another wrestler? I can only go back as far as the 90's since that's when I started watching wrestling. Here's what I can remember reading through the boards over the years. Hart vs. Hogan Summerslam 1993. The way Wrestlemania 9 ended and the lead up to summerslam was suppose to have this passing of the torch match. Apparently Hogan refused because he believed Bret wasn't on his level. HBK vs. Dean Douglas. In Your House Oct 1995. Apparently heat between the clique and Douglas lead to this result. Leads to another clique member getting the title back the same night anyways. HBK vs. Vader. Summerslam 96 and Survivor Series 96. Michaels throws a hissy fit during Summerslam and doesn't want to job the title to Vader. Same thing at Survivor Series, eventually picks Sid to drop the title. Beside the WHC in 2002 to Triple H and Austin in 98, is this the ONLY other title HBK jobbed to someone? HBK vs. someone, Bret Hart perhaps? Early 1997. The knee injury makes him forfeit the title. Some say he refused to job the title, was suppose to be to Bret or someone else? HBK vs. Bulldog. One Night Only 1997. Apparently, Bulldog was suppose to retain, but HBK changed those plans because he didn't want to do the job. Really buries Bulldog, wife and his sister after the match. Hart vs. Michaels Survivor Series 97. Enough said about this one. Austin vs. Rock late 97. Didn't want to drop the IC title to Rock, felt he was below him. In this instance, he was probably right anyways. This was when Austin was starting to turn Red hot. HBK vs. Austin. While this job did happen, not without incident though. Still the story of Undertaker threatening to harm HBK if he didn't job merits this instance. Plus Shawn was running around telling people he wouldn't do the job. Giant vs. Kevin Nash. Didn't Nash fake a heart attack to get out of a job? Hogan vs. Jarrett. Bash at the Beach 2000. Apparently, he refused to job to Jarrett so that led to Russo buring him after the match. Triple H vs. Booker T. Was going to be the original plan at Wrestlemania 19, but instead changed his mind and decided to drop the title to Goldberg instead. Triple H vs. RVD. Not so sure about this one, but wasn't there talk of HHH droping the title to him in late 2002 but HHH didn't want to job? Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar. Unforgiven 2002. At first, I remember people were pissed when they heard this, seeing how Taker refused to job to a new star and make him. I believe it was true Taker didn't want to job, but it was because he wanted and rightfully did job to Lesnar in a Hell in a cell match on month later. Austin vs. Lesnar. Raw 2002. Austin felt it was stupid to job on free TV and walked out on the company shortly after. That's all I can remember for now, please feel free to add more to the list. Feel free to correct me if some of those ones I remember were wrong. Man, looking back, I just HBK's line about he doesn't lay down for nobody was true after all.

I would love to see HBK get involved in the Batista-Y2J match. Only to have both of them, especially Batista beat the shit out of HBK. I want a good old fashion beat down on the man, both HATE.

Hmmmmmmmm....................... Credit Slam Wrestling via Rajah.com: Unless I missed it in this thread. (Formerly in the CTDWAT) Well, all I got to say is who's the man? I cannot wait to see Sid vs. Cena. EDIT: Since it has become it's own thread, here's the link: http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/news.html Go to the August 7th update.

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't the sole purpose of NOT showing punk getting either stretcher out or loaded into an ambulance was because Adamle said their was a chance he could compete? So all we know is that maybe he was just in the locker room the whole time being looked after? Maybe it was done to show some suspense that maybe Punk would return later that night?

If anything, in regards to Batista-Orton, I hope they don't feud, but as both being heels have a natural respect for each other from their Evolution days, and Batista can be the unofficial member of Orton's group. Maybe a hired henchman or something. Eventually, if Orton and Batista somehow align, I hope the payoff is that they beat the SHIT out of Triple H. It's about time, someone gave him the beating of a life time, especially after how Triple H and evolution beat the crap out of Orton. Just once, I'd like to see HHH get his ass kicked by a stable or something.

If that's the case and we get a Team Michaels vs. Team Jericho Survivor Series match, I'm down for that. Team Michaels: HBK, Punk, Mysterio, Kingston vs. Team Jericho: Jericho, Cade, Batista, Orton? I think naturally, judging from the Batista-Michaels storyline, that somehow, some way, Jericho and Batista have to align, to take out the trash they call Michaels. Orton wll have his own 3G Stable by the time SS comes around, so aligning with Jericho isn't probable. I wouldn't try to think 2 months in advance with this storyline progression. Luckily, they have alot of viable alternatives but expect either the safe route or the worst possible outcome. Key word here is alternatives. This is so much fresher than when Cena ruled Raw. In fact, he actually makes it more interesting when he does return. Where will he fit in? At this rate, if Batista does turn like I and so many others want him to, we'll basically have the same amount of top faces and top heels. I guess Cena can do his own thing and just be a loner or something. I will say one thing though, if Cena is the one who ends Jericho's title run, I will not be impressed. Let Cena get his groove back for a bit, and then maybe around next year's Survivor Series or something, give him the strap.

If that's the case and we get a Team Michaels vs. Team Jericho Survivor Series match, I'm down for that. Team Michaels: HBK, Punk, Mysterio, Kingston vs. Team Jericho: Jericho, Cade, Batista, Orton? I think naturally, judging from the Batista-Michaels storyline, that somehow, some way, Jericho and Batista have to align, to take out the trash they call Michaels. Then we can get Diesel's return and have some tag matches between the four. Two dudes with attitudes vs. Batista/Jericho would be something. Drag that shit out until Mania and we get HBK vs. Jericho in a ladder match, ironman, or something sort of stipulation match for the World Title, Michaels wins and the blowoff is OFFICIAL once and for all. In the mean time, we get Jericho, while not feuding with Michaels for a brief cooling down period, can defend the strap against Diesel, Punk, Mysterio, or even Kane, if he's a face by then. Hmm......... I just hope the WWE has some sort of long term booking starting tonight, but I highly doubt it.

Latest on Sid from rajah.com via Observer:

I hope Jericho gloats how he never gave up like Austin to Bret after Wrestlemania 13. And on top of that, he should say he left a World Champion, while Shawn still left with nothing.

Here's an interesting topic. We have the Radicalz, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guererro, Dean Malenko, and Perry Saturn. So they were unhappy in WCW, tried desperately to get out of their contracts due to Kevin Sullivan taking off the booking duties. So they sucessfully get out, join the WWF and within a year WCW dies. Some say they were the backbone of WCW and once they left WCW was done for. In the WWF, all four have so sub-par to moderate success. Saturn was a lower card guy, who I believe won the European title. They tried a bit to get Malenko over, but he eventually retired. Guererro was injured at first, got some good success as Latino Heat, then around 2001 got fired, but rehired in 2002. Benoit started off pretty strong got some IC title runs, got hurt, then came back in 2002. In 2004, Saturn was gone from the WWE, Malenko became an agent, Benoit and Guererro explode with the benefit of the WWE backing and become World Champions at the same time with the peak being the hug after the Wrestlemania XX main event. But, in 2005 Eddie passes away. Later on the WWE puts in place a "Wellness Program" shortly after he passes away. Some say it was put in place as a direct result of Eddie's passing. In 2007, Benoit does the unthinkable and murders his wife, child and himself. He was linked to signature pharmacy and well, basically he single handed fucked up the WWE for a short time. The legacy of these four men has certainly changed over the years. With that said, here are a few things to discuss. Did them leaving really kill off WCW for good? What is their legacy, even after the events of 2005 and 2007? If they never joined the WWF in 2000, where would their careers be today? Do you still look at the radicals ever the same again? Especially when you watch their early stuff right after the jumped ship and still look out of place and very WCW like.

ECW title match was fun. I liked it and Matt showed strategy in that match. Tag match was what it was. Passable. Definately liked where they are going with the new stable. Michaels-Jericho was good. Jericho definately got handled in that match. SD title match was ok. I agree with everyone on the lack on intelligence on Jeff's part. I just like the fact Kendrick was a 3 time WWE champion in that match. Women's title match, meh. Raw title match was a little interesting. I think either Batista or Rey have to turn heel. At least to me, as faces, one needs a change. Punk, that one surprised me, not the way I envisioned the end to his title run. I guess unless he wins the Rumble and face Jericho at Mania then so much for Punk as world champion. I liked Jericho as champion. This means the Michaels-Jericho feud does not end. Jericho can talk more shit now since he's the world champion and the fact that Michaels did not put Jericho away for good. This program definately needed the world title in it and now rightfully belongs at the top of the Raw card.

Did Chris Jericho and Undertaker ever feud? I was trying to come up with fresh feuds in the WWE and besides this one and Edge vs. Jericho, everything else has pretty mucg happened.

Ok, first off, WTF? I stopped watching WCW around after the fingerpoke, but thanks to youtube, etc...... I've been watching all the stuff I missed. This time is EXTREMELY confusing to me. Let's start off with some stars. Sting: Why is he a heel? He was never over as a heel and I then I see he turns face a few weeks later. Why, WHY, did they make him heel? Luger: Unless I'm wrong, was his heel run a straight period of all of 1999 and not just a heel than face, than heel turn? Hogan: Was there really a need for Hogan to turn face? Why exactly did he turn again? I thought the nWo reformed after the fingerpoke kept him heel? Bret Hart: Didn't he like turn face and heel a few times during this year? They could've ran with him in 1999, especially after all the Hogan stuff, but did he spend most of 1999 teaming with Hogan? How did these guys go from SO hated to So loved? Sid: What was he? I have a hard time following if he was heel or face? DDP: So he turned heel by cheating after winning the WCW title. Why? It went against EVERYTHINg he believed in, being the people's champion. Someone? Flair: was it 1999 or 2000 when he went to the mental institution? Was this the year he turned heel and face multiple times? Goldberg: Where was he? Injured? Was there another streak he was working on? Those are just a few guys I'm wondering about. In 1998 basically the heels were faces and the faces were heel. Why did WCW go so ass-backwards in 1999? What was Hall and Nash doing for most of 1999 until nWo elite reformed? Benoit, Malenko, Jericho, Eddie, etc............ what were they doing? I know Jericho jumped mid-way in 99, but was it really hard to push the others? The revolution, what was up with that? Man, this confusion is just making it hard to watch all this stuff, I can see why WCW went to hell. I leave with one thought, did Nash book all this shit? If anyone can answer any of these questions, it is MUCH appreciated.

That's my problem with it. I assume you don't do a photoset like that without knowing it'll come back and haunt you one day. The whole babes in the woods act is annoying.You may as well be honest about it. I doubt WWE care that much anyway. Considering all the stuff Candice did and nobody seems to mind. Lena's past is also somewhat dubious. What did Lena do?

RVD to me was the guy that solidified that belt when he won it. It had a small chance of revival if all the former ECW guys would feud for it during the invasion but we all know what happened there. The 2000 run for the title was, meh. I liked it when there were longer title runs, like RVD's.

Thank you, thank you very much. At least now with a working understanding, this stuff can be easier to digest.

Here's a simple topic for you. What are stories you heard or know of, that relate to McMahon truly liking that superstar? Here's a few I've either read or heard about and some assumptions. Shawn Michaels: They've had a long term relationship, and McMahon had enough thick skin to put up with him through the 90s. Triple H: Duh. Undertaker: Probably because he stayed loyal all those years. Bret Hart: They had a father/son like relationship before Montreal. Chris Benoit: I heard he was really high on him that he signed all four radicals just to get at Benoit. He wanted to push him from the start. Yokozuna: I'm pretty sure he really like Yoko, I mean he didn't even fire him until 1998, almost two years after he had gotten too big and was sent to get in better shape. Ric Flair: Look no further than that big send off in April plus during the 80s he coveted Flair as a performer. He was booked extremely strong in his first run in 92-93 I'd like to mention Austin, Rock, even Foley, but honestly I don't remember McMahon personally liking them. They made him money, but a personal relationship, I don't ever recall. We all know the heat Austin and McMahon has back in 2002 and currently does with Foley today.

Too bad, this is going to be a big hit. NOW, let them do what they did this year with Cena in 2010. He enters the Rumble, wins the damn thing, and properly gets the main event at Wrestlemania 26.

So the year is 1996, say Razor and Diesel re-upped their contracts instead of going "down South" what happens to both companies? WWF: So Diesel and Razor stay, their characters were still over, although eventually they could've gone down the stale road. Would all they would do is continue to fight with their clique buddies and here and there with Bret? Where would this leave guys like Ahmed Johnson, Vader, even Stone Cold? Would Stone Cold have lost to politics again in the WWF like he did to Hogan in WCW? And then there's Rocky and Mankind, do they not even become big stars because of the Clique? Would this also mean Triple H never breaks out because, well, when Hall and Nash were around, Hunter was nothing. Let's be honest, McMahon was forced to push new stars because he lost two of his biggest stars when Hall and Nash defected. If Hall and Nash never defected, I'd say WWF 1996 is indeed a pretty good roster with the likes of Bret and Owen, Bulldog, Hall, Nash, Ahmed, Vader, Marc Mero, Stone Cold, Rocky, Mankind, Sid, Ultimate Warrior, Goldust, Triple H. If all those guys alternated battling each other, I think we would have some pretty decent cards. WCW: Hogan continues to dominate as a face, holds the WCW title forever. Maybe a long run program with Sting or Luger? WCW was sort of stale at this point. Without the nWo would guys like Malenko, Gurrerro and Benoit be bigger stars faster? It's just amazing that these two guys, Hall and Nash had a big effect on both companies whetever you agree with it or not. These two guys open doors for some while closing too many doors for others. So what does everyone else think? Both companies would've continued to have Monday Night Wars in the 2.0's and 3.0's in the ratings and be stale or was it natural for the companies to heat up, even if the nWo never existed?

More: Booker T and Goldust, Tag Titles. These guys were over. All those promos from the nWo until the end. People ate it up. I still don't know why they waited all the way until Armaggedon to do the title change. By then it meant nothing. Kurt Angle, Summerslam 2001. Man, that was one hot match with a stupid ending. Doing it one month later is similar to what happened to Goldberg, they became deflated. Tazz, early 2000. When Angle won both the IC and Euro titles, I think it was natural for Tazz to step in and at least take one of the titles since he did defeat Angle in his debut. He would've made on fine IC champion. Sid, late 91 early 92. After watching the youtube thread with the Sid vs. El Diablo match, shit, he was OVER. Add that on top of the Royal Rumble elimination of Hogan and we have a good candidate for a title. Heck, just seeing Sid vs. Taker circa 91 was something.

So, who had great debuts in any company and then just fell FLAT afterwards. Basically their debuts were the best part in the company. This thread begins with Steiner pretty much, because after his debut, his ringwork wasn't pretty. Also, Goldberg can be up there, but again, he was pretty consistent in terms of being made to look bad. Who else had a spectacular debut with a huge intial crowd pop and then as the weeks went by, the slowly faded either because they sucked, were booked bad, or looked like an idiot. That looking like an idiot part has to be doubt taken by Booker T. when he debuted in WWE.

From Bret Hart to Shawn Michaels to Stone Cold to The Rock, etc.............. Pretty much every guy that turned heel blamed the fans with the old line I tried to please them, they turned on me, etc........... Has their been anyone that turn heel and it wasn't our fault?