Kahran Ramsus

Player B. A is out of the question. That leaves B & C. C had more TDs, but also turned the ball over more and threw for 700 fewer yards. B is the most productive. I don't have any stats on hand, so I'm curious as to who these players actually are. Or did you just make them up?

I am quite pleased at this. This all but assures that Favre will pass Marino on the all-time TD passes list, which is something I've been hoping he'd be able to get. Green Bay will be better off with him as well. They have made a lot of improvements, but they are not the Chargers where they can stick in a first year QB and get success right away.

Taker's probably a better wrestler now than he was in his prime. He certainly is much, much better than he was in 1991 or 1992 where he didn't do much beyond choke his opponents.

That would be Secret of Monkey Island.

The point of the Rumble is to get over the storyline that will create the best possible buy rate for WM. Given the big Streak vs. Title storyline has a lot of potential for it, and that the build for Batista vs. Undertaker has been great, slow burning stuff, last night's Rumble did it's job. Undertaker had to win. When you are doing a streak storyline like they are doing, it would kill the feud out of the gate to job him right away. Both Batista & Undertaker need to be kept strong going into Mania as that is the appeal of the match. Orton/Edge/HBK didn't need to win, even though at least one of them will be challenging for the other world title. HBK is much more of an underdog character so he can lose here and not hurt anything. Orton & Edge are both cowardly heel types that tend to get things through the back door. Taker was 100% the right choice to win here as the RAW match would gain nothing from having the challenger win, but the Smackdown match would be hurt significantly if Taker didn't.

Streak vs. Title = Huge to WWE and most people would agree, especially because of the drama with Taker being the first one to win the Rumble at 30 and it seeming like destiny. Batista/Taker is what I'm interested in at Wrestlemania. I was hoping for it last year before Batista got hurt. It is the biggest match they have. The other notable thing is that Kennedy is going to be a star. After tonight, I'd be very suprised if Kennedy goes the year without winning the title.

Well, his character is essentially Terrell Owens.

WWF Randy Savage & Ted Dibiase - They were fighting in the match that got me hooked on wrestling on SNME and became favourites of mine because of that. Mr. Perfect - He was my favourite wrestler until he left the WWF in the fall of 1993. Demolition - They were so completely dominate and different (I saw them before the Road Warriors) that it was hard not to cheer for them. Jake Roberts - I really like him as a face, and he was even better when he turned heel in 1991. Brutus Beefcake - Yeah, I know. He was a fun midcard act and he just got you excited about the product. Plus at his peak, he was a lot better wrestler than people give him credit for. Greg Valentine - Something about him. He was just a talented guy who went out and did his job and didn't really yammer on about himself like most of the wrestlers at the time. He was a wrestler as much as a character. Rick Martel - I hated Santana, so naturally I was a fan of his main rival. The Fabulous Rougeaus - My other favourite tag team. They were always good wrestlers, but they were hilarious after the heel turn. IRS - The gimmick was silly, but Rotundo made it work and at his peak in Money Inc he was about on equal terms with Dibiase. Better than Captain Mike at least. NWA/WCW Ricky Steamboat - As much as I appreciate Ric Flair now, at the time, much like with Hulk Hogan he never appealed to me as much as some of his opponents. Steamboat being one of them. I find it hard for anybody not to like Steamboat in this period. Barry Windham - Always liked him, even in the Horsemen. Tully Blanchard - Likewise. These days I'm a bigger fan of Arn Anderson, but at the time Blanchard was the more exciting and showy performer. Sting - I always preferred Sting to Hogan. He was just so much more athletic than Hogan that his matches were more exciting week in and week out. Sid Vicious - The best monster heel of the day. He destroyed people. Brian Pillman - I was quite the fan of his in the early days, although I'd somewhat sour on him later (post-Blondes). Hated his partner Zenk though. My most hated wrestlers of the time included Tito Santana, Rick Rude, Jim Duggan, Jimmy Snuka, Red Rooster, Tom Zenk, Bobby Eaton, Dusty Rhodes, Scott Hall & Lex Luger. Some of those I've grown to appreciate in retrospect, while others I still can't stand (Luger).

That's a large part of the problem. People confuse Meltzer being wrong with plans changing after the fact.

He did, but there was a massive backlash and Orton got himself into trouble again so they had no other choice. Remember the match at No Way Out? Some would argue that given the quality of his title run (ie. jobbing every week) that he ended up getting screwed anyways.

Sid Vicious, but only after the scissors incident. After that I thought he was a psychopath who might break the act at any time and attack another wrestler or fan for real. I had thought he had been pretty much blackballed from the industry until he showed in the WWF in 1995. Even when I first started watching at seven years old back in 1988, I knew wrestling was fake, but that incident went beyond the act. I used to like Sid prior to seeing that on the 6 o'clock news.

I know the difference. Both ideas have been discussed in this thread. Since passing the torch doesn't happen very often. I was trying to figure if Undertaker really put over Mick Foley, or was Foley established enough that it wasn't the case. Let's put it this way. Less than a year later at Wrestlemania XIII, who was in a midcard tag match and who was winning the world title?

I agree with those saying MMA should not be compared to worked wrestling. One's scripted, one is legitimate competition. That would be like comparing Muhammad Ali with Rocky Balboa.

The closest Austin came to passing the torch was at Wrestlemania XIX when he finally lost convincingly to Rock and then retired. But I'm not sure that counts since Rock was gone a month later anyways. True passing of the torch moments are really rare. One of the few that I can think of is Ric Flair losing to Bret Hart in Saskatoon. Flair was the top heel for most of the previous year, and Bret Hart was getting his first shot at the main events after several years in the midcard. Flair was gone from the WWF within 5 months and Hart quickly became the company's biggest star of the period. If you go way back Rogers/Sammartino is probably about as close as you can get to somebody passing the torch.

Hogan fucked him over in 1989, you can hardly blame Savage for that one too.

I agree. This game happens in September and the Colts get mauled. The Bears D is still good, but not what it was with everybody healthy. Fortunately for Chicago they still have a tremendous advantage with special teams. Grossman s not a bad QB by any means. That's why his horrid games are such an enigma. They are not just poor, but abominable. This is going to be a tough game to pick to win as there are so many question marks on both teams. I will say this though, no matter who I eventually pick to win, there is no chance in hell that I'm going to be cheering for the Bears to get their 10th championship.

That's all you need to know.

I just watched 1992 again last night. Flair got the crap kicked out of him all night long by everyone from Roddy Piper & Hulk Hogan to Undertaker & Jake Roberts. The problem that completely kills 1995 is that it is less than 40 minutes long. Shawn's performance in 1995 didn't even last as long as Dibiase's way back in 1990 and there is somebody almost every year that does better than it. I blame the booking and not Shawn for that, but it is what it is and it really hurts the match. Plus Shawn fought very few credible opponents that year. There was Bulldog, Luger and umm...King Kong Bundy and Crush were about the biggest names of the rest (not counting Owen & Backlund being taken out by Bret Hart before they got into the ring). Flair had to beat some of the biggest names of the 80s/90s and he won the title for winning it. HBK just won a shot at the title. 1992 was much more eventful than 1995.

I keep voting for Foley. He sucks so bad at these things he got eliminated three times in the same match.

I'd rather see it in Green Bay/Chicago/Buffalo. Play it outdoors in the cold the way football is meant to be played.

Hulk Hogan "Macho Man" Randy Savage Bret "The Hitman" Hart Bruno Sammartino Andre the Giant "Rowdy" Roddy Piper Bobby "The Brain" Heenan Gorilla Monsoon Bob Backlund Nominations Ted Dibiase Jesse Ventura Greg Valentine Shawn Michaels Gene Okerlund

They appear to be about equal on paper, but the difference is that Savage, Piper & Roberts were much bigger players in 1992 and Flair, Undertaker & Sid were bigger names than Andre, Dusty & Rude were in 1990. In 1992, you had... Randy Savage & Jake Roberts - In the middle of the hottest feud in the company, and the biggest for both men in years. Savage was 2 months away from winning the WWF Championship. Hulk Hogan - Legend who was recently stripped of the championship. Undertaker - Just lost the championship to Hogan in a controversial finish. Ric Flair - NWA legend and the self-proclaimed Real World's Champion. Roddy Piper - Flair's nemesis and new Intercontinental Champion. Sid Justice - Being pushed as the replacement for Ultimate Warrior. Sgt. Slaughter - Main evented the previous Wrestlemania. Shawn Michaels - New, hot heel after sending his partner through a window. Ted Dibiase - Former main eventer who had recently dispatched his former servant in a long running feud. British Bulldog - About to begin a new push that will eventually result in him winning the IC Championship in the main event at Summerslam. Rick Martel - The current record holder for longest time in a Rumble match, a fact repeated several times throughout the show so that we would forget he's a JTTS by then. Plus, the winner of the match became the new WWF Champion. At the time it was very much in the air who was going to win this (I personally thought Sid was going to), whereas in 1990 it was pretty much between Hogan, Warrior & Hennig. The final four in 1992 (Hogan, Savage, Flair & Sid) could all have easily won the match as could Undertaker. The final four of Hogan, Rude, Hennig & Hercules in 1990 was much weaker.

1988 - I've never actually seen this one. 1989 - This is really good for most of it and certainly contained the biggest names of the day (although I do wish Rude & Warrior were in it). The fact that the two biggest stars (Savage/Hogan) are gone at the end is in some ways unique, but also kills the crowd. Had Warrior been used in the John Studd role, it probably would have gone over a lot better. 1990 - One of the best Rumbles. We get the Rumble's first truly memorable performance by Ted Dibiase, and who didn't mark out for the Warrior/Hogan dustup. The Savage/Piper/Roberts/Dibiase mini-match at the beginning was great too, as was Hennig/Rude teaming again at the end only for Hennig to accidently (or did he?) eliminate Rude. Big names throughout the match here. 1991 - This Rumble is pretty much forgotten. Much like 1996, it was the same guy winning who did so in a much more memorable match the year before. This is actually better than 1996 with future stars like Bret Hart & Undertaker putting in a good performance, and it probably was the biggest highlight of Rick Martel's WWF career. 1992 - Nothing needs to be said here. Easily the greatest Rumble of all-time with the Rumble's most memorable performance from Ric Flair, with many of the biggest names from the late 80s/early 90s. Flair, Dibiase, Slaughter, Taker, Savage, Hogan, Sid, Piper and more are all here. 1993 - It was a weak roster by this point, with much of the above stars onto other things, but the booking here was quite strange with fan-favourites Mr. Perfect & Undertaker going out early along with classic heels Dibiase & Flair. Thus for a long period we were stuck with Backlund & IRS as the biggest stars in the match. If they wanted Yokozuna to win, either Perfect should have lasted a lot longer or Savage should have come out a lot earlier to keep things interesting. 1994 - The time between entrants got toned down this year, which annoyed me at the time, but this holds up better than most with great performances from Diesel & Shawn Michaels and the memorable ending. I liked how the booking made it seem like either Luger or Hart could win it too. 1995 - Shawn Michaels was great here, but the roster was really weak (made worse by the quick exits by Owen Hart & Bob Backlund) and the intervals killed it. Things happen too fast and their isn't enough time given between entrants for eliminations to take place properly resulting in the ring being filled with 20 guys by the end. 1996 - Back to longer intervals, but there was lack of anything interesting happening here. Shawn was an absolute lock to win, and the only fresh thing here was Vader. HHH gets to stay in for 50 minutes over two years before he was any good. Skip it. 1997 - The weak roster hurts most of the mid-90s Rumbles and this is no exception, but the last third of the match is very good regardless. It takes too long to get going though. 1998 - A repeat of 1996 with Austin being an absolute lock, only this time he has more talent to work with than HBK did. Still a weak Rumble. 1999 - An abomination. Massive amounts of interference and dead space with one guy stuck in the ring waiting for the next entrant. The winner was a non-wrestler who had #2 and was in the ring for about 4 minutes tops. The runner-up also missed 30+minutes of time he was supposed to be in. All of the major PPVs were a disaster in 1999 and this could be the worse of the lot. 2000 - The best Rumble since 1994 (and arguably 1992), it suffers from a bit of star power as this was just before the Radicalz came back and Undertaker & Austin were both out with injuries. But Rikishi had a memorable performance, and it was generally a fun Rumble all around. 2001 - Notable for Kane's dominating performance which is the highlight of his career to this point. Like 2000 this was just a lot of fun, but with a better roster. 2002 - Not as good as the two previous years, this was all about HHH. Mr. Perfect doing so well was a surprise, but was unfortunately Hennig's last hurrah. The two major problems holding this one back is the very slow opening (until Undertaker comes out) and Austin/HHH treating pretty much everyone after they came out like a jobber, save Hennig & Angle. 2003 - Started off very well, but really gets slowed down by the end as the guys with talent were tossed out in favour of the big guys like Kane, Taker, Test, 3MW and Batista (before he meant anything). They didn't do a good job of spreading out the talent here with Lesnar being forced to carry pretty much everybody in the ring by the end. 2004 - Second to 1992 as the best Rumble ever. Foley returns and Benoit begins his march to the title. Even Big Show is booked properly for once. Everything you want in a Rumble. 2005 - This is one of my favourite Rumbles up until the botched ending that left a bad taste in my mouth. A lot of talent in this one with the two best wrestlers in the company starting things off. Eddy stealing #30 only to get caught is the best pre-match happenings since Dibiase bought the last entry way back in 1989. The Smackdown & RAW wrestlers going at it only to team up and destroy Hassan was fantastic. Basically everything was going real good until the ending. 2006 - Not nearly as good as the year before. I agree with others that say that #1 & #2 going the distance has really been done too often by this point. The reason it was so special when Flair & HBK did it was because it didn't happen often, but this was just two years after Chris Benoit's classic performance in 2004. It was also hurt by Misterio's poor showing. In 2005 Misterio was the highlight of the Rumble, going 50 minutes pretty much non-stop the entire way before being eliminated by Edge. In this one he gets the crap kicked out of him and then sits around resting pretty much until there are only three guys left. Really disappointing. So my rankings... 1. 1992 2. 2004 3. 1990 4. 2001 5. 2000 6. 1989 7. 2005 8. 1994 9. 2003 10. 2002 11. 1991 12. 1998 13. 2006 14. 1997 15. 1995 16. 1993 17. 1996 18. 1999

Another coach that should probably be mentioned is Weeb Ewbank who is (to my knowledge) the only coach in NFL history to WIN a world title with two different franchises (two with the Colts, one with the Jets).

KOTOR had a better script than four of the Star Wars movies. I have to go with the Monkey Island series though as the best example of writing in a video game, especially the first two. That ending to the second game is classic.