Kahran Ramsus

Multiple villains can work depending on how they are used. For example, there is nothing wrong with henchmen (think James Bond). But there should only be one clear cut main villain.

The Rock N Roll Express defined tag team wrestling to the point that WWE still copies their formula today. I wouldn't put them at the level of the Steiners, but they are above the Rockers easily.

Luke & Leia are 20 in ANH if that helps.

I can't remember a time when so many teams picked the wrong detour option.

I think the whole board can agree with that. I don't know. The match would be bad, but short, and Orton being freed up would allow us to ditch the dead weight in the ladder match, ie. Christian. Who seriously believes that Christian has a chance in hell in that match? All the others you could see winning (some more than others), and with Orton in there you really would have no clue who would win. He would benefit a lot better from a win there too, than he would against Taker.

Yes. And it would benefit him a lot more than going over Taker first. Make it close the first time, and then he can go over in the rematch after the fans are more accepting of him. Batista was getting cheered long before the HHH feud. He was starting to get really over when he was feuding with Jericho & Edge in the summer. Just watch the Summerslam match. I know at Vengeance, I couldn't wait for Batista to kick Jericho's teeth in. Batista isn't a great wrestler, and I don't think he's even as good as Orton, but he's top 5 in the company when it comes to charisma, which is certainly a lot better than Orton. I would actually rank him at #4 after JBL, Cena & Angle, which would make him the most charismatic wrestler on RAW. That's why the fans are taking to him, rather than Orton.

Wrestling-wise, he isn't that bad. I quite liked many of his matches last summer, including his IC Title loss to Edge that everyone seems to hate. His problem is that even though he isn't bad, and maybe even a bit above average in the ring, it isn't enough to cover up his deficiencies in character, charisma and mic skills. Not only he is boring, but nothing he does comes off as natural. Most of his character is copied off of other more successful wrestlers, most notably the Rock. He keeps trying to be the next Rock or the next Stone Cold, and not Randy Orton. It comes off as if he's trying too hard and constantly tries to resort to cheap heat/pops. I would hate him if he were a midcarder because his character is so bad (like Test), but it would be more tolerable if I only had to put up with him for 5 minutes rather than 20. Not only does it appear that he's trying too hard, but he is constantly being overpushed too. Combine the two, and you end up with someone that the fans don't respect nor find terribly entertaining, and thus shit all over it. The end result is you end up getting booed at the Royal Rumble against the biggest heel in the company. When you are on a message board like this one, and are getting matches against HHH & Undertaker, and the posters start cheering for Taker & HHH (possibly the two most hated men in the IWC), your push isn't working. And if they put him over Taker at Mania, the problem will be 10x worse. Orton needs to completely revamp his character if he is to have any hope of being the next big star, and I don't see it happening, because not enough people acknowledge that there is a problem in the first place.

It is the worst thing that would happen. You can't just put Steven Richards over HHH because the fans wouldn't buy it. He has to earn credibility first, at least enough so that the fans would buy him going over Taker. Trust me, the fans will shit all over it if Orton wins. He has to job clean. Anything else is the wrong decision. He was more than taken seriously during his run as a heel. The fans didn't shit all over it when he went over Foley, they won't shit on him going over the Undertaker when he does. Foley is retired. Taker is not.

Maybe. That would probably be the second most likely choice. Unless they couldn't get Dafoe back, and he's playing Norman.

Absolutely. And yet evironmentalists turn the other cheek when it comes to China. They don't even have to abide by Kyoto, and there are the most wasteful country in the world. Seal clubbing is a little different for two reasons. One, it is a tradition of the Inuit for thousands of years and would cause a huge mess in native relations if the government got involved. They depend upon the seals for food. Two, the harbour seal isn't even endangered. Evironmentalists target them because they are cute, not because they are at risk. Meanwhile they do nothing for the many shrew and bat species that are on the verge of being wiped out.

Hmmm...interesting choice. He's not Brock, or at least he doesn't fit the part (he's way too old). My guess is Sandman.

Orton will me over after WM Batitsa wont be. Think ahead, not in the present. Do they have any legends waiting in the wings to give him another heat injection come next WM? Hulk Hogan?

Orton will me over after WM Batitsa wont be. Think ahead, not in the present. I am. And it isn't looking good for Orton there either.

Well, I still think the streak should stay intact. But there is a lot more upside there. And Edge is a much better wrestler than Orton, so the Batista argument doesn't hold up either. My main disagreement is Edge doesn't need that kind of push. A few wins over HBK and he's ready to headline. Might as well ask him to part the Red Sea while he's at it.

Well, I still think the streak should stay intact. But there is a lot more upside there. And Edge is a much better wrestler than Orton, so the Batista argument doesn't hold up either.

Just a quick question. If we had the exact same situation except that it was Edge vs. Taker instead of Orton, how many of the Taker supporters here would be more accepting of him jobbing? I know I'd be one. Edge could benefit from the win a lot more than Orton could.

And Orton is older than Dupree. Let's give Rene the World Championship!!! That wasn't directed at you BTW.

Orton wasn't over even with HHH. In fact, the biggest heel in the company was being cheered over him. The only time Orton ever got heat was when he was sucking Hunter's dick in Evolution. He's useless by himself. And I must have missed all those ***** matches Orton had while on top for the past six months.

Batista is over. Orton isn't.

Didn't Foley put Orton over? Yes. And that was fine. Foley is retired. He should put Orton over. Unfortunately, Orton screwed it up in the fall. If Rock came back, Orton should beat him. If Austin came back, Orton should beat him. If HBK was wrestling him, then we'd probably be in a similar situation that we are now. Taker has one big job in him, and you are going to waste it on a nobody like Orton. Save it for someone special. I don't like RVD. But if he went over Taker, it would be far more likely to be accepted than if Orton does.

It depends on the situation. Would you job Hulk Hogan clean in 1987 to Honky Tonk Man? Obviously not. Would you job Mick Foley to put over HHH as the next big star in 2000? Absolutely. Orton is not the right guy. He isn't leaving any time soon unless he suffers a career ending injury. You don't here nearly as much retirement talk surrounding Taker as you do guys like Angle & Booker.

If it were Batista going over Taker, they wouldn't have nearly the problems that they will have with Orton going over. Okay, how about another one. Remember the last big streak in wrestling? How well did WCW benefit from Nash ending it?

Yes, because winning a high profile match ruins your career. HUH? Going over Kane a billion times sure helped X-Pac's career didn't it?

No, he wouldn't because the fans wouldn't take him seriously and they would still think he was being overpushed. He'd be another X-Pac. X-Pac got lots of heat too, but people tuned out during his segments because they wanted him to go away as opposed to wanted him to lose. He was already ruined as a face. If you put him over Taker you ruin him as a heel too.

If Orton wins at Mania I never watch the WWF again. I can't stand the Undertaker but his streak still means something and it would be the ultimate slap in the face for it to be broken by someone like Orton. No, Undertaker needs to put some guys over for the good of the business. Yes...but not Randy Orton. Taker has one big job in him, and why waste it on a never-will-be like Orton?