The Truthiness

I think it would be great if given time. But it is not going to be given time. I think the match getting any time would make it worse. JBL is awful and looks out of shape. I see this being more like the Wrestlemania 21 match rather than the Judgment Day match. I don't know if that's really true. Punk seems to have heat on him a lot due to his personality and sXe lifestyle I don't think his SXE lifestyle is hurting him, actually I think that's the only reason they deal with him. I think him being a smart ass with the agents, might be hurting him.

What did you expect? I think JBL/Cena is going be a awesome 9-11 minute brawl with Cena getting the win. I think HBK/Y2J will have a lot of shitty punches and chops, but will have a fantastic finish. Because that is one of the honestly "great" things HBK does. He is a genius at taking it home, but what we're going to get between the times, is what I’m not looking forward to. In all likelihood there is going to be some tedious chain wrestling, that evolves in to some shitty brawl, which will lead to a big HBK bump, which will lead in to Y2J holding HBK in the Walls for 3 minutes, and then the big HBK flash SCM finish, or a Batista run in that leads to a disqualifications or some shit. HBK will make this match good, all Jericho has to do is not fuck anything up. It'd be great if HBK/Jericho were setting Batista up for a major swerve. Taker/Edge is going to be good, but I think I'm on the "end this feud" bandwagon. HHH/Orton might easily be match of the night, and should be a MOTYC. Hunter wins, but I wouldn't be shocked if Orton steals it. Punk/Kane vs Miz/Morrison. Punk turns on Kane, wins the ECW title and is welcomed in to the Palace of Wisdom. or

I'm not sure people were rushing to buy the PPV to see 3-4 comedy characters, an unknown and Johnny Devine going at it in a cage. Don't get me wrong, the match was pretty fun and a great opener. But it was hardly a well built up match. Joe/Angle and Team Christian/Team Tomko sold that PPV. This almost identical to what I said. The point is Angle isn't a established draw, he never was, and probably never will be.

What I get from that (Other than TNA buyrates are awful), is that in 2007 Angle only drew when paired with a guy like Joe or Sting, where as Joe did a bigger buyrate when paired with Christian. Which would mean Angle needs Joe, more than Joe needs Angle. Or you could easily say, that nobody in the company is really a draw at all, which would probably be more accurate. HTQ I get what you're saying that if TNA was booked better, than Angle could be a draw, but TNA isn't booked well, so it really doesn't matter. As it is now, he isn't a proven draw, they might've gotten some good (for TNA standard) numbers for Lockdown, but I don't think you can give Joe/Angle all the credit for that, the Lethal Lockdown match has a lot to do with that also. The build was fantastic for that card was great all around; even Kip James/BG James had a nice build. TNA for one month did everything right, and Lockdown was successful because of it, Joe/Angle deserve some credit, don't get me wrong, but if Team Cage/Team Tomko feud wasn't put together right, I doubt the show wouldn't have been half as successful. So in essence, if they would've relied on the Joe/Angle program to hold up the show, it wouldn't have worked as well. This means, Angle isn’t an established draw, a proven draw can bring fans to any show, on his name alone, and Angle can’t do this. I think Angle right now, would be better off in the same role HBK is now in the WWE. The one thing TNA has going for them, by not having an established bread winner is they can make some. They have a huge roster of talent, and a plethora of guys they can construct in to something extraordinary, WWE is stagnant because they have a bigger audience, who don’t do well with change, when it all comes at one time. TNA has the luxury of elevating a whole new generation of stars, they have the perfect set of guys that could get these new guys over, In Sting, Angle, Nash, Jarrett, And Booker T. Those guys aren’t going to bring you any new viewers, but they’re big enough names to get the company recognized, and they can help usher in a new generation of guys, who could bring in new viewers.

The JBL/Eddie match was awesome, and that alone makes the show a must see. That feud was the only reason to watch Smackdown at the time.

He also has had one of the lowest buyrates ever. The guy isn't a proven draw, just because he gave them a high number one time doesn't mean he's a proven draw. In reality even them numbers was awful for a company with all the resources TNA has at it's finger tips.

Angle is a proven draw?

I agree.

Who cares what you think about me? That is a lie, him having good matches obviously have something to do with the reception he gets. No the argument is why is somebody as Bland as Kaz getting a push in the heavyweight secnse, when it's obvious Lethal is more over and will be accepted more than Kaz. If TNA sucks, than saying it sucks is always a good argument. With guys like you are basically saying is Lethal wouldn't get over in WWE, but he isn't in WWE. In TNA the guy would be a realistic champion, but you know, it doesn't matter. I kind of enjoy watching Joe getting treated like a joke, maybe Lethal shouldn't be pushed as a top guy in TNA, seeing as TNA doesn't have any top guys anyway, they'll just fuck the character up like they always do. So I can enjoy Lethal, dominating the X Division and being more over than most of the roster, and also putting on better matches than the whole roster. I'm glad I've learned in this thread that being over, having the best matches on the show, and connecting with the crowd emotionally on different levels, doesn't qualify to get you a push. But pushing a guy like Kaz, who is bland, boring, and has no gimmick is a good idea. Yeah, like I said, I see why TNA does the stupid shit they do.

Orton gets a ton of heat. Umaga gets a ton of heat, hell the fans have been begging for him to be made face since mania. He even out popped Batista. His gimmick is awesome, and I don't see how anybody could say other wise. Batista push to the moon was succesful. Orton's push has been succesful. Cena's push has been almost legendary, and even changed the whole direction of the company. Edge is a goof, who has been playing the same character for 3 years. His best work has been with Cena and Taker, but both of them have had better feuds in the last year, than their feud with Edge. Edge on the other hand has had bad matches with the likes of Batista, Mysterio, and a few passable matches with Punk since he's been on Smackdown. Orton and Cena have been better than Edge for a few months now. Don't get me wrong Edge is a awesome heel, but to say he's better than Cena, Orton, Batista, and even Umaga is a bit of a stretch.

There is no blind bias, because really I don't expect TNA to do anything right. The fact is the guy is the most over face in the company, under guys like Joe and Sting. He's the only guy on the roster that consistently has good-great matches every times he performs, he's over enough to be moved up the card and given a serious push. When he was called to ditch the Macho bit, and deliver a "serious promo" he delivered, the fans would accept him as a top guy in TNA. The only thing you people are saying is "He's a Macho rip off", and I've already blown up that argument out of the water. Here is the simple truth. When it comes down to a wrestler, is all about 3 things. Can he cut a promo? Can he work? IS he getting over with the fans? The answer to all 3 is yes, in Lethal’s case. It's just that simple, the reason TNA hasn't pushed him, isn't because of his gimmick, it's because the bookers are incompetent goofs. The guy isn't booked in Shark Boy and Curry Man type angles, because the company knows he's above that. If they thought he was just a "parody character" they would book him like Shark Boy, Eric Young, or Curry Man, but they don't. The reality of all this is, they know Lethal has a ton of potential, but they don't want him to take the chance on him, because they simply don't know how.

First of all, Edge has been on TV far longer and got over both in the ring and on the mic as a midcarder. Cena and Orton have been projects of the "we can make ANYONE a star by sheer force without them having to earn fan acceptance" machine that was originally built for Triple H and has been pumping out 'main eventers' like Batista and Umaga and Lashley and Orton and Cena ever since. These days you can practically spot the 'chosen one', and they go from curtain jerker to feuding with Triple H almost overnight. (or worse Mr. McMahon, since god knows seeing Vince being knocked around by guys half his age has never started to become routine or ridiculous in principle) Secondly, yeah, Cena's suffering from the bland watered-down effect that happened to post-Corporation Rock and post-WM19 Brock. If you look back in the days of World Life, the padlock and brass knux, and the pre-match rhymes; it's not quite as revolutionary as it used to be but it's way way WAAAAAAAY better than the Chain Gang Souljah Marine Hustle Loyalty Respect HOO-RAH version of Cena that we have today. Like heel Rock and like monster Brock and like Eddie, Cena had this lovable bad boy charm that made him popular because he was so good at being a heel. But rather than heeling it up for pops like Eddie cheating to win, they decided to make him a role model. That was the mistake. WOW...I know you can't believe that.

He could add to the parody, the gimmick is already established enough that the fans take him seriously. He can slowly get away from it, and still be Black Machismo. He could bring out the Savage act when he's cutting a promo, that calls for him to make fun of his opponent, every now and than. When it gets serious, he could you know, get serious. This isn't really that hard understand, just doing away with the gimmick would be dumb, but adding layers and molding it in to his own character is possible and would work, like I said this was proven after he "saved" the X division.

There has never been a credible money drawing champion in TNA...Period. He doesn't have to drop the entire gimmick, to cut a regular promo. This was proven when he was given the ceremony after saving the X Division from 3D, he ditched the Macho gimmick and the fans ate the promo up. Ditching a gimmick that got him over, would be stupid, which is why I know TNA will eventually do this. If his gimmick delivers in and out of the ring, that is what matters, he's the most over face on the roster under Joe and Sting, in TNA of all places he would be accepted as the champ. I'm sure before 2010, this company will figure out a way, to give Super Eric the Championship, before they give it to Lethal. They are idiots. Hell, Abyss is a Kane/Mick Foley rip off, and he was even the champion of the company. So yeah, there is a realistic argument to be made for Lethal, and I'm sure you know this. But hey, we can keep going back and forth. EDIT: And "TNA sucks" is always a valid argument, because you know, TNA does indeed suck.

Punk hasn't held the ECW championship "mutiple times", but I get your point.

http://forums.thesmartmarks.com/index.php?showtopic=90486 That is a whole thread with a few people agreeing with me, and in this very thread a couple have agreed with me. So you're wrong...Again. I'm no blind mark for Lethal, the truth is he's over and the fans would accept him in the title scene in TNA, and that isn't really saying much. Because TNA title scene is such a joke, that even Shark Boy could win the title, and nobody would be suprised. What I'm saying is Lethal, is constantly the show stealer, on the ppv's, and his segements are the most entertaining. The fans would get behind him, if he was chasing for the TNA title. I can see if we were talking about some prestigious title that people took seriously, but we're talking about the TNA title, and on a TNA scale Lethal is as good as it gets.

I rather the heel do something like, give the face champ a sneak attack or beat down. something of that nature. The last 2 dudes that have confronted Joe as Champion, have called him a fat piece of shit, who because he's fat, is a disgrace to the company. The next guy, just smacks him in the face, nobody respects him enough to even take cheap shots, they figure he's a fat loser who doesn't deserve the belt. Even his side kick Nash, is treating him like a goof. I mean Joe isn't going to win a mic war with guys like Angle, Steiner, and Booker T. So you shouldn't put him in that position, his gimmick is basically that he's a bad ass fighter, his challengers should respect that a little.

I don't know, Punk best matches has came from Morrison. Yet, I've seen Morrison have better matches with Jeff than his series with Punk, and his match with Batista might've been Batista best match this year, that didn't involve Taker. Morrison (to me) is great in single and tag teams, Punk is ok, but given a choice between the 2, I'd take Morrison easily.

Cabbageboy throwing a throne through his TV would be amazing Nice. lol

MIZ? I can see maybe Morrison, but MIZ? Morrison is light years better than Punk, that's a given. I think Miz is more entertaining than Punk also, eventhough Miz might not be a better wrestler than Punk to some people.

I get a good laugh every time Punk loses, it never fails. It also helps that I think Miz, is more entertaining than Punk.

The difference in Sharky and Lethal, is Lethal has good matches, more often than half of the roster. Shark boy has never beaten Angle cleanly, Shark boy has never beaten both Dudley's by himself, and Shark boy has never been the glue that kept a whole division going. Shark boy and Young are portrayed as idiots (and rightfully so). Lethal is the most entertaining guy on the show, no matter how hard they try to sabotage his character. Lethal has been effective in the segments he was asked to play serious, guys like Shark boy and Young can't get over in that environment, because they suck. Guys like Kaz can't get over on Lethal's level, because he's a boring character with a bland gimmick. Lethal doesn’t have to drop the Black Machismo gimmick; he can stray from acting like Savage all the time. Lethal can put his twist on the character and it would be still effective, even if he does at times still acts like Macho. The problem is the bookers don't know what they are doing, and can't see the goldmine they have with the guy. I guess I should be happy that Storm is getting a push, but I don't even see that ending well.

Cabbageboy might've thrown something through his TV.

Yeah, I still can't believe people are still with the whole "Cena and Orton sucks" bit. They are arguably the 2 best performers in the business, it's time to stop the hating, kids. I mean people actually like Edge, and don't like Cena and Orton.

You know, the thing is this. If people are willing to accept guys like, Kaz, Joe, and Styles, but think a guy like Lethal is a joke. It almost makes me understand why TNA does the stupid shit that they do. The fans are just as confused as the booking team in TNA. AJ Styles gets praised nearly everywhere you turn, the guy is a complete goof, yet people are prepared to accept and are asking for him to get a title run. Joe and Kaz are both plain as white bread; nevertheless people say they can take them seriously in the title picture. Lethal is entertaining on all levels, yet his character shouldn't be taken seriously because it started off as a rib on Macho (who actually endorsed Lethal). People completely disregard how he has tweaked the gimmick, and has added his own flavor too it. They also ignore that he's the only consistently good performer on the roster. You can always look forward to a Lethal match, a Lethal promo, and no matter how ridiculous the angle he is involved in, you can always look forward to him making the storyline work.