Who is truly capable of ***** matches in WWE?

[Guest JHawk]

I think anybody is capable of a ***** match with the right opponent. My main gripe with star ratings is too many people take off for the finish. In my mind, Rock-Jericho from No Mercy was 2001's MOTY ad an easy *****, but no one will agree with me because Stephanie McMahon interfered. Angle-Austin from SummerSlam 2001 was an easy *****, but no one will agree because of the DQ finish (which I still like for the record).

 

Realistically, star ratings are simply too subjective to accurately portray in a thread like this. I've already described two matches I thought were ***** with wrestlers that some people don't think are capable of it. That's part of what makes pro wrestling s great though. Everybody has their own opinions, and it makes for interesting conversation.

[Guest Downhome]

I think anybody is capable of a ***** match with the right opponent. My main gripe with star ratings is too many people take off for the finish. In my mind, Rock-Jericho from No Mercy was 2001's MOTY ad an easy *****, but no one will agree with me because Stephanie McMahon interfered. Angle-Austin from SummerSlam 2001 was an easy *****, but no one will agree because of the DQ finish (which I still like for the record).

The thing is, the finish is what leaves an imprint in the viewers mind. A good finish can make a bad match seem better than it is, and a bad one make a great match seem lackluster.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Angle

Benoit

Jericho

Eddy.

 

Those 4 I know can bust them out when in combination with each other.

 

CAn RVD have one?

 

hmmm...

 

I've wondered that myself.

 

In fact I questioned it in the "What is your favorites flaw" thread.

 

He and Eddy were so in tune by the end of that feud (SEE: Judgment Day...better than the ladder match IMO. the ladder match, the tag match with Brock and Bubba and the KOTR Qualifier...all great to good matches).

 

I think given time in a match (after all...the ladder match was the longest match they had...almost as long as their 2 ppv matches combined) they could have one.

[Guest Coffin Surfer]

NO, Sadly I don't think were ever going to see a ***** mens match for a long time. The last one was a tag match in 96, Misawa/Jun vs. Kawada/Taue. The last single match to come close was Kawada/Kobashi's ****3/4 match in 98.

 

IMO Bret/Owen from Wrestlemania X is the only WWF match, you could make a good argument for giving ***** to. Not only does it have flawless inring work, but it has deep storytelling to elevate it to the next level.

 

On the current WWF roster Benoit and Eddy are the only ones to come close to working a ***** match. But both are past their primes, and are slowly falling victim to the WWF style.

[Guest wolverine]

NO, Sadly I don't think were ever going to see a ***** mens match for a long time. The last one was a tag match in 96, Misawa/Jun vs. Kawada/Taue. The last single match to come close was Kawada/Kobashi's ****3/4 match in 98.

 

I have to disagree with you here again, in that Misawa vs. Kobashi 1/20/97 will always be ***** to me and the 2nd greatest singles match ever. But to each his own.

[Guest Coffin Surfer]

I have to disagree with you here again, in that Misawa vs. Kobashi 1/20/97 will always be ***** to me and the 2nd greatest singles match ever.  But to each his own.

To me it will always be ****3/4. If only Misawa would have sold his ribs after the hitting the frog splash. That would have made Kobashi's body work have more meaning, rather than eating the clock. Or how Kobashi made a blocked clothesline look more painful on his arm, than Misawa made 10 minutes of arm work look on his.

 

It would have been awesome, if Kobashi somehow managed to take away all of Misawa's weapons, and Misawa would have to find a new way to win. Like break out his old Tiger Mask kicks or something. That's what I was expecting when I first saw the match, instead Misawa through a swerve by making all of Kobashi's early offense into filler. But oh well.

[Guest undisputedjericho]

Jericho, Angle, Benoit, Guerrero, Flair, Booker, Rock.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I like Booker alot.

 

But can someone remind me of a match he had that was over ***1/2 stars?

 

Ever?

[Guest undisputedjericho]

Keith gave his match with Rock ***3/4.

[Guest Downhome]

I like Booker alot.

 

But can someone remind me of a match he had that was over ***1/2 stars?

 

Ever?

I do not recall them exactly, but what about one of those matches with Benoit in the Best of Seven? Speaking of Seven...

 

...anyone remember that besides me?

[Guest Brian]

His match Benoit, I think the fourth in the series, was up around ****, maybe more. I have that tape, I'll watch it tomorrow maybe. I think Booker has those weird tendencies like RVD where you get a good worker who can harness that might get more out of him.

 

I think Bret/Flair iron man match is also five stars. Best WWF match I've ever seen.

[Guest y2jailbait]

Well, Booker T had a great outing with Eddie Guerrero at Uncensored '98 and that led him to the awesome Best of Seven series. He also has had great outings as part of Harlem Heat and a pretty good run with Jeff Jarrett (At least i think) in 2000 WCW.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I forgot about the Benoit series...those were good.

 

I agree with the RVD/Book comparison that Brian just made...but the difference IMO is that RVD can have a watchable match with bad workers...where Booker can be in some messes.

 

I'll use their Brock Lesnar matches on back to back Raws as a source.

[Guest Brian]

But their messes in that Rock breaking out of the nation-way. I mean, they still are there to build a ton of crowd heat but Book doesn't have to do the significant bumping like a RVD or Jericho. That's why I think Booker's going to be big, because he could have that something if they're willing to give him a try. He totally surprised them as a heel, and he's always been a good face. He's got the mic skills, he has the potential (like Rock).

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Booker has had his moments, but he's no where near capable of ***** these days. Honestly a **** match out of him is a near miracle in this day and age.

 

And I think Benoit is, but it's still early to tell since he hasn't had a big match since his return. Eddy, Angle, and Jericho are maybe's, I think.

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

Likely Candidates:

 

Benoit

Guererro

Austin

Angle

Rock

Jericho

Mysterio Jr.

 

Those are the definites due to high quality production in the past and lack of major injuries recently. I will give guys who are just returning (Benoit, Rock) the benefit of doubt (unlike say HHH who has been back for months with no improvement).

 

Possibles:

 

HHH: if he loses the bulk mass, turns heel, and feuds with the Rock again.

RVD: if he improves on some of his minor problems to the point where he can work a 20-30 minute main event match successfully.

Regal: if he feuds with Benoit maybe.

 

 

Nos:

 

Booker T: getting up there in years, has had numerous surgeries that have slowed him down (lost moves like harlem hangover, etc.), didn't produce anything really over **** with Benoit in his prime.

Tajiri: when has he ever shown this potential? I like him but in Japan he'd be nothing really special, his resume is lacking in the really high quality stuff.

Storm: good technician but doesn't put together a good match, he's hit **** maybe once or twice.

Edge: don't see him ever being in a true classic singles match (and for the record I don't think TLCs are ***** like some people do).

[Guest EricMM]

But you see, thats why this whole concept of who can do five star matches and who can't isn't practical.

 

I mark for Tajiri. I WISH I had taped the Xmas Santas match, because I also mark for Buh Buh Ray. He put a Ho Ho Ho in the middle of a superplex. It was gold!

 

To me that's cocky, thats what a heel (santa) should do in a match. I was hella entertained by that match. No it wasn't five star. BUT I liked it better than the Owen/Bret match that keeps getting thrown around.

 

It depends on what you mark for I really really think that's key.

 

You're always going to have your preferences be they Puro matches, Hogan matches, whatever.

 

I maintain that most wrestlers could possibly have a five star match. They just won't most nights. It's not something they can do every night, on cue, or else they would.

 

Its not as if they don't try, and in general the succeed, but for the best of the best of the best, it takes as much luck as talent IMO

[Guest TheSmarkzone]

Depends what you consider to be a ***** match.

 

I agree 110% with JHawk's picks, and it's good to see another fan who isn't overly picky about handing out *****. Hell, not every match can be Shawn vs. Razor from WrestleMania.

 

I would give the following matches from the past year a ***** rating:

 

Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle, SummerSlam 2001...screwy finish or not, this match was a ***** classic. IMO, no stars should be deducted just because there wasn't a clean pinfall or submission. If anything, the screwy Nick Patrick finish kept this match from going to ***** Hall of Fame (i.e. Bret vs. Owen, Razor vs. Shawn, etc.).

 

Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Rock, WrestleMania X-7...see above.

 

The Rock vs. Chris Jericho, Royal Rumble 2002...my MOTY thus far. Jericho and Rocky tore the house down from bell to bell. I loved the desperation finish.

 

TLC II, WrestleMania X-7...not many people argue with me on this one.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

In theory anyone can have a ***** match.

 

But COME ON!!, a ***** match is a perfect match. Guys like Edge have never got close to five stars. John Cena better develop some actual wrestling if he ever wants to get to a ***** match. Someone actually said Bubba Ray!

 

A ***** match is a special thing, and it shouldn't be suggested that people like Tommy Dreamer could wrestle a ***** match.

 

For me, Only Benoit, Guerrero, Angle and Dean Malenko could wrestle a ***** match in WWE right now.

[Guest Brian]

"But COME ON!!, a ***** match is a perfect match."

 

No such thing as perfect. Perfect is a fleeting moment. Once you reach it, it's gone.

[Guest The Vanilla Midget]

really, there are three people who would have to be one of the parties in a match for it to be rated ***** at the moment. if one of

-chris benoit

-eddy guerrero

-kurt angle

are not there, then ***** simply wont happen imo.

 

however, there are a number of people who are easily capable of being carried to ***** and putting on ****+ in their own right. these would be:

-jericho (if motivated and with the right opponent)

-RVD

-Edge

-Lance Storm

 

some others who are outside chances to get to ***** would include:

-The Rock (very underrated imo)

-val venis

-Booker T

-Christian

-Shane Helms (Big maybe)

-Billy Kidman

-Rey Misterio Jr. (maybe on all the cruisers).

 

at this stage though, unless one of the top 3 was in the match, the chances of ***** appearing are slim to nil.

[Guest redbaron51]

Benoit

Jericho

Angle

Rock (give the right opponent)

Triple H see above

Hogan*

Eddy

Booker

Goldust (see Rock)

and the cruisers

 

On the technical basis of the match itself, it'll be hard to do unless given a great match between Benoit and Bret Hart for 10 minutes or longer or Benoit and Takada (right puro fans?). If there is no hype or signifigance of a match then it'll never be a ***** classic.

 

Thats why Warrior vs Hogan is a *****

Flair vs Steambot in 89 a *****

Hart vs Hart *****

Michaels vs Austin *****

 

the hype, the build up, the storyline has to incoporate into a ***** match. Without it it'll be *** or a **** match. Thats why Hogan can throw a five start match (Hogan and Rock would have been that but it never did turn out that well.)

 

RVD and Jeff Hardy are capable, but they really need some one to carry them for a long match, other than that they are nothing but spot machines. RVD has talent, but as the matches go longer, the match usually well ends up very boring. He needs to learn the basics of a long match to pull out a ***** match.

 

Jeff Hardy can work out a ***** match with his brother, but as a singles wrestler thats gonna take some time, he is just like RVD, very sloppy with the matches and really put the risk of his opponents in danger

 

*awaits to get flamed*

[Guest Your Olympic Hero]

Eddy Guerrero

Chris Benoit

Kurt Angle

[Guest Your Olympic Hero]

Also, Red Baron said he was waiting to get flamed.

 

Goldust having a ***** match is like Michael Cole saying somethig intelligent about wrestling: it's just not going to happen.

 

And Hogan/Warrior was far from a ***** match, no matter the crowd size or the hype: it was still Hogan/Warrior, nothing can fix that.

[Guest The Vanilla Midget]

Also, Red Baron said he was waiting to get flamed.

 

Goldust having a ***** match is like Michael Cole saying somethig intelligent about wrestling: it's just not going to happen.

 

And Hogan/Warrior was far from a ***** match, no matter the crowd size or the hype: it was still Hogan/Warrior, nothing can fix that.

goldust was in the 10 man tag at canadian stampede iirc. that was classed ***** by a few people i believe.

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

"it was still Hogan/Warrior, nothing can fix that. "

 

That doesn't mean it can't be good. I certainly don't think it's *****, but it's in the ***1/2 star range. If you are going to rate with star ratings, use them to handicap the match rather than the workers.

 

"Goldust having a ***** match is like Michael Cole saying somethig intelligent about wrestling: it's just not going to happen."

 

Check out Dustin/Steamboat vs. Anderson/Zbysko

[Guest redbaron51]

I've seen Goldust wrestle in a few house shows and at WCW, and believe me, if the WWE can take him seriously, Goldust can throw out one hell of a match, and even *****. He is probably one of the most over guys on Raw, and he is a great technical wrestler like Benoit, Angle and Jericho, but does not receive the credit he deserves. If you give Goldust the IC or European (oh man that would so rule), and get some one like Jericho or D'lo another guy with potential to get a ***** match, Goldust can be a threat.

 

If the WWE acts smart, D'Lo Brown is also another great wrestler who can throw a **** match even ***** with the right opponent. D'Lo has tons of untapped potential to become a big maiv eventer.

 

I remember Ross saying this to D'lo a few years back

 

when D'lo had the Euro or IC belt "D'lo in few years will probably be a great WWF champion"

 

Right now, D'lo is working on commentary, and is developing good mic skills...after that he could be another big threat to hold up the WWE World Belt.

 

Also you have Tazz who has tons of potential, but he needs to have his full arsenal of moves back...

[Guest Indy]

Benoit

Jericho

Angle

RVD

[Guest The Vanilla Midget]

apparently tazz is gonna be becoming an announcer, so we wont be seeing any *****'s from him in the near future.

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

apparently tazz is gonna be becoming an announcer, so we wont be seeing any *****'s from him in the near future. "

 

You wouldn't be seeing any *****'s from him regardless. Sucky wrestlers generally don't produce good matches.