Who is truly capable of ***** matches in WWE?

[Guest The Vanilla Midget]

it was in response to an earlier post

[Guest redbaron51]

so i guess by your quote, RVD won't get a ***** star match either?

[Guest Austin3164life]

The only three wrestlers right now in the WWE who I would bet money on carrying people to 4-5 star classics are Chris Benoit, Kurt Angle, and Eddie Guerrero. Guerrero and Benoit both have that excellent ring presence and experience to tell a great story, but Angle is as technically pure as anyone else around today, and he can make a match appear superb as well.....

[Guest EricMM]

Such negativity, such pessimism.

 

You all seriously think that at most 3 people in the whole roster will EVER have a five star match?

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

I'd have to agree w/ AustinHHHforlife, my picks go to Benoit, Angle and Eddy. Benoit and Eddy have had proven ***** matches outside WWF, Angle hasn't had a ***** match in the WWF yet, though I don't doubt that he will one day.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Such negativity, such pessimism.

 

You all seriously think that at most 3 people in the whole roster will EVER have a five star match?

Umm....yeah.

 

Five stars is perfect- no, beyond perfect. Anyone who thinks Bubba is game for that should seriously rethink their take on what ***** really means.

 

In my mind, ***** is not something "anyone can have with the right apponent" it's two wrestlers doing absolutely everything to complete perfection, selling, pacing, and using credible offense at the perfect moments to utalize them the best they can be. It's a perfect story that makes sense and is never borring, always engaging in some way. It's a multi-layered story, that takes twists and turns and remains compelling all the way to the end. That's why matches with schmoz endings are never *****'s, because that hurts the most important part of the match - the finish- in the worst way and prevents it from ever being *****'s. No one is ever "carried" to *****. It takes two to get it done.

 

Again, if you disagree and think that RVD, Bubba, and John Cena are ***** material, then you obviously have diferent standards than me, because frankly I find that to be an absolute joke. I hate to sound harsh, and I enjoy all three as workers, but to say they can have ***** matches is demeaning to every other trully great match. If Rock/Jericho is five stars, what is Bret/Austin, a clearly better match? I don't even consider Bret/Austin to be five stars, but it's certainly better than Angle/Austin and Jericho/Rock. So what does that make Bret/Austin? *****1/2 stars? Unless you have your standards where they should be, it's only a matter of time before this problem happens to you when rating matches. Everyone is entitlted to an opinion, but I just can't believe people are calling Rock/Jericho a ***** match. And before the whole world jumps on me for "not being able to enjoy great matches", just because I enjoy a match (which is true for Rock/Jericho) does not mean I have to call it a five-star match. But I guess it's diferent strokes for diferent fokes, in this case.

[Guest claydude14]

triple H is very capable, look at his work during the mcmahon-helmsley era.

[Guest Nezbyte]

CENA JUST STARTED IN THE WWE! Christ, i dont expect a 5* match from an onscreen rookie.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

Personally, I thought that Benoit/Austin was about as close to a 5 star match that the WWF has gotten to since Hart/Austin.

[Guest Austin3164life]

It all depends on what you think a five star match is. Personally, I think there have been only a handful of them. A five star match is a bout where it keeps you into it, the whole time. And after it, the match was so good you can't say anything bad about it. For example, the three matches I picked that were perfect, were Bret/Austin (WM XIII, Storytelling/cultural value), Savage/Steamboat, and Bret/Owen (WM X). I still can't find anything wrong with these three matches today. These are just my opinions, but some people here are willing to accept that there have been like 25 ***** matches. People like Flair, Bret, Austin, Michaels, Rock, Owen, Benoit, Guerrero, and probably Angle are highly capable of putting on perfect matches. It just depends on the chemistry between the two guys. I, for one, think Austin and Bret had the best chemistry in any match they've been involved in (so does Bret). It's just a matter of opinion on who can have a ***** match......

[Guest Nezbyte]

Guys who can have ***** matchs, whom are currently employed by WWE:

 

Chris Benoit

Chris Jericho

Lance Storm

Rob Vab Dam

Eddy Gurrero

Rey Mysterio Jr.

Hunter Herst Helmsly

The Rock

[Guest Your Olympic Hero]

Austin/Angle from Summerslam needed a little less punching and kicking, and a clean finish... and that would have been *****.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

I actually liked the finish to the SummerSlam match. It just seemed pretty ingenius(however the hell you spell it) to me.

[Guest TheSoleSurvivor]

In the context of what they were trying to accomplish (Austin NOT dropping the title and having Angle leave with credibility), it was ingenius.

[Guest Austin3164life]

I actually liked the finish to the SummerSlam match. It just seemed pretty ingenius(however the hell you spell it) to me.

If you took away the screwy finish to the Austin/Angle Summerslam match, and put the finish that happened at Unforgiven, that would've been by far the match of the year last year.

 

Speaking of MOTYs, a logical way to deduce the greatest matches of the modern era would be to look at all of the MOTY's from 1987-2001. That would be 14 of the best matches of the past 15 or so years in wrestling. Here's my list.....

 

1987- Ricky Steamboat vs. Randy Savage (WM 3)

1988- Undecided

1989- Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat (Wrestlewars?)

1990- Ric Flair vs. Sting (Don't know exactly which event)

1991- Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect (Summerslam)

1992- Royal Rumble

1993- Undecided

1994- Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart (WM 10)

1995- Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon (Summerslam)

1996- Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart (Survivor Series)

1997- Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart (WM 13)

1998- Dude Love vs. Steve Austin (Over The Edge)

1999- The Rock vs. Steve Austin (Backlash)

2000- Triple H vs. Cactus Jack (Royal Rumble)

2001- Chris Benoit vs. Steve Austin (May 31, SD!)

 

That's the best list I can think of for now. I think for the past 15 years, these are some of the best matches you can find. I didn't put a lot of WCW because I haven't seen a lot of it and I can't think of some matches......

[Guest LJSexay]

Honestly, 5 star matches are so fucking impossible to rate, because we all have different tastes, no one taste is better than another, and you can't EVER say one match is better than another because somebody might and will disagree. No two 5 star matches are alike, nor can you say they are better, they may be radically different though.

 

curse you nit pickers.

[Guest Rabbi_wilson13]

The key for a match to get 5*'s from me is that it has to have a story and the crowd has to be into it.

 

You know what one of my favorite matches of all time is, and I you all probably hate it and think its **'s.

 

HHH vs. Undertaker at WM 17. I was there, and the crowd was so behind UT and so against HHH...and when HHH was pulled out of his turnbuckle punches and given the Last Ride....man, that was great.

 

Austin/Angle at Summerslam would be a definite 5 * in everybody's mind if not for that finish, but that finish was soooo perfect for a DQ. The whole match Austin's fearing Angle and Angle just can't beat him, but Austin just can't keep Angle down. So if you're a heel champion and you look like your going to lose your title, what do you do? You get DQed! It's brilliant.

 

I think Rock is more than capable of a 5 * match. I don't care about a moveset, but the man sells and he keeps the crowd in the palm of his hand.

 

My idea of what the next ***** would be?

 

A serious, snapped heel Angle defending his championship against Rock. Those two entertain me every time they get in the ring, and with Angle coming in a serious competitor and an equal to Rocky with the crowd against him all the way and both men's charisma...It could be something special.

 

That, or a killer heel Benoit against a babyface Angle. That could be just as special.

[Guest godthedog]

I, for one, think Austin and Bret had the best chemistry in any match they've been involved in (so does Bret).

 

minor detail, but i think bret would probably say that he & owen had the best chemistry of anyone he's ever worked with.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Nezbyte: You are correct. I should have put "at this point" before mentioning his name, because it is way too early to tell with a guy like him. I have my doubts, but I still can't pass judgement on him.

 

As for ***** matches in the WWF, I can only think of two that I believe deserve it, and that's Bret/Owen from Wrestlemania X and Austin/Bret from Survivor Series '96. They both told a story better than anything I've seen done since then, and the selling, offense, and psychology behind what they're doing all seems completely credible. Austin/Bret from Wrestlemania XII is a tough thing to rate, but I just can't give it ***** in good concience. The absence of the Million Dollar Dream Spot (which was the finish to their previous encounter and thus, should have definately been referenced to in the re-match) and the occasionally slow brawling kept this from achieving perfection, to me. I know many with more knowledge of wreslting than I who consider it *****'s, but again, I can't convince myself that it truly is.

[Guest Brian]

See, I look at the million dollar dream spot from two sides. First, they probably should have used it. But second, Austin knew that Bret knew how to reverse it so he might have felt it was useless. Again, he should have at least attempted it.

 

Once again, perfection is a fleeting moment. Once you reach it, it's not perfect anymore.

 

1992 MOTY was, hands down, Bret/Flair iron man match. That is a ***** match. Where's the WCW love AustinHHH4Life?

[Guest Zero_Cool]

You know, I bet Austin looks back at the WM match five years ago and always slaps himself in the head remembering how he could've hit a backdrop if they did the million dollar dream spot.

 

The Rock (without rust) is a lock for ***** matches, I think.

[Guest goodhelmet]

al snow

[Guest Brian]

Back in the day Snow could, but he's at least five years past that point.

[Guest goodhelmet]

i disagree. i still think snow could go if he wanted to but has been saddled with ridiculous gimmicks and bad hardcore matches. plus, he's probably getting more pub and cred by being the tough enough trainer than anything else he's done in his career.

[Guest Brian]

Yeah, but he's also not nearly as good as he once was. Snow getting credibility isn't going to help him have good matches.

[Guest Anglesault]

triple H is very capable, look at his work during the mcmahon-helmsley era.

That wa salso before the injury and 30 pounds in water weight.

[Guest MrRant]

triple H is very capable, look at his work during the mcmahon-helmsley era.

That wa salso before the injury and 30 pounds in water weight.

So if he loses the water weight he will be back to capable?

[Guest Anglesault]

Quite possibly. But he really doesn't seem too motivated to do so. He was just on the cover of some body building magazine.

[Guest Brian]

He's going to be bloated for quite a while until he realizes he has no credibility at all right now in the body building community.

[Guest Black Tiger]

Stupid finishes are usualy what make great matches miss the ***** mark. Angle and Austin, Angle and Benoit, I have yet to see Jericho vs Rock so I can't comment on that one.

 

Angle, Eddie, and Benoit could take any wrestler to *****, but the thread isn't who can CARRY someone to ***** its who can HAVE *****.

 

I think given, less stupid T-shirt skits, and maybe one more big match Angle could have taken Edge to *****, AS will say I'm full of shit but that's what I think.

 

Edge, Kidman, Kanyon, Storm, RVD, and Tajiri are the only WWE guys I think can make it to ***** without using ladders and the like.