History Books

[Guest BorneAgain]

After reading Lies My Teacher Told Me I believe that the American history book should be changed to fit what really happened, not remain as white washy crap that speaks as if everything works itself out. I think students deserve to know what Columbus did to the Indians, the reality of the first thanksgiving, the abuse toward Native Americans, and the truth about Reconstruction. Tell me what you think

[Guest MrRant]

Perhaps your teachers taught that way but everything I was taught was not like that. They teach you that in middle/high school. Don't make the elementary school kids have to deal with that.

[Guest Kingpk]

I agree with MrRant. I took a course on genocide in my Junior year (which dealt with the colonists' treatment of the natives) and that's definitely something you should not be exposing 3rd graders to

[Guest BorneAgain]

I didn't mean for elementary schools to teach it. I'm referring to the middle and High schools who still present American History as something perfect

[Guest MrRant]

They do.

[Guest kkktookmybabyaway]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, whitey sucks. I don't have to read it in a history book.

[Guest MrRant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, whitey sucks. I don't have to read it in a history book.

I believe you mean cracker and/or honkey the white devil.

[Guest EricMM]

Why don't you want to read about it in a history book, if it's what happened?

 

History books ARE being rewritten, I'm frankly surprised there's an industry for it, considering it IS history. But I guess people want to be more PC, which isn't always a bad thing. I mean one time people were taught that there was nothing in america before columbus! NOTHING before 1492.

 

Nevermind the whole established culture, with deep cultural roots etcetera.

 

-Eric

[Guest MrRant]

We don't want ELEMENTARY school kids to read about this type of thing. Middle and high school they should teach it but let the little kids be little kids. They shouldn't be thinking about genocide at the age of 10. Don't take away a little kids right to be a little kid and enjoy life. If someone tried to teach that to my kid at 7, 8, 9, 10 years old I would be pissed because there is no way to explain it to them. They should wait to teach it until the child is old enough to determine for THEMSELVES whether it was right or wrong. Children at that age will just believe it in whatever way it is being taught.

[Guest bob_barron]

I took AP American and even though the teacher was a dumb shit the textbooks were all honest

[Guest Michael Joel Benoit]

American history is full of bullshit double standards.

[Guest Vyce]

The problem I have with rewriting is that sometimes they might go and focus more upon the negatives than the positives.

 

For example - yes, it's horrible & tragic that Thomas Jefferson owned slaves. And that he actually fathered children with some of them. That's a rather sordid tale. But it doesn't negate the fact that the man was brilliant and played a HUGE hand in making this country what it is today.

 

I just worry that they'll choose the nastier stuff to focus upon rather than the significant accomplishments of our ancestors.

 

I DO want to learn about Abraham Lincoln and his struggles during the Civil War.

 

I do NOT want speculation as to whether or not he was a homosexual.

 

See what I'm getting at here?

[Guest EricMM]

Oh I don't think they would go that far. I think the founding fathers are pretty secure, in fact I think they are frankly underappreciated. Right now it just seems like they were "there" and kids know they signed the constitution, but noone realizes that frankly these men made probably the most signifigant creation, period. Fuck sliced bread, they made America

[Guest MrRant]

Fuck sliced bread, they made America

Don't you have any idea of how much time it would take day in and day out to slice bread?

[Guest Some Guy]

When the founding fathers are reffered to as "dead white men" by a NY school Principal,I think we should worry about changing the teachers before we go for the text books.

Do we need more anti-American bias in our schools? I think having the teachers is enough, the textbooks are fine.

And what does going deeply into every sorid detail of AMerican history accomplish? More Socialists? That's exactly what this country needs.

// Sarcasm

[Guest EricMM]

I THINK the attempt is to remove some of the mystique so that maybe they will be seen as real people?

 

As far as the Principle in NY, he was out of line and the exception.

 

As a hopeful teacher, I don't appreciate your comments regarding them being a problem. I don't care HOW Liberal OR socialist they become, at least they are teaching. Which is like the most important job period. More important than the president or the army or anything. What, you think they do it for the pay?

[Guest MrRant]

Teachers I know make good money. At least $50,000 a year. To me when I work 50 hours a week and make $26,000 how is that fair? Now I am going to school to teach as well, but I am so busy working (thank god AT&T Broadband pays like 5,500 a year towards school upfront) that I won't start till November and I think $50,000 is a great amount.

[Guest Some Guy]

Many teachers get paid plenty. It's part time work, 2 weeks off in December, a week im Feb, another week in April, and three months off in the summer. Are the tax payers supposed to make them millionaires?

Tenured teachers in my town make $60,000 year that's not too shabby IMO. I bust my ass in 100 degree heat in a bakery for $8.50 a hour and they cry the blues about $60,000.

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

Who cares about people's salaries?

 

Guys bitch about having to work for minimum wage doing hard labour just to pay to go to school (hell, I know I don't like painting for 8 hours a day during the summer).

 

Middle-class workers like doctors and teachers bitch about 5-6 figure salaries.

 

Pro athletes bitch about 7-8 figure salaries.

 

Finally, corporate CEO types bitch about how their stock options are only worth 9 figures rather than 10.

 

It's simply a byproduct of a capitalist society, you always want more and are always somewhat jealous of the people above you.

[Guest MrRant]

I am happy with the amount I make and am happy AT&T is going to pay it for me. Maybe if the teachers wouldn't have to have 2 $25,000 cars they would be ok. Just because you teach doesn't mean that you are better than a guy who makes burrito at Taco Bell... nor does that mean you are smarter. And don't give me shit about working through 4 years of college when some people don't even get the chance. Why should a teacher make more than say a lawyer or a doctor who went to school for more time then the teacher? I mentor (help train people) at my work and I don't get paid more for it. I could teach what elementary school teachers teach and I did when I was a TA. It isn't some holy quest and people need to give that idea up. Its an honorable occupation that does give back to children but doesn't mean its more important than any other postition.

[Guest EricMM]

Ok ok perfectly valid. I was just commenting on your anti-american bias comment anyways.

 

Do we need more anti-American bias in our schools? I think having the teachers is enough, the textbooks are fine.

 

I implied that the teachers were bad enough, the textbooks were the only redeeming values.

 

Let me tell you about my 10th grade NSL teacher. Registered Democrat or not, this man wouldn't let up on Clinton. He wouldn't let up on anything that us Tree Hugging kids did at all. And then we had the seven fingered vietnam veteran as the super substitute when the first teacher got sick. Well noone was dissing the vietnam war in that class!

 

I don't think the desire to teach is based on a liberal or conservative slant. It's one of those universal things. Just like there are bad and good teachers, there are conservative ones and liberal ones.

[Guest MrRant]

And the problem would be teachers bringing in their political views. I don't want my gets in that enviroment either way.

 

My 9th grade World History teacher kept trying to push his tree hugging tendencies on us and I being the type of guy I am told him to keep his "Goddamn clean space for me and his fucking Volvo tree hugging rubbish out of my learning experience" that is a quote... and I got kicked out of that class.

 

In my Washinton State History class we were studying Native Americans and I'm sure I will hear from Kinetic on this one but my teacher was going on and on and on about how the white man slaughtered the Indians and I told him "I don't want to sit here and have my fucking time used up by you telling me how bad my ancestors are so go fuck yourself." Another direct quote. Got kicked out of that one too. I don't care about learning about what happened but if you are going to devote the whole class to that then fuck you.

 

I don't want a teacher's religous views, political viewpoint or anything like that to influence my learning. In a discussion its fine but in the actual teaching it is wrong.

[Guest EricMM]

Look what happens when you cuss in class eh MrRant?

 

Of course bias is ... undesirable, but until we get plan B from the simpsons (cybernetic teacher replacements) you have to accept that teachers is like presidents. You get good ones, you get bad ones, and some are just stupid.

 

I mean ideally the president would just make the "correct" decision every time... right? left? moderate? Haha?

[Guest MrRant]

It wasn't the cussing.. it was me standing up to their trying to push their view points into the curriculum. Teachers don't like challenges to their power at all. Unlike the rest of the class who where such sheep to go along with it and complain afterwards I don't take that kind of shit.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Did the teacher tell the class that some American Indians slaughtered innocent women and children.

[Guest goodhelmet]

ok here's the deal.

 

schools are funded with federal dollars. therefore, schools are told to purchase textbooks that preach the ideologies and beliefs of the federal govt. period. if you skim through a history textbook and it's HISTORICALLY inaccurate then what's the point?

 

"I don't want to sit here and have my fucking time used up by you telling me how bad my ancestors are so go fuck yourself."

 

as for your ancestors, they probably didn't slaughter the Indians until after they starved them out.

 

"I don't care about learning about what happened but if you are going to devote the whole class to that then fuck you"

 

um... if you don't care what happened then why were you taking the course?

 

 

"Just because you teach doesn't mean that you are better than a guy who makes burrito at Taco Bell... nor does that mean you are smarter. And don't give me shit about working through 4 years of college when some people don't even get the chance. Why should a teacher make more than say a lawyer or a doctor who went to school for more time then the teacher? I mentor (help train people) at my work and I don't get paid more for it. I could teach what elementary school teachers teach and I did when I was a TA. It isn't some holy quest and people need to give that idea up. Its an honorable occupation that does give back to children but doesn't mean its more important than any other postition. "

 

you're wrong on all accounts. the guy making burritos at taco bell is there because he doesn't have the education or skills or experience to work in a better occupation. And moist teachers don't get in it for the money or they wouldn't go into teaching. For most, it really is a "quest" to help kids learn. With your poor attitude and closed-mind, I seriously doubt you could handle teaching and I am thankful you're not in that role. Teaching the kids isn't more important than any occupation? It's not important for us to be literate nation? Remember, while you are training people at your work, these teachers will be the ones babysitting and teaching your kids so have a little more respect for a profession. As for the teacher salary, when something as valuable as teaching becomes commodified and placed on the bottom of a govt. agends, who loses? everyone involved.

[Guest kkktookmybabyaway]

"For example - yes, it's horrible & tragic that Thomas Jefferson owned slaves. And that he actually fathered children with some of them. That's a rather sordid tale. But it doesn't negate the fact that the man was brilliant and played a HUGE hand in making this country what it is today."

 

Woah. I just got a flashback from 1998 when America was talking about another former president who couldn't keep his pants up...

 

Anyway, I hate that whole Native Americans were wonderful folk until whitey came along. Then again my 11th-grade science teacher was an Indian who made tomahawks in class and showed us his accuracy with one of those thingys that you blow into and a dart comes out, so we never really said anything to piss him off.

[Guest The Vanilla Midget]

i havent bothered to read the entire thread, but one idea struck me about the "primary schoolers shouldnt be subjected to that" thing: why should they be denied the truth??? sure it is "anti-american" to borrow the words of an earlier poster, but america isnt the land of milk and honey (?) that many make it out to be. the earlier they are exposed to this, the greater the chance of them being positively affected by this. after all, why raise them on a lie, its like the matrix in a way.

 

in australia, we had a similar problem in regards to our early colonial history- ie. persecution of aboriginal tribes. however, now this is explored between 4th-6th grade (10-13 yr old children), and todays youth is much more conscious of the past, and also more receptive to reconciliative gestures. the sooner that children realise that even history's greatest heroes were flawed, they will be able to accept their own flaws easier, and also be more tolerant and compassionate for those who are different than they are.

[Guest Vyce]

Personally I'm against any socialist-leaning text being taught in our schools. But that's just because I'm a staunch capitalist.

 

As for the whole Native American issue....my mother's heritage is almostly completely Native American. "Indians" on both paternal & maternal sides of the family. They're my ancestors.

 

That said, I have never (and will never) moaned or complained about how the white man, way back when, slaughtered my people.

 

I hate to sound cold and insensitive, but it was classic cultural warfare. One side took out the other. It's very sad, and some of the atrocities committed by both sides rank right up there amongst the worst crimes ever committed by human beings, but ultimately the Native Americans and their way of life died so that this country could progress to become, with time, the greatest country upon the planet. Progress is never easy; it takes a lot of bloodshed. We wouldn't be where we are today if not for the fierce Manifest Destiny we possessed, if not for the Civil War, if not for the World Wars.....

[Guest GenerationNever]

I also have Native American in me, Cherokee. Of course, I live in the South where old people refer to Native Americans as "Injuns." I know they're old, but it still pisses me off. But at least the Pledge is being changed, that's a step in the right direction. I DON'T think we should teach 3rd graders about genocide but I DON'T think we should honor Columbus too.

 

I'm REALLY tired of having white, conservative, Christian males as Presidents, though. I either want a minority or non Christian as my next President.