Christianity Loopholes?!

[Guest LJSexay]

These past few days there's been a rather touchy subject going on at The Wall, concerning this webpage I found questioning Christianity.

 

Now granted, everything has some flaws in it. But, just to play Devil's Advocate here, there IS quite a lot of doubts and contradictions, quesitons left to be answered, in the bible.

 

If you could all tell me your viewpoints on blind faith ... can you REALLY ignore such questions and allegations by saying 'because god made it so'?? Wouldn't that be blanketing your own insecurities and lack of knowl3dge in your own religion, to just answer everything that way?

 

We need help over there.

[Guest Downhome]

Ask me some specific questions, and I will help you out if you want.

[Guest EricMM]

I try to blame most contradictions and stupidity on the people who wrote the bible: men across the ages. Some groups have called the word of god inerrible. I think that's probably true. But they also consider the bible to be the word for word "word of god" which I think is bunk.

 

In essense there is truth to it, but it is surrouded by the individual exceptions a few guys thought of when they were writing it. They blended truth with their own ideas, thus we get the sexist stuff, the racist stuff, and the stupid stuff.

 

I think that holds true for all religious texts. You have to look outside the words for the truth.

[Guest J*ingus]

My reply to anyone who preaches to me: I refuse to let any human have control over my relationship with any higher power.

[Guest GenerationNever]

Who cares about Christianity? I'm busy learning about Daoism.

[Guest DragonflyKid]

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Jingus Posted on Jul 14 2002, 07:35 PM

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My reply to anyone who preaches to me: I refuse to let any human have control over my relationship with any higher power.

 

I remember that angle with the Undertaker where Vince McMahon turned out to be the higher power.

 

 

If there is a God I say fuck him for not thinking enough of me to communicate with me directly and personally instead of through some old, dusty pieces of literature.

[Guest RetroRob215]

I have been bitching about Chritianity's loopholes for so long that I don't even feel like going into it all over again. Religion is a BAD THING. I'll just stop there because otherwise I'll get all worked up.

[Guest chirs3]

I have met a few people of the "Because God made it that way", and it gets really annoying.

 

Personally, I'm undecided as to whether there is a God or not. But if I decide that there is one, I don't think I'll adhere to any specific religion. They're waaaaay to strict (you must believe this, and this, and that).

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

I actually find the contradictions, loopholes, etc. in Christian religion to be the most appealing thing about it. Compared to say, Islam, Christianity leaves much more to interpret on your own and has less direct "orders" about how to lead your life (other than fringe elements such as Mormon, Jehovah's Witness, etc.). This is also a reason, I think, that so many different branches of Christianity exist. Of course, Eastern religions such as budhism leave even more open IMO, so I find them even more interesting.

[Guest Shaved Bear]

The Bible is not intended as a literate interpretation of how we should live our lives, yet it is a book of stories that outline the basic ideals (love your neighbor etc.) of how we should live our lives, priests cant understand this

[Guest Cancer Marney]

Eh. Apparently neither of you has read Leviticus...

[Guest J*ingus]

I have. The rules about cleanliness are rather longwinded, especially the ones relating to ejaculation and menstruation.

[Guest LJSexay]

Care to name some of those rules for us?

[Guest Still Fly]

You're ruining it for all those poor, pathetic people who have nothing else or better to beleive in!

 

Damn.

[Guest NoCalMike]

Well since The Bible and Christianity are left open to interpretation, I guess there is no WRONG or RIGHT way to look at the Bible. I know for a fact that I don't understand when individuals, think they know EXACTLY what everything in the bible means. Or the fact that they pick and choose what stories are literal, and what things are metaphorical. The existence of (a)god is my only huge question in life left to find out, however it has been a good five or so years since I totally gave up on any and every form of organized religion.

[Guest EricMM]

Yes, that's very true. I DON'T read leviticus. I try NOT to read leviticus. As if any of the rules of the First Testiment besides The Big 10 should apply to any christians...

 

Theoretically Jesus created a new covenant yadda yadda. SO the old rules don't even apply as much. And I think most of those rules were created by BC republicans Thus they is dumb

[Guest J*ingus]

Care to name some of those rules for us?

Certainly. Try not to laugh.

 

Leviticus, chapter 15, pertaining to jizz and periods:

 

1   And the LORD spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying,

2   Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When any man hath a running issue out of his flesh, because of his issue he is unclean.

3   And this shall be his uncleanness in his issue: whether his flesh run with his issue, or his flesh be stopped from his issue, it is his uncleanness.

4   Every bed, whereon he lieth that hath the issue, is unclean: and every thing, whereon he sitteth, shall be unclean.

5   And whosoever toucheth his bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even.

6   And he that sitteth on any thing whereon he sat that hath the issue shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even.

7   And he that toucheth the flesh of him that hath the issue shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even.

8   And if he that hath the issue spit upon him that is clean; then he shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even.

9   And what saddle soever he rideth upon that hath the issue shall be unclean.

10   And whosoever toucheth any thing that was under him shall be unclean until the even: and he that beareth any of those things shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even.

11   And whomsoever he toucheth that hath the issue, and hath not rinsed his hands in water, he shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even.

12   And the vessel of earth, that he toucheth which hath the issue, shall be broken: and every vessel of wood shall be rinsed in water.

13   And when he that hath an issue is cleansed of his issue; then he shall number to himself seven days for his cleansing, and wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in running water, and shall be clean.

14   And on the eighth day he shall take to him two turtledoves, or two young pigeons, and come before the LORD unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and give them unto the priest:

15   And the priest shall offer them, the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for him before the LORD for his issue.

16   And if any man's seed of copulation go out from him, then he shall wash all his flesh in water, and be unclean until the even.

17   And every garment, and every skin, whereon is the seed of copulation, shall be washed with water, and be unclean until the even.

18   The woman also with whom man shall lie with seed of copulation, they shall both bathe themselves in water, and be unclean until the even.

19   And if a woman have an issue, and her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even.

20   And every thing that she lieth upon in her separation shall be unclean: every thing also that she sitteth upon shall be unclean.

21   And whosoever toucheth her bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even.

22   And whosoever toucheth any thing that she sat upon shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even.

23   And if it be on her bed, or on any thing whereon she sitteth, when he toucheth it, he shall be unclean until the even.

24   And if any man lie with her at all, and her flowers be upon him, he shall be unclean seven days; and all the bed whereon he lieth shall be unclean.

25   And if a woman have an issue of her blood many days out of the time of her separation, or if it run beyond the time of her separation; all the days of the issue of her uncleanness shall be as the days of her separation: she shall be unclean.

26   Every bed whereon she lieth all the days of her issue shall be unto her as the bed of her separation: and whatsoever she sitteth upon shall be unclean, as the uncleanness of her separation.

27   And whosoever toucheth those things shall be unclean, and shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even.

28   But if she be cleansed of her issue, then she shall number to herself seven days, and after that she shall be clean.

29   And on the eighth day she shall take unto her two turtles, or two young pigeons, and bring them unto the priest, to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.

30   And the priest shall offer the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for her before the LORD for the issue of her uncleanness.

31   Thus shall ye separate the children of Israel from their uncleanness; that they die not in their uncleanness, when they defile my tabernacle that is among them.

32   This is the law of him that hath an issue, and of him whose seed goeth from him, and is defiled therewith;

33   And of her that is sick of her flowers, and of him that hath an issue, of the man, and of the woman, and of him that lieth with her that is unclean.

 

 

Ah, Leviticus: the place where the Bible states that completely normal involuntary biological functions are, in fact, filthy sinning. And do keep in mind that this is the same book which refers to homosexuality as an "abomination", which is the passage which many conservative moralists of the Dr. Laura mode frequently quote. Another "abomination" according to Leviticus is eating any seafood which is not a scaly fish. And the strict interpretationalists who preach biblical infallibility wonder why I consider them to be ignorant hypocritical fools.

[Guest jimmy no nose]

I really don't like the whole religion debate. Many people feel that they need some reassurance that there is a higher power and joining an organized religion helps that. I don't think that others should question that person's faith or religion. If they don't want to believe any of it. that's fine, but it's not necessary to point out every little problem with it(I guess there are some big problems here). I don't belong to any religion, but if I were to chose one it would probably be Christianity because it allows more freedom than other religions.

[Guest gthureson]

The current version of the Christian bible is also the product of internal politics of the Roman Catholic Church. The Council of Nicea and other early meetings decided what went into the bible and what got left out, and also settled theological issues in ways that have probably lead to many of the later problems.

 

The Book of Timothy (one of the Dead Sea Scrolls) is a good example. Its actually a rather nice book. Timothy tends to go on about love, and the love shared by Jesus and Mary Magdalene, and more or less states that Christ got some while he was one earth. My Lord, we can't have that going in the Bible, it might give people the wrong idea about our church.

 

 

One of my basic arguments on Christianity is that the deification of Christ was one of the biggest mistakes they made. I do not think there is one place in the Gospels where Christ is willing to accept the claim made by others that he is the Messiah or the Son of God. He is just a man.

 

Now, if you do not raise him to Godhood, what you have is the example of a human being, something the rest of your population can aspire to and live up to.

 

But no, they make him Jehovah Incarnate on earth, thereby leading to the Christian basic belief that you don't stand a chance of measuring up. But you can get a get out of jail free card by confessing and getting baptized.

 

 

Just my opinion though.

[Guest DrTom]

"they don't want to believe any of it. that's fine, but it's not necessary to point out every little problem with it..."

 

Agreed. As an atheist, I have a live-and-let-live philosophy when it comes to religious folks (usually Christians, since I know so many more of them than any other sect). I won't try to convert them as long as they don't try and convert me. Of course, if I run into one of the preachy types, then all bets are off and I enjoy pointing out the contradictions and loopholes in their faith. Some folks just can't leave well enough alone.

[Guest jimmy no nose]

"they don't want to believe any of it. that's fine, but it's not necessary to point out every little problem with it..."

 

Agreed. As an atheist, I have a live-and-let-live philosophy when it comes to religious folks (usually Christians, since I know so many more of them than any other sect). I won't try to convert them as long as they don't try and convert me. Of course, if I run into one of the preachy types, then all bets are off and I enjoy pointing out the contradictions and loopholes in their faith. Some folks just can't leave well enough alone.

Well, if they want to try and force their religion on you and tell you what's wrong with your beliefs then I think it's OK if you come back at them with what's wrong with their beliefs. Luckily I've never encountered any of this.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Both Christians and Atheist are guilty of telling the other side they are wrong, and what idiots they are for believing or not believing in God.

 

I don't understand why people are atheist, just like I'm sure atheist don't understand why I believe in God. But it's not my place to judge people's beliefs.

[Guest DrTom]

"Now, if you do not raise him to Godhood, what you have is the example of a human being, something the rest of your population can aspire to and live up to."

 

Christians are still told to follow Christ's example in how they live. While making Jesus a human allows people to identify with him easier, it goes against two thousand years of Christian dogma. It was enough of an effort to get a mass in the vernacular, so I wouldn't hold out hope for a sweeping change in philosophy.

[Guest SupaTaft]

I always thought that your religion should be something that your personal ethics and morals agrees with.

 

The bible is just mainly crap because its not written as just events and their implications, it is written through someone's point of view. And to base your faith on the words of someone dead for 1800 years that you never met is silly. But that is where faith comes in. You have faith that those words are true, because they sound good to you.

 

We create our own afterlife, or at least we do to some degree. Christians read the bible and it says that heaven is a beautiful wonderful place and everyone who pledged to Christ will be there. That is more or less as discriptive as it gets. So you have to put your own spin on it, just like the men who wrote the bible put their own spin on their faith and wrote it down.

 

I am a Viking by bloodline and by faith and I dig our afterlife. We battle all day long and when we are carried back into Valhalla we regenerate to fight another day. Nights are filled with eating, drinking, and having sex with beautiful women. Now to me, that is all that I need for eternity is fight, eat, drink, and screw. As long as I die with a weapon in my hand I am promised a place amongst only the most honored of warriors.

 

Make your own afterlife people. You'll be spending eternity there, make the most of it.

[Guest gthureson]

Christians are still told to follow Christ's example in how they live. While making Jesus a human allows people to identify with him easier, it goes against two thousand years of Christian dogma. It was enough of an effort to get a mass in the vernacular, so I wouldn't hold out hope for a sweeping change in philosophy.

Oh, I don't expect it to ever change. It was also a solution around the entire 'Thou Shalt Have No Gods Before Me' thing.

 

A clever way around a theological can of worms when they realized they were consistently breaking number one of the big ten.

[Guest EricMM]

Jesus WAS a man, and also god. I kind of got the feeling that nothing jesus did was completely impossible to do...

 

I mean all the miracles perhaps, but who knows, I mean someday if you pray every time the lake is choppy, someday it will calm when you pray, they just didn't speak of all the other times it didn't

 

While Jesus and God were in some ways the same, there was still a lot of humanity there.

[Guest Spicy McHaggis]

While making Jesus a human allows people to identify with him easier, it goes against two thousand years of Christian dogma.

How?

[Guest the 1inch punch]

Watch Dogma

[Guest GenerationNever]

Like I said, in regards to Christianity...

[Guest Spicy McHaggis]

Watch Dogma

This is why it's damn near impossible to have a discussion about Christianity/Catholicism. With the exception of Tom, most non-Christians on this board know absolutely dick about Christian/Catholic theology and doctrine.