Guest HartFan86 Report post Posted July 17, 2002 What would you guys rate it? I really enjoyed watching this match and the awesome wrestling and counters to it. The crowd just watched in silence (in enjoyment) cause it truly was masterpiece of wrestling. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wolverine Report post Posted July 17, 2002 I would rate it ****. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RickyChosyu Report post Posted July 17, 2002 Yeah, **** sounds about right to me, too. Very enjoyable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Crippler15 Report post Posted July 17, 2002 I was still always a little disappointed in their matches. To me they have never had a match over ****. Thats pretty disappointing for my two favorite junior wrestlers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest PlatypusFool Report post Posted July 17, 2002 Are you kidding me? I've not seen this particular match, but the match they had during the Super J Cup 95 has some of the best examples of matwork I've ever seen. So smooth and well communicated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wolverine Report post Posted July 17, 2002 "Are you kidding me? I've not seen this particular match, but the match they had during the Super J Cup 95 has some of the best examples of matwork I've ever seen. So smooth and well communicated." He is talking about the J-Cup '95 match. I doubt that he's kidding you or anyone, as while that match is solid, it's not a MOTYC or anything remotely close. I was a tad disappointed with it as well when I saw it a couple of years back. Haven't watched it since though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest PlatypusFool Report post Posted July 17, 2002 Oops confusion over dates there... Alright, the match does indeed lack a consistent story running through it like truly classic matches should have, but the work was entertaining enough to make up for that in my eyes. I rated it highly because it displayed great examples of the pure basics of wrestling, something I feel is somewhat rare these days. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wolverine Report post Posted July 18, 2002 Have you seen Ultimo Dragon vs. Shinjiro Ohtani from 8/4/96 yet? Now that right there is a classic, MOTYC. It might just be my favorite match from both of those guys. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RickyChosyu Report post Posted July 18, 2002 In regards to Liger/Ultimo: I agree that it makes up for lack of story with nearly-flawless execution, but not enough to put it above ****'s. Great work or not, a flawed match is a flawed match. And I deffinately agree with Wolverine's recomendation for Ohtani/Ultimo from 8/96. Considering how highly you rated their '95 match in your review (is 90% supposed to be ****1/2 stars?), the re-match will probably blow you away. One of the best Junior matches of the '90's, without a doubt. Totally smokes the first one, too, IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Crippler15 Report post Posted July 18, 2002 yea Liger and Ultimo is in my handful of matches I couldnt do without. In regards to Liger/Ultimo I think the work is awesome but once again the story lacks a little. I still rank it **** which means it is an excellent match, but these are my two favorite junoir wrestlers of all time and I just think there is that little extra something lacking in their matches to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wolverine Report post Posted July 18, 2002 "yea Liger and Ultimo is in my handful of matches I couldnt do without." You mean Ohtani and Ultimo, right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Crippler15 Report post Posted July 18, 2002 yea typo on my part Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest PlatypusFool Report post Posted July 18, 2002 "Have you seen Ultimo Dragon vs. Shinjiro Ohtani from 8/4/96 yet? Now that right there is a classic, MOTYC. It might just be my favorite match from both of those guys." If that's the match from the J*Crown tourny (as I say, I'm not too hot on remembering dates) then I have seen it, but I need to rewatch it before offering any sort of concrete opinion. From what I can remember it seemed pretty damn good, but not as stellar as people reckon. I shall watch again shortly and pay more attension. "is 90% supposed to be ****1/2 stars?" There's no real correlation between my percentage ratings and the traditional star system, I just use percentages so I have more different scores to use. Basically, anything over 90% is a must-see, anything over 80% is a great match and so on down the ratings until anything below 10%, which is painful to watch. I rate matches directly after watching them on how much I enjoyed the match, and try not to think about my ratings too hard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wolverine Report post Posted July 18, 2002 It's indeed the J-Crown match, and it's indeed quite stellar. This viewer would give it ****1/2. I don't think it's as good as Rey-Eddy from Havoc '97, but it's way up there as far as one of the best junior matches ever. I rewatched Pegasus-Sasuke this weekend and gave it ****3/4, so I guess that would be my #1, followed by Liger-Samurai 4/92, then Rey-Eddy, then Ultimo-Ohtani. I never saw the full version of Liger-Ohtani 2/97, so I can't really rate it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RickyChosyu Report post Posted July 18, 2002 It's indeed the J-Crown match, and it's indeed quite stellar. This viewer would give it ****1/2. I don't think it's as good as Rey-Eddy from Havoc '97, but it's way up there as far as one of the best junior matches ever. I rewatched Pegasus-Sasuke this weekend and gave it ****3/4, so I guess that would be my #1, followed by Liger-Samurai 4/92, then Rey-Eddy, then Ultimo-Ohtani. I never saw the full version of Liger-Ohtani 2/97, so I can't really rate it. I would say ****1/2 is a good rating. Personally, I prefer it over Sasuke/Pegasus, which I would also give ****1/2 stars, but like I've said before, that may just be becaues I'm a huge Ohtani mark. Having not seen Rey/Eddy, and also not having seen Liger/Ohtani, I would probably rank my favorites as Ohtani/Ultimo, Sasuke/Pegasus, and Liger/Samy. The afformentioned Rey/Eddy and Liger/Ohtani matches are deffinately on my "need to see" list, along with the '94 Jr. tag league. On a some-what related note, is BOTSJ '97 worth getting in full? I've seen Koji/Samy clipped and it wowed me with a few spots, but general opinion (aside from Meltzer) seems to be that it's over-rated. Thoughts? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wolverine Report post Posted July 18, 2002 "On a some-what related note, is BOTSJ '97 worth getting in full? I've seen Koji/Samy clipped and it wowed me with a few spots, but general opinion (aside from Meltzer) seems to be that it's over-rated. Thoughts?" Really sketchy in most aspects, lack of selling and poor psych. Really stiff though, with some crazy spots. ***1/2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest BionicRedneck Report post Posted July 18, 2002 "On a some-what related note, is BOTSJ '97 worth getting in full? I've seen Koji/Samy clipped and it wowed me with a few spots, but general opinion (aside from Meltzer) seems to be that it's over-rated. Thoughts?" I really love this fuckin match. Its great fun. id say ****1/2, but then i don't care about selling or Psych as much as a lot of others. The BOSJ 97 comm tape doesn't have the final on tho. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest NoSelfWorth Report post Posted July 20, 2002 I've enjoyed all three of their matches i've seen, those being the one from the Jan 4th '93 Dome show, the Super J Cup '95 match and the 2 minute one from the J*Crown '96. I think they may have had one at the Jan '97 Dome show, but i'm not sure. Granted these matches may not have been classics, but they were all solidly wrestled, with good psychology and no blown spots. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RickyChosyu Report post Posted July 20, 2002 I've enjoyed all three of their matches i've seen, those being the one from the Jan 4th '93 Dome show, the Super J Cup '95 match and the 2 minute one from the J*Crown '96. I think they may have had one at the Jan '97 Dome show, but i'm not sure. Granted these matches may not have been classics, but they were all solidly wrestled, with good psychology and no blown spots. The '96 one, while accomplishing what they set out to do (that being, lay out the groundwork for the semi-final Ohtani/Ultimo), is just ridiculously short. The crammed a good amount of stuff in there, but it's really a "blink and you miss it" match. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
