Guest Goodear Report post Posted July 19, 2002 You know folks, the more I see of Chris Jericho, the more it becomes apparent to me that he really shouldn't be a top guy in the federation. Yeah, he's an okay wrestler and would make a fine I-C champion, but he just doesn't have the tools to be the guy who picks a company up on his back and carries Pay-Per-Veiws. I like making lists, so here's another one. 1) He's sloppy as all hell. I can't have been the only one who saw last nights match with John Cena and saw the worst display of ring positioning ever. When Jericho went for that lionsault, Cena had to slide himself almost an entire body length into position just so Jericho would be anywhere near him. It was a horrible sequence, just because Jericho didn't bother to see where Cena actually was before he started the 'sault. 2) His offence is too weak for an effective beating. Okay, Jericho is going to be aggressive on Cena, how does he show it? With a boston crab and a couple of chairshots. And people wonder why Jericho isn't booked as a monster heel. It's because he can't beat people up believably unless he has a chair to swing. No part of his offense looks devastating in the slightest. 3) His interviews have disintegrated into whiney little nothings that aren't memorable or even good. He's no longer funny and his delivery has nothing behind it. He's basically gotten dull. Thats all I have to say. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Austin3164life Report post Posted July 19, 2002 I think that Chris Jericho can be a good world champion if given a chance and a better feud without someone named McMahon/Helmsly. However, I share your sentiments on his wrestling skills. I do feel he is vastly overrated, because his offense does not attract me, unless he's in the ring with a formidable opponent. I do think Chris Jericho is too good for the IC Title, however I don't think he can carry a company on his back (at least without the help of another big star). That is all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shaved Bear Report post Posted July 19, 2002 should HHH be a top tier guy, should Brock be leading into being a top tier guy...of course not, but thats how things work Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest chirs3 Report post Posted July 19, 2002 I think Jericho can be a top guy, but he hasn't been doing too well recently. I thought he was great as champion up until after The Rumble, and that's when he started to degenerate. He's got the skills, he just doesn't use them, or doesn't get a chance to. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest BoboBrazil Report post Posted July 19, 2002 Ratings stayed where they were at with him as champion, so he can be a main eventer. Ratings dropped like a bomb and attendace dropped huge once Hulk Hogan, Kevin Nash, and Scott Hall were brought in and Hogan was made champion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest FeArHaVoC Report post Posted July 19, 2002 1) He's sloppy as all hell. I can't have been the only one who saw last nights match with John Cena and saw the worst display of ring positioning ever. When Jericho went for that lionsault, Cena had to slide himself almost an entire body length into position just so Jericho would be anywhere near him. It was a horrible sequence, just because Jericho didn't bother to see where Cena actually was before he started the 'sault. That looked more like Cena's fault then Jericho's. You can even see Jericho say something to him and then Cena moved over. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vern Gagne Report post Posted July 19, 2002 It's probably hard for Jericho to stay motivated considering all the crap he's goes through. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brian Report post Posted July 19, 2002 "His offence is too weak for an effective beating. Okay, Jericho is going to be aggressive on Cena, how does he show it? With a boston crab and a couple of chairshots. And people wonder why Jericho isn't booked as a monster heel. It's because he can't beat people up believably unless he has a chair to swing. No part of his offense looks devastating in the slightest." Well, he doesn't have the powerbomb into a backbreaker or the double powerbomb anymore, plus the Walls doesn't look anywhere near as credbile as it used to. Are there any other important moves I'm forgetting? "His interviews have disintegrated into whiney little nothings that aren't memorable or even good. He's no longer funny and his delivery has nothing behind it. He's basically gotten dull." That's usually what gets people over as faces in the first place. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Spicy McHaggis Report post Posted July 19, 2002 And people wonder why Jericho isn't booked as a monster heel. That's because he's NOT a monster heel. He's a cheat-to-win, DQ-yourself-when-in-trouble heel and should be booked as such. His interviews have disintegrated into whiney little nothings that aren't memorable or even good. He's no longer funny and his delivery has nothing behind it. He's basically gotten dull. I disagree completely. In fact, Jericho's the ONLY one to get 'asshole' chants instead of 'What?' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest NazMistry Report post Posted July 19, 2002 What I'm about to type will seem supporting of Vince's big man fetish but believe me I only agree in Jericho's case. Jericho is too small to ba an effective Heel Champion. There I said it. WWE fans have been bred on Heels like Triple H. Kurt Angle while not as large as HHH, is far larger and wider than Jericho and thus believable when throwing faces like The Rock about. I know this is a very out dated approach but it's true. If Jericho played an underdog face, then he would be over big time in my opinion in a 1996 HBK way. But as Heel, he doesn't have the physical look to dominate. And it saddens me to say that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest chirs3 Report post Posted July 19, 2002 I miss underdog face Jericho... I liked him as heel champ, but still... I've got a clip of him "winning" the WWF Title from Triple H, and man, the pop he gets is huge. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MarvinisaLunatic Report post Posted July 19, 2002 Didn't bischoff say that he didn't think that Jericho would ever be a main eventer (or something like that) right before/after Jericho signed with the WWE? Hmm..well, he was a main eventer, but not a successful main eventer... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest FeArHaVoC Report post Posted July 19, 2002 A little off the Topic, but go back and listen to Jericho's promo the night he debuted and just imagine if he debuted in the company today. Everyone word he spoke then would be so true now. Everything from PPV buy rates dropping, people changing the channel, Ratings at a all time low. (Well, their not at a all time low, but you know) It's almost scary. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shaved Bear Report post Posted July 19, 2002 wasnt Jericho supposedly getting huge pops on SD! only to hav them cut out Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Big Poppa Popick Report post Posted July 19, 2002 It's called bad booking, egos, selfishness January 7th, 2002 Remember when Trips cut that great promo saying that he was going to be at WM, but would Jericho...could Jericho last? That was great, and gave Jericho a direction, but then the booking flopped and he wound up cleaning up dog poop...instead of focusing on the main question... Could this arrogant cocky man actually hold onto the belt until wrestlemania...think about it...EVERYONE assumed after J's title win he would not be champ at WM...that shouldve been a big deal, it was a long reign...but what was the angle Steph/HHH like chris3 says: When Jericho beat Trips as the underdog face...the crowd goes apeshit. You can clearly see two big ass guys jumping up and down and hugging each other and people yelling back as he wins... but what happened? dusty finish... Jericho's credible enough to be ME, good enough to be ME, and should be ME over the talentless hosses (Undertaker is not included) the WWe currently has. It's just, he doesnt jerk off a mcmahon on a regular basis... And if anyone doesnt think J should get the nod, bring your facts...and Ill bring mine. *lays down the glove* I've had enough Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted July 19, 2002 On Jerichos Wrestling Skills: He brings Hogan to his best matches. Something that HHH and Angle and Rock can't do.. On Jerichos Drawing Abilities: I coulda sworn that snobbish fella in the hog pen matches wouldn't draw a dime. And how about that Long Blond Haired guy from texas...Stunning somethin, nope, he was goin nowhere fast... Bluechipper? Oh man, just look at him, he is nothin. See, what I am getting at is *with the proper push* almost anyone can get over. The Wwf hasn't even come close to building Jericho into a legitimate main eventer. He gets brought up for a ME feud and gets dropped further down the card after it. So what does that say to the fans? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheyCallMeMark Report post Posted July 19, 2002 Jericho is probably the best storyteller in the WWE right now besides Benoit. His bumping ability is great and as evidenced last night with Cena even when he doesn't give a shit and two pence about the match he is about to partake in he still makes his opponent look like a million bucks. But honestly, how hard to you expect him to work? He's been booked to look like Cena's BITCH in the ring and out of the ring. A complete rookie. Being buried isn't fun. Just imagine you were working at the movie theatre and you'd waded your way up the ranks to one fo the people who plays the film in the booths. You get to watch movies, jobs not to hard... Then your asked to go clean up the bathroom because some kids really did a deed in there. Now, you've been with this theatre for a long time and worked hard to get to your spot, sitting there with the film reel and now for no apparent reason you're being dropped down to doing a really nasty job. Just how freaking hard are you going to work? It's been that for Jericho for almost a year now. In fact, at one point he was actually forced to clean shit up if I remember right. If I was him I wouldn't exactly be going 100% in the ring for WWE either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest saturnmark4life Report post Posted July 19, 2002 well, i admit i didn't think jericho was anywhere near ready for the top spot until they gave him the top spot, when in my eyes he improved dramatically and became one of my favourite wwe guys to watch. And hooray for that. Course then we didn't have hhh to worry about. (sorry i had to bring him into it but DAMMIT) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest raz0rsedge Report post Posted July 19, 2002 Jericho is a talented heel and a talented worker. Just because the ropes were loose at SummerSlam 2001 and he got a concussion from smacking the back of his head on the arena floor doesn't mean that he is a sloppy worker. Some things you just need to let go... The only thing Jericho has working against him is piss-poor booking, which is not his fault. The WWE has treated like him crap ever since WrestleMania. He did big business and had great matches with Rocky, and I hope that he gets the opportunity to main event again some day...just not with HHH. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Goodear Report post Posted July 19, 2002 1) He's sloppy as all hell. I can't have been the only one who saw last nights match with John Cena and saw the worst display of ring positioning ever. When Jericho went for that lionsault, Cena had to slide himself almost an entire body length into position just so Jericho would be anywhere near him. It was a horrible sequence, just because Jericho didn't bother to see where Cena actually was before he started the 'sault. That looked more like Cena's fault then Jericho's. You can even see Jericho say something to him and then Cena moved over. Uhm, how do you figure? John's job should be to lay there and have Jericho launch himself in his general direction. It's Jericho's responcibilty to aim for him. For example, if Val Venis goes to the top rope for a money shot when he doesn't have Chuck in the proper position for it, it's really Val's fault. Because it's Val job to put Chuck there if he wants to use that move. This is even more true for the lionsault, considering it can be hit from a whole lot more angles than a top rope splash. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Big McLargeHuge Report post Posted July 19, 2002 Go back and watch. Cena was in an awkward diagonal position. I thought it was neat really, as it looked genuine in terms of storytelling. If they'd just let him use the Liontamer, and have people tap to it, then there'd be no problem. Establish it as a devastating submission hold. I hate that on Tough Enough when Kenny asked him why he didn't use the old Liontamer, his explanation was completely cut out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest eiker_ir Report post Posted July 19, 2002 If they'd just let him use the Liontamer, and have people tap to it, then there'd be no problem. Establish it as a devastating submission hold. I hate that on Tough Enough when Kenny asked him why he didn't use the old Liontamer, his explanation was completely cut out. yeah he should use the liontamer, i've been recently watching some of his matches from WCW when he was cruiserweight champion, and he won almost every match with that move, he still was a heel and cheated and all but at least he had a credible and treathing finisher....... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest mach7 Report post Posted July 19, 2002 He's sloppy as all hell. His offence is too weak for an effective beating. He's basically gotten dull. Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner! Sounds like he's suffering from late 90's Bret Hart syndrome. Hopefully he gets "screwed" in November and leaves for NWA/TNA so I don't have to look at him ever... eeeever, again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Report post Posted July 19, 2002 This is another one of those threads that I pretty much skipped just to reply. Jericho is only not a top guy because the WWE hasn't put him there. That's your truth. Someone could have (and I'm sure did) say the same thing about "Blue Chip" Rock...and The Ringmaster Steve Austin. Hell...Bischof fired Austin because he wasn't marketable. People eat what they are fed. HHH sucks right now...BIG TIME. But is he a top guy? Yep. Taker sucks...top guy Hogan sucks...top guy. So don't tell me Jericho can't be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest humongous2002 Report post Posted July 20, 2002 I persoanally think Jericho could be a main eventer with the right push, I've seen people less talented and less charismatic than him become main eventers and are still loved by the fans. There was a guy a couple of years ago that became the WWF champ while he was as over as ESSA Rios or the Bossman but he eventually got over, even though it took retiring Foley, Test, the McMahon clan, a win at Wrestlemania, and the entire WWF roster to get this guy over and it finally paid off,I almost forgot banging the bosses daughter will make you an instant main eventer in the WWE too.Just give Y2J the proper push and he'll be able to carry the ball. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brian Report post Posted July 20, 2002 I'd actually like to hear what Mach actually thinks is so bad about Jericho. I'd have to totally agree with Bps in this instant. Jericho's never been made to look like a top guy except maybe once, at No Mercy 2001. Once again, if you want to see Jericho be convincing with his moveset, you could bring back the double powerbomb, the double underhook into a backbreaker, the real version of the liontamer. Well, if he ever had anyone tap, he's probably be much more convincing. Or if they rode the inverted russian leg sweep and actually let it play out, it would look legitimate finisher. Does anything Hogan does look legitimate? Does anything Triple H does look legitimate? Yet, the way it's portrayed is credible, and people go down to it. That doesn't happen for Jericho. I haven't really seen the sloppy part of Jericho and didn't mind the Cena thing because in the heat of the match, as Jericho has never beaten this guy, he wants to pull off a quick and convincing win and overlooked that, just as he overlooked that Cena hadn't been put down long enough. Like I said earlier, you get too innovative on the mic and chances are you start getting cheered. Considering they already have to edit out his pops, unless they want to pull off a turn, they're not going to let him do that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest El Psycho Diablo Report post Posted July 20, 2002 What I find funny.. We all talk about how they should elevate new people..and they start to..(Cena)..but when he's fighting Angle or Jericho..it's whining about "Not over THOSE GUYS!". I'm sure if it was HHH or Undertaker in the same roles, nobody would be screaming for blood like they are. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest the pinjockey Report post Posted July 20, 2002 I don't understand why they feel the need to push completely new guys in every one of their new eras. Why do they need to push the unover green as grass Brock and Cena right away when they can push Jericho and RVD because they will be new main eventers that the fans legitimately will buy. As for going over Angle and Jericho that is meaningless because they are not high enough on the food chain where beating them means a whole lot so all it serves is to bury the loser. Angle and Jericho have been jobbed out mercilessly recently so who cares if someone beats them. And I would still be pissed if it was HHH or UT jobbing to Cena right now. He is not ready he does not look close to ready. While I do not believe in the "paying your dues" ideology I do believe that you should at least have to prove yourself as a viable character and wrestler before going over in an important angle or match. Hell at least Goldberg was built up before getting into a title feud. Brock was pushed for about a month month and a half before it became apparent that he was getting a god push and Cena starts his career wrestling Chris Jericho and Kurt Angle and having already gotten beat by Jericho but punking him out after the match, scoring a pinfall over Jericho, and forcing Jericho to get DQed because according to Cole "Jericho knew he couldn't beat him". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest El Psycho Diablo Report post Posted July 20, 2002 Face reality. Jericho right now isn't a "future main eventer". He's midcard talent enhancement until something happens. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest NoSelfWorth Report post Posted July 20, 2002 Jericho's credibility was destroyed thanks to the 'roided cock HGH, and that wailing banshee Stephanie McHooters. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
