Questions about Puroresu!

[Guest Downhome]

I'm not going to go all in depth, so I'll just flat out ask the questions...

 

1) I have only seen matches of Giant Baba from the early-mid 90's. In what time frame was he truly "great" as I hear many say? I no doubt believe he was, as many say so, thus I really want to see those days.

 

2) From my watching Puroresu, which has been for about two years now, I have realized that not many of the guys over there are "built like stone" in terms of their body style. Most look like they are in great shape, but it's just doesn't seem that they put two much focus on adding so much musscle mass. Is this because they wish to keep their speed, agility, etc... instead of to "look better"? If so, HHH could learn a lot from them.

 

3) What are the dimminsions of the Puroresu rings in relation to those used in the USA?

 

4) I am hooked on Tiger Mask I and The Dynamite Kid and their work thoughout the early-mid 80's. It blows me away that action of THAT calibur was taking place back then, which leads me to love it that much more. Now, my question is this.What other workers from that time frame should I be checking out, if I love them so?

 

...that is it for right now, it's just some basic stuff I've had on my mind for a while!

 

Sincerely,

...Downhome...

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Those are all pretty much questions i would like answering too.

 

From the 90s Baba i've seen he wasn't great. I hear he was good a decade before or something.

[Guest Downhome]

Those are all pretty much questions i would like answering too.

 

From the 90s Baba i've seen he wasn't great. I hear he was good a decade before or something.

As far as Baba goes, I've always looked at him as a type of Hogan. He is way past his prime (in what I've seen him in), but he is such a legend there that he STILL gets a huge ovation. Actually, from what I've seen he's about 100X's worse than hogan, lol. I would love to see some tapes and whatnot of when he could really "go" though. I'm all about the history of the sport, as I'm always wanting to see where guys came from, and how they came to be what they are now (yes, I know Baba passed away, I'm just speaking in general).

 

Beware of the Baba BUTT, as it will own you!

[Guest BionicRedneck]

I think the reason Baba was over so much was because he was tall, and tall people are quite hard to come by in Japan. I don't know if he was ever over because of his wrestling skill.

[Guest J*ingus]

1. I've got matches with Baba going back to the 70's, and I don't know if he ever had a "prime". He was basically a Japanese version of Andre, with his size and charisma being really his only positive attributes. He only got slower as he got old.

 

2. No, the Japanese don't put much stock into freakishly sculpted musculature. I remember Tom Zenk talking about when he toured over there, he heard a few of the workers sniggeringly refer to him as "Dynamite Kid-o", in reference to his roided body.

 

3. Depends on the promotion, they're all different, though mostly a little smaller than American rings, especially the huge WW(F)E rings, which are the biggest in the world. Toryumon T2P uses a ring with six sides, for example.

 

4. At that time nobody even came close to them. But for that period, Kuniyaki Kobayashi and Tatsumi Fujinami were probably the best. Bret Hart and Davey Boy Smith were kicking around then, too.

[Guest Jubuki]

Baba wasn't great. He was just willing to go along with someone else to have good matches, and he could carry guys who were slugs. He'll never be thought of as a 'lost' worker, but he was still, by many reports, having entertaining matches into the 90's. Try getting your hands on the 11/30/93 Misawa/Kobashi vs. Hansen/Baba match if you can. The Baba/Kobashi vs. Misawa/Kawada match from 11/92 isn't always bad with Baba in there, either.

[Guest Downhome]

The only entertainment I've even gotten out of anything with Baba in it, is pure laughter at his headbuts and week ass chops and being one of the worst at taking offense I've ever seen. So I'm just hoping there is something better than what I've seen. I do like watching him for pure laughter though, in terms of that it's great stuff.

[Guest PlatypusFool]

I bought the 1990 '30th Anniversary of Baba in Arigoto' show recently, mostly because I wanted to see and laugh at what must be a horrendously bad match...

 

Baba & Abdullah The Butcher vs. Andre The Giant & Stan Hansen

 

I haven't watched it yet, I dread to...

[Guest BionicRedneck]

A lot of his 90s work gets defended by Puro fans, but if a US worker looked as weak on offence as Baba they would get slaughtered. Mick Foley put it best in his book, when he said (somethin like):

 

"Baba is one of the great misteries of wrestling. The crowd would go nuts for him, even though most times his offence looked like it couldn't break an egg"

[Guest Downhome]

A lot of his 90s work gets defended by Puro fans, but if a US worker looked as weak on offence as Baba they would get slaughtered. Mick Foley put it best in his book, when he said (somethin like):

 

"Baba is one of the great misteries of wrestling. The crowd would go nuts for him, even though most times his offence looked like it couldn't break an egg"

I remember that quote from Foley's first book! I agree with it 100% also, just for the record. It's odd that he can be over with such soft offense, when most of Puroresu is build around being solid and stiff as hell.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

It's odd that he can be over with such soft offense, when most of Puroresu is build around being solid and stiff as hell.

 

I agree.

 

Puro is more on realistic than SE, no doubt. But Baba's offence did look incredibly weak.

 

Again, i think he was over because he was tall.

[Guest Downhome]

It's odd that he can be over with such soft offense, when most of Puroresu is build around being solid and stiff as hell.

 

I agree.

 

Puro is more on realistic than SE, no doubt. But Baba's offence did look incredibly weak.

 

Again, i think he was over because he was tall.

What I think is even more funny, is how the guy just looked so odd. His limbs looked as if they were twigs, and his torso looked as if it would be on someone with a serious condition, not on a Pro. Wrestler able to be trown around.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Yea,

 

I always wondered about that. I dunno if it was a health thing or what, but his arms were really thin.

[Guest Downhome]

Just for discussion purposes, check these out...

 

 

 

...I dunno, he just looks very odd to me, I've never seen a guy that looks like him ever before in my life.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

I really REALLY enjoy watching guys sell like motherfuckers for Baba, it's fantastic. Especially guys who you normally don't see bumping like madmen and with the fear of god in their eyes.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Hey, Baba took a powerbomb in that match! REESPEKT! I dunno, I find a certain serenity in watching Baba, he is so calm and his smile is brighter than all the flashes in the Tokyo Dome.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

That picture with Misawa is really odd. Look at the size of his head!!

[Guest Black Tiger]

I think that Baba was so over in the 1990's because All Japan was such a great promotion, and Baba was the reason it exhisted.

 

The Cobra, The Original Black Tiger (Mark Rocco), Bret Hart, and Davey Boy Smith are probably next in line after Tiger Mask and Dynamite.

 

Puroresu wrestlers don't train to look good, they train to fight. Noticed the shape Hashimoto is in, he was one of the better fighters out of New Japan in the 1990's.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Puroresu wrestlers don't train to look good

 

If youve seen Mutoh recently, thats obvious

[Guest PlatypusFool]

I think part of the reason that Baba was so over, as well as the fact he was the owner of the company and his history of beating US stars, was what he represented with his character. Giant Baba was the representation of all the honour and respect that exists in Japanese culture, he ALWAYS took time to meet fans and he ALWAYS had that cuddly smile on his face when doing it. That was why he was so over for so long, IMO.

[Guest saturnmark4life]

I wish he was my grandad.

that aside, i think he was mainly loved for his booking and stuff, yeah.

[Guest Jubuki]

You say "people defend a lot of his 90's work" as though we LIKE seeing good matches cut down to ribbons on 30-minute NTV shows in favor of Baba comedy with Kimala II, Izumida, Eigen, et al. I, for one, don't. I think I mentioned all of 2 matches when discussing his 90's work. Ask others who've watched the same TV, and they might mention, oh, 2 or 3 more I haven't seen. Maybe. How does that constitute "a lot" from someone who probably wrestled 200 or 300 times in that time frame? So please, in the future, steer clear of blanket statements. I've never seen anyone defend anything close to a majority of what he did in the last decade of his life.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

I wasn't talking about you...

 

but when there was a lot of talk about The Rock wrestling in AJPW (against Mutoh) and people were saying it would disgrace Baba's memory, there was an argument (i dunno if it was on this board) where Rock fans were sayin Rocky is a much better worker than Baba, and many Puro fans were defending Baba, sayin he was having more entertaining matches even when he was gettin old.

 

Yeah, it was a bit of a blank statement, sorry about that.

[Guest The Prodigy]

why is TAKA always in caps? and why did Muto, change from the great Muta? Wasnt he like the top guy?

[Guest Jubuki]

Uhh...

 

It didn't matter if he was Muta or wrestling as himself - he wasn't exactly doing a massive amount of jobs under one guise and not the other. He was at the top no matter what; it isn't as though the face paint fooled anyone.

 

And TAKA is in caps because he was part of a somewhat recent trend. In the 90's, some of the younger guys moved away from using kanji or katakana for their names and tried to be 'cool' by using English characters instead. Often times, though, if you were young, and you were trying to be cool, it also meant you were a heel. That isn't always the case now, but it's still the rule rather than the exception.

[Guest The Prodigy]

oh, all I know about muta is what I saw at japan supershow Two. I had a new mark out guy, then I moved out of wrestling. Then I found it again.

[Guest The Prodigy]

forgive the newbie-ness, but AJPW is dead? Did Muto go back to NJ then?

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Nope, AJPW is not dead. Infact its doing quite well for itself. Muto still works there.

[Guest The Prodigy]

I need some good muta/muto and liger pics. know a place?

[Guest PlatypusFool]

http://www26.brinkster.com/radicals/

 

Have a search there.