Greatest President Ever

[Guest thevertex]

Kennedy would have won in 1960 without Illinois. It was very close in the popular vote but he had a decent lead in the electoral college. Many people forget that not only was there no proof of anything in Illinois, but there were allegations that Nixon's campaign may have done some unsavory things in California as well.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

While its true that Lincoln did not technically free the slaves, the fact that he was able keep the union together despite the fact that the nation was falling apart is a huge accomplishment, regardless of whatever poor choices he made in terms of generals early in the conflict.  He was not seen as a legitamite pres by alot of people when he was first elected b/c the democrats had split their vote among three different candidates, and literally (err metaphorically) all hell was breaking loose as he took office.  He had no time to become accustomed to the presidency or time to think even.  He was thrust immediately into a crisis.  No other president has faced as big of a challenge, except arguably Washington and FDR.

 

And Polk?  he added Texas and some other states to the union?   Well la dee fucking dah.

No one's claiming Polk is on the level of Abraham Lincoln. During Polks presidency the US had its greatest expansion. Historians also rank Polk high on performance and accomplishment.

[Guest Marius714]

What's up with bashing GW as a "moron"? The guy is smarter than most of us. Ask his partners in the Texas Rangers? He put the least money in and got back a "HUGE" payday as a result of his management. I'd be willing to bet he knows exactly what he is saying at all times. Makes him seem more "regular" to people which we all know he is certainly not.

How many presidents ever really show their "real" selves? Not many if the advisors have anything to say about it.

 

Of course him being from Texas but spending all that time in the Northeast might warp the best of men. LOL

[Guest TheMikeSC]

What's up with bashing GW as a "moron"? The guy is smarter than most of us. Ask his partners in the Texas Rangers? He put the least money in and got back a "HUGE" payday as a result of his management. I'd be willing to bet he knows exactly what he is saying at all times. Makes him seem more "regular" to people which we all know he is certainly not.

How many presidents ever really show their "real" selves? Not many if the advisors have anything to say about it.

 

Of course him being from Texas but spending all that time in the Northeast might warp the best of men. LOL >>

 

Well, let's be honest, it's a cottage industry of the left to declare ANY Republican President to be a moron (did Reagan EVER get credit for being a highly intelligent man?).

 

Bush graduated from Harvard Business School. I could care less what his grades were (C's, I think), he graduated from the best business school in the country.

 

He's ALREADY an elite intellectually based solely on that.

                           -=Mike

 

...Who DIDN'T graduate from nearly as good a school

[Guest kkktookmybabyaway]

Didn't that fat bastard Ted Kennedy drop out of an Ivy League school?

[Guest Marius714]

Hey MikeSC,

 

I agree about "the left" bashing and Republican. Harvard business is among the best no doubt, I only consider two close and they are Wharton and Duke. Even at that Harvard has a strong argument like you say. I am curious where AlGore went? I am sure I have read but can't remember.

 

Wasn't GW considered for Baseball commish? Between that and the money he made the Rangers it seems he learned something at Harvard.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

Bush graduated from Harvard Business School. I could care less what his grades were (C's, I think), he graduated from the best business school in the country.

 

He's ALREADY an elite intellectually based solely on that.

 

 

Wow, that hits a huge nerve with me. The BEST students in the nation don't go to Harvard... the RICHEST go there... Don't even get me started on that...

 

You can be a fucking genius with a 4.2 GPA and 1600 on your SATs and get denied entry to Harvard because the candidate you are going against donated $15 million to the university... that's bullshit. It's also true.

 

The fact that Bush got C's basically confirms the fact that was the case.

[Guest TheMikeSC]

Bush graduated from Harvard Business School. I could care less what his grades were (C's, I think), he graduated from the best business school in the country.

 

He's ALREADY an elite intellectually based solely on that.

 

 

 

Wow, that hits a huge nerve with me. The BEST students in the nation don't go to Harvard... the RICHEST go there... Don't even get me started on that...>>

 

It's also always listed, in every single study mind you, as one of the 3 best business schools in the country.

 

<<You can be a fucking genius with a 4.2 GPA and 1600 on your SATs and get denied entry to Harvard because the candidate you are going against donated $15 million to the university... that's bullshit. It's also true.>>

 

Life's rough.

 

<<The fact that Bush got C's basically confirms the fact that was the case. >>

 

I assume you were magna cum laude at Yale or something?

                  -=Mike

[Guest TheMikeSC]

Hey MikeSC,

 

I agree about "the left" bashing and Republican. Harvard business is among the best no doubt, I only consider two close and they are Wharton and Duke. Even at that Harvard has a strong argument like you say. I am curious where AlGore went? I am sure I have read but can't remember. >>

 

If memory serves, Gore initially went to a seminary school and failed out, causing him to go to a very good journalism school.

 

But, let's be honest, journalism schools in the 1960's (heck, today) aren't exactly bastions of rigorous academic standards.

 

<<Wasn't GW considered for Baseball commish? Between that and the money he made the Rangers it seems he learned something at Harvard>>

 

And Bush showed how brilliant he is by not pursuing the commissionership. :-)

                -=Mike

[Guest Old Fag]

What about John Adams?! What's wrong with all you young motherfuckers?! In my day, John Adams was the pinnacle of everything everyone wanted to be, in my day. The fact you didn't put him on your newfangled poll-thing is a disgrace. When I fought in the war, I fought to protect young pups like yourselves and you don't even appreciate it! I should've just let the Japs and the Krauts and all those those other rotten foreigners take over the country and make all you filthy kids work the salt mines! If you're lucky the Japs would let you up in their super-mansions and let you lick the sweat off their yellow feet! In conclusion, Eisenhower was the true hero of that war and you sons of bitches have no respect for any of us old fags!!!!!

 

 

Fuck you all,

 

Old Fag

[Guest]

That was pretty funny. I hope this guy doesn't come back and flood the other forums though.

[Guest teke184]

This list will ignore the post-Reagan presidents because there has not been enough time after their terms to determine their worth in comparison to other presidents over the past 220+ years.

 

 

Best (based SOLELY on accomplishments in office, not other stuff):  Lincoln, because he was a great war-time president who was able to pull the US through one of its darkest hours.  Runner-up is FDR because of the way he handled WWII as well as restructuring the way the gov't to have many of the agencies that people take for granted today.

 

Worst: Warren G Harding or Ulysses S Grant.  Both were not necessarily BAD presidents in the way they handled most things, but they chose cabinet officers who defrauded the US people for millions of dollars.  I guess that Grant is worse than Harding because Grant was in office for 8 years and protected many of the defrauders, while Harding died about halfway through his term and several of the frauds were discovered after his death.

 

Most Overrated:  I'd say JFK or LBJ off the top of my head.  JFK didn't get a lot done during his term due to its brevity and several of the problems he gets credit for solving, including the Cuban Missile Crisis, were generated in whole or in part by actions he made or supported, such as the Bay of Pigs.

 

LBJ is probably more overrated for his Great Society progam, but he pushed that through Congress while trying to fight the Vietnam War on the cheap, which ended up destroying the US economy for nearly 20 years.  This doesn't even address the Gulf of Tonkin resolution, which was based off an event that was overstated at best or completely fabricated at worst.

 

Most underrated: Nixon, because all of his accomplishments are overshadowed by the word "Watergate".  Nixon ended the Vietnam War, opened relations with red China, warmed relations with the USSR, and did many other things that were destroyed by his paranoia and the actions of some of his dumber employees like G. Gordon Liddy.

 

Most forgettable:  William Henry Harrison, James Garfield, Franklin Pierce, James Buchanan, John Adams, and John Quincy Adams.  Most of these either died shortly after their election or served during quiet times.

 

Biggest mistake: Probably Rutheford B Hayes because of the way he was elected.  If the election hadn't been so dirty on both sides, the US would probably be very different today.  For one, the man who SHOULD have won the election, Sam Tilden, died before the controversy was decided in Congress.  For another, the Reconstruction governments of Florida, South Carolina, and Louisiana wouldn't have been removed for purely political reasons, which would have hopefully brought true reform to those states instead of the widespread corruption that at least ONE of these states is known for.  (I should know.  I'm from Louisiana and it's considered to be a joke politically because of some of the dirtier political stuff in the state's history.)

[Guest Mystery Eskimo]

Well over here in England, we love Bill.

[Guest LooseCannon]

Most Overrated:  I'd say JFK or LBJ off the top of my head.  JFK didn't get a lot done during his term due to its brevity and several of the problems he gets credit for solving, including the Cuban Missile Crisis, were generated in whole or in part by actions he made or supported, such as the Bay of Pigs.

 

LBJ is probably more overrated for his Great Society progam, but he pushed that through Congress while trying to fight the Vietnam War on the cheap, which ended up destroying the US economy for nearly 20 years.  This doesn't even address the Gulf of Tonkin resolution, which was based off an event that was overstated at best or completely fabricated at worst.

 

Most underrated: Nixon, because all of his accomplishments are overshadowed by the word "Watergate".  Nixon ended the Vietnam War, opened relations with red China, warmed relations with the USSR, and did many other things that were destroyed by his paranoia and the actions of some of his dumber employees like G. Gordon Liddy.

I agree entirely that JFK was probably the most overrated president.  LBJ I'm kind of lukewarm about.  

But Nixon was not underrated.

 

He ended the Vietnam conflict.  Whatever.  Anybody could have withdrawn our troops and let South Vietnam fall to communism.  He maybe deserves some marginal credit for recognizing that we were fighting a losing battle, and just cutting our losses.  But he only pulled out of vietnam after escalating the conflict including authorizing some illegal military actions in Cambodia, and long after the American public had gotten tired of the whole thing.

As far as opening relations with China and warming relations with the Soviets go, Kissinger's so called policy of detente probably only worked to prop up the soviets and extend the cold war.  Reagan had the balls to use economic warfare and to speak the truth about the Soviet system on the international stage to bring about the demise of Communism.  Nixon's friendliness allowed the Soviets to continue to hide the weaknesses in their fast crumbling economic system.  Also the Chinese proved to be adept negotiator's who got the better of Nixon in just about every exchange they had.  Nixon's policies toward China and the USSR, in short, worked to the advantage of the Soviets and the Chinese, did just about nothing for the U.S., and got Nixon a bit of praise from the liberal media establishment.

Nixon's domestic economic policy was even worse than his foreign policy.  Under Nixon, inflation began to skyrocket as unemployment increased, and interest rates soared, and singlehandedly introducing to economists the term "stagflation."  This was no doubt a result of the increased amount of regulations that resulted under Nixon's administration, and some other questionable economic decisions such as the short lived negative income tax.

 

So I'll agree with you that Nixon shouldn't be judged just based on Watergate, but it seems to me anyway, that Nixon wasn't a very good president anyway.

[Guest teke184]

The problem is that the Overrated category is pretty much Nixon alone because Hoover is the only other president who is routinely bashed for things outside of their control.

 

As for Nixon destroying the economy, I'd say that LBJ had a big hand in it between pouring money into Great Society services and letting the military expenditures in Vietnam slowly grow out of control.  Nixon may have been ultimately responsible, but LBJ screwed up the economy to the point where Nixon may have been the one to tip it over the brink

[Guest LooseCannon]

I can agree with that, but when I think of underrated presidents I think more along the lines of a Taft or an Adams.  Guys that had some decent accomplishments but were overshadowed by others (Washington/Jefferson and T Roosevelt, respectively) for one reason or another.

[Guest teke184]

Taft was a good Chief Justice after he left the White House, and his heart was in the Supreme Court all along, but he was pussywhipped into becoming president and he got on TR's bad side by not following TR's agenda.

 

Adams falls into the category of "caretaker presidents" rather than underrated, IMHO.  He did a decent job, but nothing spectacular enough to be remembered that comes to mind. (Unless you count the Alien And Sedition Act, but that's enough of a reason for me to consider him a bad president)

 

If I had to go with another underrated president besides Hoover or Nixon, I'd go with James Monroe because, IIRC, he cleaned up the mess that Madison made by goading the British into the War of 1812.

 

If I added another overrated president, I'd go with Woodrow Wilson because he screwed up the end of World War I by satisficing on the Treaty Of Versaiies, which the US didn't even sign because A.  He negotiated it himself and B. He didn't have any Republicans on the negotiating team.