Guest Black Tiger Report post Posted July 30, 2002 New Japan was the most financialy sucessful run wrestling company in the world from 1991-1997. What was it about New Japan that made them so successful? So far all I can figure is that. 1. WWF and WCW were both in hell at this point. 2. The cross promotion with M Pro, UWF-I, FMW, WAR, WCW etc made them come accross as more legitimate. 3. All Japan rarely (not never) delivered great matches from anyone not named Misawa, Kawada, Kobashi, or Taue. If anyone could add some insight it would be greatly appreciated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dangerous A Report post Posted July 30, 2002 Another factor to the successful equation of New Japan from 1991-1997 was the elevation of the 3 muskateers into money players. The three muskateers being Chono, Mutoh, and Hashimoto. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jubuki Report post Posted July 30, 2002 More legitimate compared to what? How does a promotion become "more legitimate" when it's already the biggest one in the country before 1991? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wolverine Report post Posted July 30, 2002 All Japan rarely (not never) delivered great matches from anyone not named Misawa, Kawada, Kobashi, or Taue. I don't know how you can bring up All Japan in 1991 and not say Jumbo Tsuruta, since he was better than all of the guys you mentioned. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest PlatypusFool Report post Posted July 30, 2002 Jubuki: "More legitimate compared to what? How does a promotion become "more legitimate" when it's already the biggest one in the country before 1991?" Wolverine: "I don't know how you can bring up All Japan in 1991 and not say Jumbo Tsuruta, since he was better than all of the guys you mentioned." I am left absolutely astounded by your abilities and desires to create arguments at all opportunities. Some one has asked a question in order to find out more about puroresu, something we all love. Instead of answering him, helping his understanding and everyone elses, you have picked apart his post, found things slightly wrong with it and complained. I just don't understand why... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wolverine Report post Posted July 30, 2002 Regarding my answer, I felt it was necessary to point out someone whose name was wrongfully omitted from this thread. Perhaps I should've phrased my comment differently, but nonetheless, I would be saying the same thing. Tsuruta was too much of a central character in All Japan in the early 90's, being responsible for a great deal of the company's high end matches, and not bringing him up bothered me. That's all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jubuki Report post Posted July 30, 2002 And for my end, the gates NJ drew compared to AJ at big shows are there for all to see at prowrestlinghistory.com. If one wants to learn about stuff, you can go there and learn quite a bit. Link's even in the Must Read thread. One visit, a few clicks, and you see NJ utterly killing AJ for big shows. They were the biggest, are the biggest, will continue to be the biggest. You don't get "more legitimate" when you're the biggest game in town for years. It's like insinuating that WWE isn't "legitimate" compared to ROH, or NWA-TNA. Do we really have to connect the dots for you each and every time? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest PlatypusFool Report post Posted July 31, 2002 I'm just growing tired of people picking apart posts for no reason on this board. Black Tiger asked a simple question, and for our opinions. That is what message boards are for - to give information and to share opinions, not to make people look stupid or to critique the wording of a post. My point is this; Wolverine could have simply added Jumbo to that list in a friendly manner, instead of coming off sounding accusing or patronising. Jubuki could have pointed out that NJPW was already legitimate in the eyes of the fans, rather than posing questions in what I took to be a confrontational manner. He could have then gone on to inform Black Tiger of the evidence at prowrestlinghistory.com, and helped a fellow puroresu fan, but he chose to withhold that information, thinking it below him to impart with it. Please don't pick apart this post either, I don't want to continue the debate over the precise use of the english language. I'm done ranting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jubuki Report post Posted July 31, 2002 And why is it you're so concerned about it in the first place? What's worse -- my grousing, or your meta-grousing? You should know by now what to expect. Proceed at your own risk. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not here to make friends with people I'll never meet and wouldn't like if I did. It says "puroresu" on the folder -- that's why I'm here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Tim Cooke Report post Posted July 31, 2002 Quit yer yappin'. If it wasn't for people showing me why Benoit/Sasuke wasn't the greatest match of the night on 4/16/94 or seeing why Rey v Juve from 3/16/96 is such a special match, I don't think I would still be a fan anymore. Sometimes other viewpoints and opinions should be taken seriously to try to learn something.......instead of crying about someone being mean on a message board. Tim "I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not here to make friends with people I'll never meet and wouldn't like if I did. It says "puroresu" on the folder -- that's why I'm here." - Quote of the Week Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RickyChosyu Report post Posted July 31, 2002 There really is no need for conflict on the issue. Somehow I doubt Wolverine and Jubuki make it a point to come on this board every day, find an ignorant statement, and then chastise someone for it. Instead of taking it as an insult, why not admit that you're wrong and take his advice? Instead of complaining about it, why not try to avoid stating an incorrect fact in the future? It's not a political game of cat and mouse with everyone trying to out-think and out-wit each other, it's a message board. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest J*ingus Report post Posted July 31, 2002 Jeez, everyone calm down. And for what it's worth, the gaijin are getting ignored. Steve Williams, Stan Hansen, and Terry Gordy all had their share of damn fine matches in early-mid 90's All Japan. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wolverine Report post Posted July 31, 2002 "And for what it's worth, the gaijin are getting ignored. Steve Williams, Stan Hansen, and Terry Gordy all had their share of damn fine matches in early-mid 90's All Japan." I just pimped Hansen-Kobashi yesterday, and Williams-Kawada today. Hardly ignoring the gaijins. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest PlatypusFool Report post Posted July 31, 2002 ARGH! And that's all my brain is willing to comment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest BionicRedneck Report post Posted July 31, 2002 I find this whole thread amusing for some reason. Basically, though i think everyone would be better off if somebody just answers Black Tiger's question, like it should have been done in the first place. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest PlatypusFool Report post Posted July 31, 2002 I would but I have no idea of the answer, or any opinion on it, as I've not seen anywhere near enough 1990's NJPW to know what they were doing right and wrong. Sorry. And Bionic? I share your amusement now, although I was just annoyed at first. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Black Tiger Report post Posted July 31, 2002 I'm even finding this thread amusing. mostly because Jubuki and Wolverine try to act like they're so much smarter by taking the post apart. Wolverine: how many great matches did Jumbo have in 1995? I remember his six man with Rusher Kimura in the 1995 CC tape, that must have been a MOTYC How about 1996? Jubuki: New Japan guys on Nitro in 1996, Chono in nWo in 1997 made them look pretty damn legit to me. I didn't ask why they were #1 in JAPAN. I said #1 IN THE WORLD. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest PlatypusFool Report post Posted July 31, 2002 THE PURO FOLDER EXPLODES BY GAWD! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wolverine Report post Posted July 31, 2002 Wolverine: how many great matches did Jumbo have in 1995? I remember his six man with Rusher Kimura in the 1995 CC tape, that must have been a MOTYC How about 1996? If you would READ my post, I clearly said "All Japan in 1991" and "early 90's." Did you not know that "early 90's" most likely means 1990-1992? If you do a little research, you'd know that when Jumbo contracted Hepatitis B in 1992, he took himself out of wrestling, and once he came back, was relagated to mid-card comedy, not having another serious main event since. Stop making stupid comments, and once again, WATCH THE MATCHES (from 1990-1992) if you want to see what I'm talking about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest PlatypusFool Report post Posted July 31, 2002 "If you would READ my post, I clearly said "All Japan in 1991" and "early 90's." Did you not know that "early 90's" most likely means 1990-1992?" What BT is saying is, that if you would READ his post, he was talking about the period 1991-1997, a period over which Jumbo had reletively few great matches compared to those he mentioned. "If you do a little research, you'd know that when Jumbo contracted Hepatitis B in 1992, he took himself out of wrestling, and once he came back, was relagated to mid-card comedy, not having another serious main event since." BT knows this, which is why he was sarcastically asking how many great matches jumbo has had in 1995 and 1996. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dangerous A Report post Posted July 31, 2002 Man, this is the most action I've seen in the Puro folder in months. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jubuki Report post Posted July 31, 2002 Legit? As in, 2 Legit 2 Quit? Why do you insist on using the word "legitimate" in regards to wrestling promotions? IT'S WRESTLING. These are people staging fights, for crying out loud. Where does "legitimate" factor into this? And yes, your question HAS already been answered, by me. It helps if you know how to read and follow up on the leads people give you, rather than spending your time drumming up the stale-ass "us vs. them" anti-intellectualism bit that I've NEVER SEEN BEFORE IN MY LIFE, ANYWHERE. Morons. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dangerous A Report post Posted July 31, 2002 Alrighty then. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wolverine Report post Posted July 31, 2002 What BT is saying is, that if you would READ his post, he was talking about the period 1991-1997, a period over which Jumbo had reletively few great matches compared to those he mentioned. Who gives a fuck? When Jumbo was having the best matches of their careers up to that point, you've got mention it and not act ignorant to it. Watch all of the 6-man tags from the 1991-1992 period. Watch Jumbo-Kobashi 5/24/91. Watch Jumbo-Kawada 10/24/91. Watch the RWTL 91 matches. Watch the 6/92 tag title match. Hell, just watch the matches. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest PlatypusFool Report post Posted July 31, 2002 "Who gives a fuck?" You, apparently. And thanks for pimping those matches again, we all know by now i think. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RickyChosyu Report post Posted July 31, 2002 Listen: If you feel that others are talking down to you, either develope a sense of what you're talking about (maybe using the explanations they give you?) or just don't talk to them. No need for "understanding" why they act the way they do when it comes to facts on NJPW that can be found easilly, or on someone who deserves to be mentioned among the key figuers in early ninties AJPW. It's a simple matter of accepting critisism when it's appropriate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wolverine Report post Posted July 31, 2002 "You, apparently." No, I don't. If I did, I would've never brought up Tsuruta in the first place. I don't always care about QUANTITY, I care about QUALITY. And his frame of work from that period ranks among the greatest that I've ever seen, if not the greatest. "And thanks for pimping those matches again, we all know by now i think." That you're ignorant to AJPW? Not all of us, but a few people, you know those of us who have actually seen those matches. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest BionicRedneck Report post Posted July 31, 2002 It's a simple matter of accepting critisism when it's appropriate. I agree, but to fair, i dont think it was appropriate. Why should BlackTiger be critisised for asking a question. He wanted information, that was all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
