All Japan tag match battle

[Guest Dangerous A]

Which All Japan tag team match do you think was better?

 

6/9/95-Misawa/Kobashi vs Kawada/Taue

 

or

 

 

12/6/96-Misawa/Akiyama vs Kawada

 

 

I have only had the privilege of seeing 6/9/95, but have heard that 12/6/96 is as good, if not better.

 

 

Make your arguments for these matches here.

[Guest Dangerous A]

Correction on 12/6/96

 

Misawa/Akiyama vs Kawada/Taue

[Guest wolverine]

There is no need for an argument, just watch them both (and 12/3/93 Misawa/Kobashi vs. Kawada/Taue for that matter). These are the three best men's tag matches ever, period.

[Guest Black Tiger]

6/9/95 is very historicly significant in terms of Misawa vs Kawada feud, but 12/6/96 is historicly significant in that it was the first time Taue/Kawada won the RWTL IIRC. All Japan matches are heavy in psychology from past matches so you can't really compare them unless you've seen them both.

[Guest Dangerous A]

The better question would be which one of these great matches is your favorite and why.

[Guest wolverine]

12/3/93 because of Kawada's performance.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

I just watched 6/9, 12/6, and 6/3 in the past week after getting new, perfect quality VQ copies of them (actually just finished 6/9 a few minutes ago).

 

12/6 is my choice for #1, if for nothing else than the stretch from around 18:00 on. They go back to the 12/16/88 Tenyru/Kawada v Hansen/Gordy match, they tie up the Misawa being there for Akiyama story but Akiyama not being there for Misawa when he needs him, and it is the RWTL Final.

 

Of course, you also have the 2nd pin of Misawa in a tag setting by Kawada, which would lead to his first singles pin (which we all know sucked ass).

 

6/9 is an EXCELLENT match.........top 3 of AJPW (#3 for me). But Cryboshi bugs the hell out of me at points. Especially when he does the "grab on to Misawa's leg" or "cover Misawa so the bad guys don't hurt him bullshit". Meanwhile, he gives some of the stiffest chops but doesn't cry about those.

 

At some points during the match, I almost thought that it would have been a great match if it was just Kawada/Taue v Misawa in a handicap match. Yea you wouldn't have been able to show the dickishness of Kawada/Taue, but Misawa as the man had me excited during the match with Kobashi. Without Kobashi, he could have done the same act and it could have been credible

 

12/6 is the best Pro Style men's match I have ever seen. Maybe the best pro style match I have ever seen........but I really need to watch 11/26/92 again and see if I can grasp its greatness or see if maybe it just isn't the best match of all time

 

Tim

[Guest Black Tiger]

6/9/95 because despite Kawada having sympathy for his loss in 6/3/94, he was still being a heel when he took those two cheap shot kicks on Misawa and Kobashi when they were each on the apron.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

12/3 rocks because of Kawada but has such a shitty Taue that I wish Kawada could have saved that performance of a lifetime for 10/15 and they could have had an actual finish instead of going 1 hr.

 

Tim

[Guest wolverine]

I've beaten this subject to death in the past, both here and on other boards. If you've read my posts, you know that I think 12/6/96 is the best men's match ever. However, when I think about brilliant performances, I always point to 12/3/93. I've kind of soured on 6/9/95 like you Tim. Kobashi '95 really bugs me. It's still *****, it just doesn't have the same impact like before.

 

So, in terms of quality, I'd go:

 

1. 12/6/96

2. 12/3/93

3. 6/9/95

 

But I think Toyota/Yamada vs. Kansai/Ozaki 11/26/92 beats them all.

[Guest Jubuki]

I think I've always dug the impact 6/9/95 has over just about any match, save Hokuto/Kandori. Emotionally, dramatically, it doesn't get much higher than That One Big Win. I'd disagree vehemently with some people I know who say the feud was 'over' after that match, but it has a certain amount of release to it that cannot be taken back for the next time around.

 

However, watching the '96 match again a couple of weeks ago firmed up the fact that I've switched alliances and view that match as the best men's tag match I'm going to see. I'm still not sure if it's good enough to surpass Tamura/Kohsaka as the best anything I've seen anywhere in the realm of wrestling, but it's closer than it was, say, a year ago. I also dug the holy Hell out of 6/94 like never before the last time I watched it. Kinda pushes Dream Rush and the 12/93 match to the back of the pack, now that I think about it. And Misawa/Kobashi gets shoved WAY back.

[Guest wolverine]

Tamura-Kohsaka is one of the last men's matches out there that I have to see (save for some 70's and 80's stuff). I'm not a betting kind of guy, but I'd wager that I'm going to be disappointed by it. Matches rarely live up to the hype when I watch them (the last match I saw that floored me was Aja-Toyota 11/94), and it's just hard to find that kind of SPECIAL match anymore. Hopefully this is it, but I'm not holding my breath. Then again, I loved what Yoshida was doing in early '99, and this is supposed to be far, far more reaching, so who knows what I'm going to think. Shoot style takes a while to get used to (I know some of those Takada-Maeda matches were unbearably boring the first time I saw them), and now that I think about it, so were the Takada-Albright matches (here's where it's so mind blowing--Kawada had a better match with Albright than Nobuhiko, which is scary in and of itself), and I really don't know where I'm going with this, so I'll just end it. Yeah.

[Guest Coffin Surfer]

12/3/93 is my favoriate. Everyone played their roles clearly and perfectly, and Kawada's selling is just plain surreal.

 

 

But I think 12/6/96 is the probably the best because of it's deeper and more complex story telling. It also has one of my all time fav. spots where Kawada stomps Misawa in the corner. In every other match, Misawa raise up and elbow the shit out of Kawada(most famously in the climax of 6/3/94). But this time, Misawa doesn't come back, and just lies beaten in the corner.

 

6/9/95 is also great and I do like Kobashi in the match. The expression on his face, after Kawada cheap shots Misawa is priceless. As well as the expression when Taue kicks him in his injured leg. The covering Misawa spot was bit too melodramatic but it did really make the match stand out for me.

 

Overall these are probably my three fav. All Japan Matches.

[Guest wolverine]

"The expression on his face, after Kawada cheap shots Misawa is priceless."

 

It's very, very funny. He looked like he was about to cry.

[Guest Jubuki]

Tamura/Kohsaka will take a few viewings; the other stuff can just be plunged into, and one can find something to grab hold of, even if it's insignificant once one knows the big picture.

 

Then again, there isn't much of anything like Tamura/Kohsaka to find anywhere, even in shootstyle, so it's no wonder so few dig into it.

[Guest PlatypusFool]

What is this Tamura / Kohsaka match? Who are these guys? When did it happen? In what promotion? How can I see it?

[Guest wolverine]

"What is this Tamura / Kohsaka match?"

 

Said to be the best worked shoot ever.

 

"Who are these guys?"

 

I've never seen Kohsaka, but I've seen Tamura in UWFI. Him and Volk Han are largely considered the best technical wrestlers ever.

 

"When did it happen?"

 

June 27, 1998

 

"In what promotion?"

 

RINGS

 

"How can I see it?"

 

Lynch has it, so does Lorefice. TABE has it too.

[Guest PlatypusFool]

Thank you kindly

[Guest wolverine]

Excerpt from the 8/3/98 Wrestling Observer Newsletter:

 

"Kiyoshi Tamura and Tsuyoshi Kohsaka went to a 30:00 draw. I’d been told ahead of time that this was a ***** match and I’d agree with that rating and label as the best match of 1998. This match wouldn’t get over with fans who don’t know the style, but the reason I’d say it was the best match of the year is that within its particular style (the worked shoot), it was the best match I’ve ever seen and I can’t say any other match this year would come close to that statement based on its particular style. It’s funny because some people don’t consider RINGS as a traditional style of pro wrestling, but this match is really just a more modernized and advanced version of the 70s Dory Funk Jr. vs. Jack Brisco matches than almost anything of the past two decades in that they work a believable style and don’t work a crowd at all but spend the match eyeing each other and working the match. Many people consider those matches as something of a standard for the best of traditional pro wrestling. And since the people live knew what it was they were doing, it had almost the level of intensity in the last few minutes of an overtime in an NBA playoff game. It was a class above Misawa-Kawada at the Dome even though you are talking apples vs. oranges in a comparison and the latter match had more heat particularly in the last three minutes. In RINGS, as a general rule, although this is changing because people are figuring out the pattern, the worked matches have frequent points scored to make them exciting while points [are] harder, obviously, to score in a true shoot. So since they were going so long and in an attempt to give the match credibility, they didn’t even score a point until 13:35 which under the style unless people believe it’s real is a risky attempt because under most circumstances it would come across as boring, particularly since it was almost entirely on the mat before the first point was scored. The first 12:00 were all on the mat, but it was so unbelievably great technically and Tamura’s quickness on the ground was incredible that it was great. As mentioned, this part of the match wouldn’t get over well in some environments although I believe it would have gotten over with any Japanese crowd and real hardcore U.S. crowds because I’ve recently seen similar attempts at building that weren’t half as good get over of late in Japan, the U.S. and even Mexico in their long singles stip matches. The matwork was so advanced and credible that it made Dean Malenko on the mat look like Jim Duggan. Seriously, these two, Tamura in particular, did expose just how hilarious the idea that Malenko is the best technical wrestler in the business really is, and that’s no knock on Malenko because he is great but the bar has been raised. They finally got to their feet and Tamura caught a kick from Kohsaka with his hands and took him down and went for a kneebar, but Kohsaka reversed him into a cross heel hook on the mat and Tamura grabbed the ropes for the first point. The energy expenditure from all the quick matwork was incredible and they grabbed a momentary breather, but Kohsaka scored a second point at 16:04 with an ankle lock. Tamura got an armbar for a rope escape to make it 2-1 at 18:23. Both guys were really tired standing up although it ended up adding drama to the match by the finish. Kohsaka went up 3-1 with a rope break from an armbar at 20:04. After a great standing flurry, Tamura knocked Kohsaka down and Kohsaka barely beat the ten count for a two-point knockdown tying the score. After another hot standing flurry, Kohsaka avoided the knockdown by going low for a takedown but Tamura reversed him. Tamura ended up standing hitting three straight kicks and a guillotine choke to go ahead 4-3 at 24:04. Tamura went up 5-3 with a kneebar and rope break. Both guys were exhausted by this point and I don’t think the exhaustion was as much selling as reality, but it played into the drama. Kohsaka made it 5-4 with an armbar at 26:06 and tied the score at 5-5 with a guillotine at 27:10. The intensity was tremendous with the story of two warriors fighting for the last point with three minutes left. Just before the finish, Tamura got Kohsaka in position for a choke and was working it and got it on but the bell rang basically saving Kohsaka. Easily from start to finish the best RINGS show of the year but I wouldn’t go so far as to rate [it] as the card of the year overall because UFC and even WCW have so much better top-to-bottom balance and WWF, which doesn’t have good undercard but puts on “shows” and great main events, not making any pretense of legitimacy, has so much more when it comes to storyline dimensions."