Guest LexLugerRules Report post Posted August 2, 2002 And people were complaining when Angle won the World Title the 1st time. Atleast Angle was amazingly over. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest El Psycho Diablo Report post Posted August 2, 2002 However, with Angle..they made at least some show of him 'rising through the ranks'. Lesnar just kicks the crap out of the WWE's resident boy band, wins KOTR, and soon the World Title. Angle also had charisma..which counts heavily in the WWE. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted August 2, 2002 When you get into the 'unstoppable monster' territory, you really need for the unstoppable monster to go straight to the top, if not his impact will be lessened. There are problems which arise from it, HOWEVER, the overall, long-term purpose is not to be successful with the Monster on top, it is to be successful with the person who BEATS THE MONSTER on top. They build up Lesnar to build up Angle, or Edge, or whoever is going to beat 'the next big thing'. How long did it take Yokozuna to win the title? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest El Psycho Diablo Report post Posted August 2, 2002 Yes, but..is it a great idea to have an untested, virtually heatless heel as World Champion? Especially during a time when ratings are down? There's something in the chase, oh yes.. But chases work well when people are tuning in. Nobody's going to bother flipping the channel to see Brock "The Next Big Thing" Lesnar on both shows. Even Goldberg had to wait longer than seven months to get the WCW title..and he held the US title along the way. Lesnar, who's in ring debut was in April, has none of the mystique an 'unstoppable monster' should have. He's not scary. Are we supposed to boo him because he's big and wide? Or because he beats up the Hardys? Gee, we've only seen that with every monster heel for the last two or so years. It has no impact. Even beating The Rock won't..because all of us..(even marks) know it'll happen. Lesnar's been given to, and given to, and given to..and he still has little to no reaction. Why'd they put him on SD? Canned Heat. Want to bet? Does anyone really care who beats Lesnar? Not really. Will people tune in to see Edge beat him, or even Angle? Hardly. Lesnar is nothing more than an overpushed goofball. He's got NOTHING an Undisputed Champion should have. Oh, he's got "The Look"..but so does RVD, Kurt Angle..etc. He dosen't have any particularly great in-ring moves..(sadistically methodical, my ass). He's slow and boring. Just like every other big man they've tried to push. Only UT and Kane really worked. Why? They had characters. They made people sit up and take notice. With Brock..it's more "Oh, him again. Who'll he kill this week?" The WWE has a proven track record of blowing it when they push the big-guy-with-the-look. Either they're too stupid, or too loving (*coughRosscough*) of them to take notice. This 'try something new' attitude is just going to wind up kicking them in the ass. Why? "Trying something new" dosen't mean pushing Trips, Lesnar, Bubba, Bradshaw, and Big Show. All people who don't get much of a reaction, never have, or people just despise. I wonder if they've ever tried asking actual wrestling fans what they want, instead of pushing the "Next Big Thing". I think they take that phrase a little too literally. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest creativename Report post Posted August 2, 2002 Anywho, it has been my viewing experience that Olympic Wrestlers have very poor stamina and get blown up pretty quickly (case in point, Mark Coleman) Where did you see Mark Coleman get blown up? I would be shocked to find out an olympic calibre wrestler/shoot fighting champion had poor stamina in the ring. Amateur wrestlers have the most intensive endurance training regimes around. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vern Gagne Report post Posted August 2, 2002 When will the WWE figure out that Lesnar does not play the monster heel welll. Being a monster doesn't mean you can play one well. Hearing Lesnar speak on the radio out of character he's fine, but when did a "wrestling promo" he was terrible. Let Lesnar be himself, the monster heel grunting cliched promo isn't getting him over, it really can't hurt to try it. Following Lesnar since his days at Minnesota, I was really rooting for him, but it so far hasn't worked out well. He's very green inside the ring and on the mic, but the WWE pushed him way too soon. What will end up happening is when the title reign flops, Lesnar will get the blame, when it should be the WWE for giving someone who's not ready for the World title. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Goodear Report post Posted August 2, 2002 I hate all developmental talents just under principle alone, forget about the 'lean green sports entertainment machine' that they all are, they were brought up under a system which prefers look over ability, style over substance, postion over passion, and the like. -I like the 'killer' gimmick, which is not necessarily the 'monster heel gimmick', but it is one of dominance nonetheless. Lesnar is not a killer, however. Benoit, if in Lesnars uber-push position, would be a killer. You hate all developmental talents on principle? ARE YOU HIGH? The developmental territories provide WWE with talent for the future that they don't have to steal from other, smaller promotions (possibly killing them). Thats a good thing. It provides a place where you don't have to watch guys like Rock mature form their initial phase of suck. That's another good thing. Kurt Angle was a developmental talent. Good thing! And stop trying to say people in the developmental leagues don't try hard and have a passion for the business. That's ridiculous and insulting, they put in the same amount of work everyone else does, except they get to do it with Jim Cornette booking and with WWE actually paying them. That's better than working for some scumbag in a crap ring in some gym in front of 25 people. It just is. Oh yeah, Benoit would be awesome in the killer role. You know because Benoit would bring the personality to the role that Lesnar is sorely lacking... oh wait... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted August 2, 2002 Do you know WHY Brock Lesnar was hired? Was it his passion? Was it is determination? What it his years and years and years of hard work in the indys trying to get a shot with the big boys? Or was his pedigree? I think that 2000 NCAA championship had SOMETHING to do with it, don't you?... How about Randy Orton? He got picked cause of his innovative moves and his heart... No, no he didn't. Coulda sworn he got picked because of his name. And that is the Wwf developmental system. They pick guys with potential and pedigree. It's the Vince Russo system of wrestling; cept they aren't actors...But they still PRETEND to be wrestlers. They are sport entertainers. Trained in the pitiful Wwf style. Meanwhile, you got guys bustin their asses in the independant scene, REAL WRESTLERS, who don't get shot because they don't have 'the look', or their last name isn't familiar with Titan Brass. If they are the future, then the future full of watered down hacks who can throw a mighty fine arm drag but can't work a 45 minute match, hold a crowd and tell a story. Coleman vs. Smith: Coleman gets visually winded at around the 9th minute. Amateur Wrestlers aren't trained to go an hour, a half hour, or even 15 minutes. They are trained to be powderkegs, a big blast of fire and a whole lot of sizzle afterwards. I believe, at the current rate the storyline is going, Brock Lesnar will get the heat he needs to be champion (of course, I will always contend that had he fueded with Taker he would be more over). If he brings Rock his moment of doubt, if he humbles the peoples champ, if he makes Rock BEG, then the fans will HATE him for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jobber of the Week Report post Posted August 2, 2002 Yes, but..is it a great idea to have an untested, virtually heatless heel as World Champion? Especially during a time when ratings are down? If you're going to do something risky, might as well not do it when the stakes are too high. If Vince was throwing a Heatless Wonder into the ME scene when the ratings were hovering at 7s, it'd be an even bigger loss. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Masked Heel Report post Posted August 3, 2002 Coleman vs. Smith: Coleman gets visually winded at around the 9th minute. Amateur Wrestlers aren't trained to go an hour, a half hour, or even 15 minutes. They are trained to be powderkegs, a big blast of fire and a whole lot of sizzle afterwards. now granted i've never wrestled a professional match but i know quite a bit about amateur being an amateur wrestler all through high school, college and now being a coach for a high school amateur wrestlers have incredable endurance could they go an hour straight maybe not but how many pro wrestling matches have gone an hour very few and not non stop action now i didn't see smackdown but if Lesnar was winded after 2 minutes then he's in no kind of shape any more period and there for has no place in any match forsure not the main event Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Trivia247 Report post Posted August 3, 2002 always said he looks like a giant 5 year old Hopped up on Steroids, I think him speaking at least dispels the image of Him speaking High Pitch asking Paul if he can have some Pudding Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest humongous2002 Report post Posted August 3, 2002 The vanilla gorilla with the squeaky voice won't win the WWE title at Summerslam, I highly doubted because compared to Angle who had real heel heat when he won the wwf title, Brock doesn't have any heat at all. He sounds like a retard in his promos, his pro-wrestling skills haven't impress me(lifting a fat piece of turd on your shoulders like Mark Henry doesn't impress me 'cause i've seen people at my gym squatting 600lbs which is more that what Mark weights) the only thing he's got going for him is his monster like looks but that doesn't make him champion material otherwise we would be having Brakkus or Luger as champs.Brock still needs to prove himself to all the fans and so far he hasn't, he is still very green, Benoit who is a well rounded wrestler is stuck in midcard limbo b/c the writers don't know what to do with him, but this green rookie in less than 6 months he is already main eventing the second biggest ppv in WWE, this is something out of bizarro world. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest SuperTonyJaymz Report post Posted August 3, 2002 The WWE's develomental sytsem is both good and bad. Good in the fact that the WWE is investing in the future. And whether you believe it or not, the guy down there went through alot of shit to get on WWE tv. Orton, Lesner, Rico and Waterman were the WWE's Elite Four, working the house shows, dark matches, etc. for months and months, for little pay. Only lesner was paid a great deal. The workers don't get paid that much, hell, AJ Styles turned the WWE down because of the pay. And when you say guys cant wrestle, only the WWE Style, well, your kinda right and kinda not. See, they have the advantage of knowing what the WWE wants, what they can and cant do, and basically a guideline. They still have great workers. Dinsmore, Bradley, etc. great workers. Don't be insulting what you don't know. Amatuer Wrestlers are all about endurance.You know what most of wrestling practice is working on? Endurance. Run a couple miles a day. That like. Amatuer Wrestlers are bad ass, make no mistake about that. Lesner would be better if it was a slow burn push. You know, slowly but surely, let the fans pick up "Hey, this guy is a mean mother fucker, hes kicking everyones ass" and in a year or two, give him the world title. Last but not least, Cena. Cena is kick ass. Sure he has some unfunny lines, but every ones does. He also has some kick ass inovation. Remeber that promo he did before Vengeance? Were he rewinded himself? Am i the only one who loved that? I mean i was like "yadda yadda yadda, another promo" then he hits that rewind and im like "whoa...cool." Plus out of all the new recruits, he is the best worker Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RicFlairGlory Report post Posted August 3, 2002 The earliest I can remember a debut to championship were Angle and Goldberg. Both wrestled a ton of matches, won lesser titles, and went "through the ranks" to get their shot. And they were over. Hugely HUGELY fucking over. Brock umm... showed up? Maybe that "Showing up is 90% of life" quote really is true... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Hogan Made Wrestling Report post Posted August 3, 2002 The sooner Brock gets away from Heyman the better. Heyman is one of the most overrated mic guys going and draws as much "you-suck" heat as Bossman, X-Pac, or Steph. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RicFlairGlory Report post Posted August 3, 2002 The sooner Brock gets away from Heyman the better. Heyman is one of the most overrated mic guys going and draws as much "you-suck" heat as Bossman, X-Pac, or Steph. I wont go as far as to say Bossman heat, but I liked him a LOT more on commentary. When RAW goes Nitro, would anybody else mark for Heyman joining the broacast team to go back to the 3-person setup? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ph34r Tha Leaf Report post Posted August 3, 2002 Lets hope he doesn't get it.... but he will Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DJ Jeff Report post Posted August 3, 2002 When Lesnar wins the WWE Undisputed Title, I'm hoping he dumps Heyman and becomes a face. Hell, he might be more over as a face than a heel. Also, everyone seems to be assuming the worst once Lesnar wins the WWE Undisputed Title. To be honest, I'm looking forward to him winning the title. For once, we'll see someone really new win the WWE Undisputed Title. That's what I've always wanted to see, someone who's only been in the WWE for a few months win the biggest title in the WWE. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RicFlairGlory Report post Posted August 3, 2002 When Lesnar wins the WWE Undisputed Title, I'm hoping he dumps Heyman and becomes a face. Hell, he might be more over as a face than a heel. Also, everyone seems to be assuming the worst once Lesnar wins the WWE Undisputed Title. To be honest, I'm looking forward to him winning the title. For once, we'll see someone really new win the WWE Undisputed Title. That's what I've always wanted to see, someone who's only been in the WWE for a few months win the biggest title in the WWE. Might as well try him as a face. MAYBE he could capture even the tiniest bit of Goldberg-ness.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DJ Jeff Report post Posted August 3, 2002 Might as well try him as a face. MAYBE he could capture even the tiniest bit of Goldberg-ness.... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.... The last thing I want to see is the WWE turn Lesnar into the next Goldberg. Okay, he hasn't lost a match since he debuted in the WWE, but that's going to change after he wins the WWE Undisputed Title. I'm hoping that he loses at least one match during his reign as champion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted August 3, 2002 Coleman, Couture, Kerr, all olympic calibre wrestlers all get visually winded after and during matches, hell, even Angle ends up sucking wind if the match goes beyond 20 minutes. The only thing you need to do to beat a wrestler is let them wear themselves out...well, that's been my experience in watching them fight.. Cena throws a nice hiptoss...that's aboot it. His offense seems artificial to me; maybe because he is... I dunno. He is the personification of the Wwf style and it disgusts me to think that he is the future. Ditto with all the other guys. The Wwf is a style over substance company, and therefore they train their wrestlers to be able to hit a high dropkick rather than to go 45 minutes and keep the crowd. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
