top 10 all-time favorite matches

[Guest godthedog]

this seemed to be a natural progression from the "top 50 matches" thread, & it's also just a no-brainer for this thread. so list your favorites, and don't be afraid to CHALLENGE and DISCUSS (cause i hate threads where people just list stuff off & don't have any dialogue).

 

mine:

 

1) bret v. owen cage match, summerslam 94

2) hansen v. kobashi, 93

3) bret v. flair iron man match, boston garden house show 93

4) tie: flair v. steamboat, clash 6 (i think)/flair v. steamboat, wrestlewar 89

6) misawa/kobashi v. kawada/taue, 95

7) bret v. austin submission match, wrestlemania 13

8) michaels v. ramon ladder match, wrestlemania 10

9) michaels v. mankind, mindgames 96

10) benoit/jericho v. triple h/austin, raw 5/21/01

 

disclaimers: i have seen nothing from new japan; anyone who feels sorry enough for me to send any mid-90s junior stuff i'd be grateful to (hell, i'll trade some of my own stuff).

my viewing of all japan is limited to a 'best of' tape and a 'best of misawa v. kobashi' tape. i do love the whole misawa/kobashi series, but since i don't speak japanese i have no idea when each of the matches is (except the one when kobashi kicks out of the tiger driver 91). again, i'd appreciate alms from anyone who feels sorry enough for me.

my viewing of nwa/wcw is limited to a 'best of flair/steamboat' tape.

[Guest JaKyL25]

1.) Flair vs. Steamboat, WrestleWar ‘89

2.) Bret vs. Owen, WrestleMania X

3.) Flair vs. Steamboat, Clash VI

4.) Bret vs. Austin, Survivor Series ‘96

5.) HHH vs. Cactus, Rumble ‘00

6.) HBK vs. Razor, WrestleMania X

7.) Rey vs. Eddie, Havoc ‘97

8.) Bret vs. Austin, WrestleMania XIII

9.) Steamboat vs. Luger, GAB ‘89

10.) HBK vs. Mankind, IYH 10

 

I can't dispute your #2, 3, or 6, since I haven't seen them. The rest are all solid (I mean, 5 of them are on my list too), although you're the first person I've seen with the Bret/Owen cage match as the best match EVER. Any explanation as to why you like it more than the Mania match, or other matches in general, or is it that you just do?

[Guest bob_barron]

I EDITed it to show which one-

 

Not in order-

1)Bret v. Owen (WMX)

2)Flair v. Steamboat (WW89)

3)Rock v. Austin (X-7)

4)WarGames 92

5)TLC 1

6)Steamer v. Savage

7)HBK v. Razor (WM X)

8)Austin v. Bret (WM XIII)

9)Austin v. Bret (SurS96)

10)Bulldog v. Bret (Summ92)

[Guest JaKyL25]

Um, Bob? I think you're gonna need to be a little more specific on some of those.

[Guest Austin3164life]

My Favorite Matches:

 

1. Austin vs. Bret Hart (WM 13)

2. Bret vs. Owen (Summerslam Steel Cage)

3. HBK/Austin vs. Owen/Bulldog (May 31st, 1997)

4. Austin vs. Bret Hart (Summerslam 1996)

5. Triple H vs. Chris Benoit (No Mercy 00)

6. Austin/Triple H vs. Benoit/Jericho

7. Austin vs. Angle (Summerslam 01)

8. DiBiase vs. Savage (WM 4)

9. Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon (WM 10)

10. Austin vs. The Rock (WM 17)

[Guest godthedog]

1.) Flair vs. Steamboat, WrestleWar ‘89

2.) Bret vs. Owen, WrestleMania X

3.) Flair vs. Steamboat, Clash VI

4.) Bret vs. Austin, Survivor Series ‘96

5.) HHH vs. Cactus, Rumble ‘00

6.) HBK vs. Razor, WrestleMania X

7.) Rey vs. Eddie, Havoc ‘97

8.) Bret vs. Austin, WrestleMania XIII

9.) Steamboat vs. Luger, GAB ‘89

10.) HBK vs. Mankind, IYH 10

 

I can't dispute your #2, 3, or 6, since I haven't seen them. The rest are all solid (I mean, 5 of them are on my list too), although you're the first person I've seen with the Bret/Owen cage match as the best match EVER. Any explanation as to why you like it more than the Mania match, or other matches in general, or is it that you just do?

the WM10 match was technically amazing, & probably the most beautiful wrestling i've ever seen...easily in my top 20...but it just wasn't quite as emotionally compelling to me. bret getting his leg hurt and selling it beautifully, even when he did offensive moves, was a great touch, but...it was great on a cerebral level to me, not on a base emotional level like the cage match. when bret & owen were literally crawling over each other to get out of the cage, the desire to win was palatable, you could taste it. i never had any kind of involvement like that with the wrestlemania match (or any match, for that matter). the cage match makes sense in the same way that the wrestlemania match does (in that you don't have to suspend your disbelief too much), but the wrestlemania match seems to pride itself on how much sense it makes. the cage match is a dogfight between 2 brothers who are DESPERATE to win that only happens to make sense.

 

basically: with every other match i see, if i watch it enough i can detach myself from the emotion of the match & think "okay, now they're resting...good transition...crowd really bought that near-fall..." it's impossible for me to do that with the cage match, i get just as into it the 10th time i see it as the first time. it isn't necessarily the better match, it just has more of an effect on me.

 

there's 1 or 2 other guys on the board who also have it as their favorite, but i can't remember who they are.

 

and GET THE IRON MAN MATCH. NOW. hell, i'll dub a copy & send it to you free of charge when i get to my apartment if you'll cover S & H or do a trade.

[Guest JaKyL25]

I hesitate to turn this into a tape-trading thread, but what would you want? I have virtually every WWF PPV from Rumble '92-present, WCW PPVs from '95-'01, and ECW PPVs from '97-'00. Oh, and NWA stuff from '89.

 

Although it would probably be easier to pay the S & H.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

My Top 10:

 

1) Flair/Steamboat, Clash of the Champions 6

 

2) Austin/Bret, Survivor Series 96

 

3) WarGames 92

 

4) Luger/Sting vs. The Steiners, Superbrawl 91

 

5) Bret/Owen, WrestleMania 10

 

6) Austin/Bret, WrestleMania 13

 

7) WarGames 91

 

8) Sting/Vader, Great American Bash 92

 

9) Savage/Steamboat, WrestleMania 3

 

10) Austin/Benoit, May Smackdown 2001

 

 

No Japan stuff because I haven't seen that much, but I plan on getting a few tapes sometime soon, though.

 

Hey AustinHHH4Life, just wanna know what you liked about the HHH/Benoit match from No Mercy that was so good? Personally, I liked the match, myself, but the off-on psychology(which was kinda redeemed with the Trips DVD out of the Crossface) kinda hurt it for me.

[Guest JaKyL25]

I think what's cool about HHH vs. Benoit is that HHH targets Benoit's LEGS as a counter to the crossface. If Benoit can't lock your arms in his legs, he can't pull your head apart from your shoulder, and the Crossface just turns into basically a bad-ass chinlock.

 

Although since Benoit's really taken lately to NOT locking his legs around the arm anyway, it kind of makes the point moot.

 

I did like the story that they were even in the technical wrestling department, but HHH won because he cheats. I didn't like the fact that he got a pop for it though.

[Guest razazteca]

Flair vs Sting Clash of Champions

Rey Misterio Jr vs Eddy Guerrero

Eddy Guerrero vs Dean Malenko 2/3 ECW farewell match

Hayabusa vs Mr Gannosake title match

Beniot vs Angle 2/3 match

Shocker vs Dr Wagner Jr CMLL lightweight title match

Dr Wagner Jr vs Tarzan Boy CMLL lightweight title match

Hijo de Santo & Negro Casas vs Ultimo Guerrero & Rey Bucannero tag title match

TLC, the 1st one

[Guest godthedog]

I did like the story that they were even in the technical wrestling department, but HHH won because he cheats. I didn't like the fact that he got a pop for it though.

it always bothered me that triple h was supposed to be even in benoit's league in technical wrestling. triple h is nowhere near as good a technical wrestler as benoit is. jim ross has been shoving down our throats the idea that triple h is some kind of great technical wrestler, but he isn't. he isn't even a good technical wrestler. he can work the leg in about 3 or 4 different ways, and that's IT.

 

not really on the subject of greatest matches, but that's been bugging me for a while.

[Guest Coffin Surfer]

I think what's cool about HHH vs. Benoit is that HHH targets Benoit's LEGS as a counter to the crossface. If Benoit can't lock your arms in his legs, he can't pull your head apart from your shoulder, and the Crossface just turns into basically a bad-ass chinlock.

That's a bit of stretch, like that ridiculous RVD/Eddy Ladder thread where someone made up psycholoy for the blown spots.

 

It's more like HHH and Beniot had a few minutes to kill, so HHH worked on Benoit's legs to eat up the clock.

[Guest y2jailbait]

Hey, why not?

 

1) Steiners Vs. Sting & Luger; 1992

 

2) Wargames 92; Stings Squadron Vs. The Dangerous Alliance

 

3) Flair Vs Steamboat at The Clash; 1989

 

4) The Rock Vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin at Wrestlemania X7; 2001

 

5) Angle Vs. Benoit; RAW, 2001

 

6) Jericho Vs. Malenko; Slamboree, 1997. Okay, i know it wast the greatest technical match, but damn did it have drama and backstory written all over it!

 

7) HHH Vs. Mick Foley at Royal Rumble 2000

 

8) Royal Rumble 1992; whooooo

 

9) Randy Savage vs. DDP at spring stampede 1997

 

10) Dennis Rodman vs anyone; 19??

[Guest godthedog]

10) Dennis Rodman vs anyone; 19??

SHIT! i can't believe i forgot that one!

[Guest y2jailbait]

Yes, shame shame on all that have forgotten the almighty worm!

[Guest Ph34r Tha Leaf]

Dennis Rodman + Wrestling = RATINGZ!!!11!1!

[Guest CanadianChris]

I'll give this a shot...

 

1. Hart Foundation vs. Austin/Goldust/Shamrock/LOD, Canadian Stampede 97

Just my favourite match to watch...a combination of the awesome guys involved, the super-hot crowd, and the continuation of my favourite angle ever.

 

2. Savage vs. Steamboat, WM III

Combination of superb wrestling and a great angle -- I legitimately wanted Savage to get his ass kicked in this match (hey, I was 12!).

 

3. Austin/HHH vs. Benoit/Jericho, RAW 2001

Check out my avatar. 'Nuff said.

 

4. HHH vs. Cactus Jack, Royal Rumble 2000

Probably the most brutal 1-on-1 match I've ever seen.

 

5. Wargames 1992

Probably the most brutal match I've ever seen, period.

 

6. Royal Rumble 1992

Flair winning the title + Hogan getting booed = match I'll watch again and again.

 

7. Savage vs. Warrior, WM VII

Warrior's best match ever, and one of Savage's last truly great matches. Plus, the ending still gets me every time.

 

8. Steamboat vs. Flair, Clash VI (2/3 falls)

I've just about worn out this section of my WCW All-Nighter tape. A fantastic wrestling exhibition by two guys I just love to watch.

 

9. Michaels vs. Undertaker, Badd Blood 97 (Hell in a Cell)

Wish I could find this match on DVD somewhere...watching it on my computer through KaZaa just isn't the same. The best match of this genre...nearly flawless.

 

10. Hart vs. Austin, WM XIII

Kicked off said favourite angle off all time. Plus, the closing visual was just awesome...and the match itself was pretty good too.

[Guest godthedog]

6. Royal Rumble 1992

Flair winning the title + Hogan getting booed = match I'll watch again and again.

 

8. Steamboat vs. Flair, Clash VI (2/3 falls)

I've just about worn out this section of my WCW All-Nighter tape. A fantastic wrestling exhibition by two guys I just love to watch.

why is the rumble above flair/steamboat? just markout value, or do you think it was the better technical match?

[Guest CanadianChris]

More exciting. Plus, thsi is a favourite match list, not a best match list.

[Guest JaKyL25]

9. Michaels vs. Undertaker, Badd Blood 97 (Hell in a Cell)

Wish I could find this match on DVD somewhere...watching it on my computer through KaZaa just isn't the same. The best match of this genre...nearly flawless.

 

Umm...You realize that it IS on DVD somewhere, on "Undertaker: This is My Yard" to be more specific. The rest of the DVD sucks ass, but it's worth it for Hell in a Cell 1.

 

For the record, the other bonus matches are:

 

UT vs. Kane, Mania XIV

UT vs. Kane, Inferno Match, Unforgiven '98

UT vs. Angle, Fully Loaded '00

UT vs. HHH, Mania XVII (Not a BAD match, just already on DVD elsewhere)

[Guest CanadianChris]

9. Michaels vs. Undertaker, Badd Blood 97 (Hell in a Cell)

Wish I could find this match on DVD somewhere...watching it on my computer through KaZaa just isn't the same. The best match of this genre...nearly flawless.

 

Umm...You realize that it IS on DVD somewhere, on "Undertaker: This is My Yard" to be more specific. The rest of the DVD sucks ass, but it's worth it for Hell in a Cell 1.

I haven't seen this on sale anywhere here in Canada, and I don't generally go out of my way to check out Undertaker DVDs. I might try and find this one now, though...thanks.

[Guest undisputedjericho]

10) Dudleys vs Hardys (RR00)

9) Jericho/Benoit vs Austin/HHH (5/21/01)

8) Rock vs Foley (RR99)

7) Angle vs Rock (NM00)

6) Angle vs Shane (KOTR01)

5) TLC III (WMX7)

4) Taker vs Foley (KOTR98)

3) Austin vs Foley (OTE98)

2) Austin vs Angle (SS01)

1) HHH vs Rock (SS98)

 

Tell me I should have Flair, Steamboat, Hart, or Japanese stuff and I'll tell you that the only techincal match I've ever liked was Angle/Benoit from WrestleMania, so get off of my back in advance. I didn't particularly care for WM III's Savage/Steamboat match or the WM X "Classic" Bret vs. Owen.

 

undisputedjericho: Breaking the mold of the regular smark.

[Guest Hitman Jebus]

If it's recognized as one of the best matches ever and it's not in my list then I probably haven't seen it (aka Flair vs. Steamboat, HHH vs. Cactus at RR 2000)

 

 

My top ten (so far):

 

1- Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart (WrestleMania X)

2- Bret Hart vs. Davey Boy Smith (SummerSlam 92)

3- Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart (SummerSlam 94)

4- Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect (King of The Ring 93)

5- Shawn Micheals vs. Mankind (Mind Games - IYH Sept. 96)

6- Davey Boy Smith vs. Owen Hart (European Title Final - RAW March 97)

7- Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon (SummerSlam 95)

8- Royal Rumble 92 (WHOOOOO!)

9- Johnny B. Badd vs. Brian Pillman (Fall Brawl 95)

10- Bret and Owen Hart vs. Steiners (WrestleFest 94)

[Guest bob_barron]

10) Dudleys vs Hardys (RR00)

9) Jericho/Benoit vs Austin/HHH (5/21/01)

8) Rock vs Foley (RR99)

7) Angle vs Rock (NM00)

6) Angle vs Shane (KOTR01)

5) TLC III (WMX7)

4) Taker vs Foley (KOTR98)

3) Austin vs Foley (OTE98)

2) Austin vs Angle (SS01)

1) HHH vs Rock (SS98)

 

Tell me I should have Flair, Steamboat, Hart, or Japanese stuff and I'll tell you that the only techincal match I've ever liked was Angle/Benoit from WrestleMania, so get off of my back in advance. I didn't particularly care for WM III's Savage/Steamboat match or the WM X "Classic" Bret vs. Owen.

 

undisputedjericho: Breaking the mold of the regular smark.

TLC III was on SD!.

 

You didn't like Bret v. Owen?? (cries)

[Guest godthedog]

Tell me I should have Flair, Steamboat, Hart, or Japanese stuff and I'll tell you that the only techincal match I've ever liked was Angle/Benoit from WrestleMania, so get off of my back in advance. I didn't particularly care for WM III's Savage/Steamboat match or the WM X "Classic" Bret vs. Owen.

vince mcmahon would be proud.

[Guest JaKyL25]

10) Dudleys vs Hardys (RR00)

9) Jericho/Benoit vs Austin/HHH (5/21/01)

8) Rock vs Foley (RR99)

7) Angle vs Rock (NM00)

6) Angle vs Shane (KOTR01)

 

4) Taker vs Foley (KOTR98)

3) Austin vs Foley (OTE98)

2) Austin vs Angle (SS01)

1) HHH vs Rock (SS98)

 

Tell me I should have Flair, Steamboat, Hart, or Japanese stuff and I'll tell you that the only techincal match I've ever liked was Angle/Benoit from WrestleMania, so get off of my back in advance. I didn't particularly care for WM III's Savage/Steamboat match or the WM X "Classic" Bret vs. Owen.

 

I won't bother you about your disliking of technical matches (Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks, I guess), but I WILL call you on this one (maybe):

 

5) TLC III (WMX7)

 

I'm not sure if you actually mean TLC 3 from Smackdown or TLC 2 from Mania XVII, but if you mean the Mania one, I'm still perplexed as to how anyone could logically like it better than TLC 1 at Summerslam '00. I mean, if it's just a kinda gut feeling/fond memories thing maybe, but watching both back-to-back, TLC 1 is such an awesome, BELIEVABLE match, while TLC 2 is way more spotty, and a few of the spots are SO illogically set-up and contrived that they can't help but draw you out of the match.

 

Example: Edge setting up the ladders in the ring, for NO DISCERNABLE REASON, that Jeff later walks across to get to the titles, which he then swings from in a repeat of the TLC 1 spot, except now he gets speared off of them by Edge from a taller ladder, in a repeat of the Hardyz/E&C Tag Ladder match from the first TNN Raw. I mean, you can't say that Edge deliberately set those ladders up to entice Hardy into walking them to the belts 10 minutes later, and then was counting on D-Von to pull the ladder out from under Jeff and swing him toward Edge who would (hopefully) be waiting on the big ladder in the corner by then, can you? And if you CAN make THAT much of a logic leap, then why didn't Edge just take the big ladder and climb and get the belts instead of taking twice as long to set up that 1% chance of succeeding scheme? He was all alone in the ring for like 2 minutes.

 

The complete lack of little things like that help me enjoy the Summerslam TLC a LOT more.

[Guest bob_barron]

TLC1 is the better match but here my reviews of both. (Never reviewed 3)

 

THE MATCH- 6-way brawl to start. Matt throws a chair right in Bubba’s face. Jeff runs into the chair. E and C beat on D-Von. Edge gets a chair and does a drop-toehold to D-Von so D-Von head hits the chair. Ouch! Pier-4 brawl, Edge brings a ladder. He puts Bubba in front of the ladder and runs towards it Bubba moves. Bubba DDT’s Christian. Bubba climbs but the Hardyz double-powerbomb him off. Jeff Hardy climbs as D-Von brings in another ladder. Christian sneaks behind them and double Russian-legsweeps them off. Ouch! Christian starts to climb, but Bubba gives him the Bubba-bomb off the ladder. Awesome! The ladders even tip over. Edge hammers Matt. Jeff climbs and gets thrown off to wear he hits the ladder-face first and the ladder flings up and nails Matt in the face. HOLY SHIT! Jeff blocks Conchairto, Bubba throws a ladder into his face. Christian takes the Wazzup Drop from the ladder. D-VON-GET THE TABLES. Bubba drops ladder on Jeff’s face. Christian gets 3-Ded through a table. Dudz stack two tables on top of another. Edge comes back and whallops the Dudz with a chair. Edge takes the Twist of Fate from Matt. Matt jumps off the ladder onto Edge, while Jeff LEAPFROGS OVER THE LADDER! HOLY SHIT!! Jeff Hardy is insane. Edge gets sandwhiched in between the ladder. Christian is about to jump off the top rope and stop this but he GETS THROWN ONTO THE LADDER! OH MY GOD! OH MY GOD! On the outside Jeff sets up a huge ladder with Bubba lying on the table. This is a huge ladder. He attempts the Swanton and Bubba moves. HOLY SHIT! Jeff is dead, kicking the bucket, 6 ft. under. “I pray for these 6 men-JR” Matt starts to climb as Edge nails Bubba. D-Von and Matt start to climb as do E and C. Christian gives Matt the Unprettier, Edge chucks D-Von off the ladder. Bubba isn’t dead so he tries to climb but E and C push him off and he goes FLYING THROUGH FOUR TABLES. HOLY HOLY HOLY SHIT! OH MY HOLY GOD! It’s just them so they start to climb. But here’s LITA! Crowd goes apeshit. She pushes E and C off crotching them. Lita screeches for Matt to climb. “You’re at home, son. Go up that ladder.”-JR. King even roots for him. Matt starts to climb, but D-Von pushes him off and he flies straight out of the ring into a table. I’m running out of HOLY SHIT’S. Matt is DEAD. Lita goes to check on him, and Edge decides to spear her and her head rams into the mat. Go Lita! Jeff and D-Von are left and they start to climb. They both get hold of one belt and the ladder moves leaving them hanging in the air! Wicked. D-Von falls and the crowd is going crazy as Jeff is hanging there. Jeff gets nailed with a ladder and falls. E and C climb and win. *****- One of the best matches ever. This one MOTY at RSPW, which I strongly agree with. TLC I was better then TLC II, but TLC II is still ***** also. I salute Jeff, Matt, D-Von, Bubba Ray, Edge and Christian for putting such a great show for us.

_____________________________________

 

Dudley Boyz v. Edge and Christian v. Hardy Boyz in TLC2 for the WWF Tag Titles

 

Everyone goes after E-n-C. Double flapjack to Christian by Dudz and Hardyz and Dudz brawl. E-n-C smack the Hardyz and Dudz with ladder. E-n-C stomp on Matt’s nuts. Jeff gets drop toe-holded on a ladder. Edge climbs- Matt saves and they brawl. Edge clotheslines Matt off the ladder. Edge climbs- Matt takes him out. Hardyz hit Whysper in the wind off the two ladders on Christian. Dudleyz come in and clean house and hit the Wassup Drop on Edge. D-Von! What? GET THE TABLES! Edge gets layed out on a table and they powerbomb Jeff ON TO HIM! HOLY SHIT! Dudleyz set up two tables and put two on top. Soon all six climb- all six fall off including Christian who splats on the floor. Edge starts to climb when Spike Dudley runs in and Acid Drops Edge and Acid Drops Christian threw a table. That was cool. Rhyno runs in. He smashes D-Von with a ladder. GORE! GORE! GORE! To Bubba-Ray, GORE! GORE! GORE! to Matt- threw a table. Heeeeeeeeeeere’s Lita. Lita runs in and takes Edge off but gets pressed by Rhyno. Spike nutshots Rhyno and Litacurrana’s Rhyno. Spike whacks Rhyno with a chair who falls into the ladder causing Edge to fall on the ropes. Dudleyville Device on Rhyno. Lita chairshots Spike and takes off her shirt but walks into a 3-D. Edge chairs both Dudleyz but there’s no ladder. Jeff sets up a ladder with Lita’s shirt hanging off. Jeff sets-up the super-duper ladder and Swanton Bombs Rhyno and Spike through a table. HOLY SHIT! Four ladders are now in the ring. Christian and D-Von climb- Matt removes the ladder leaving them hanging. D-Von falls as does Christian. Jeff tries to walk the ladders but falls and almost kills himself. He climbs the ladder and hangs onto the belt while trying to keep his balance on the ladder. Bubba Ray moves the ladder leaving Jeff hanging. Edge flies off a ladder and spears Jeff Hardy into the ground. OH. MY. GOD! HOLY, HOLY, HOLY GOD! Bubba and Matt climb but Rhyno pushes them off and they go flying into four ladders. HOLY SHIT to the 10th degree. They just go splat. Rhyno then lifts E-n-C on his shoulders and they win. *****

[Guest undisputedjericho]

1) I meant TLC II.

2) I liked it better than the first.

3) Who needs psycolgy in a ladder match? That's like people compaining about the Foley/Taker HIAC for lack of wrestling.

[Guest bob_barron]

Psycology just makes a match enjoyable.

 

ie: TLC1 where Bubba moves out of the Swanton

[Guest JaKyL25]

It's not that I'm saying that it needs GREAT psychology, but at LEAST the psychology of "Where is every guy in the match, and if he isn't going for the titles, why isn't he?"

 

Otherwise it just becomes guys out there killing themselves for no real reason, and we can't even PRETEND that it isn't, since they're obviously just setting up the next "awesome spot".

 

TLC 1 has this psychology. TLC 2 does sometimes, sometimes doesn't.

 

Edit: Oh yeah, I was gonna say that I don't think people complain about Taker/Mankind Hell in a Cell because of lack of "wrestling", they just bash it because, beyond those 2 big spots, it's pretty darn boring in their opinion (and mine). It's slow and anticlimactic.