Guest RicFlairGlory Report post Posted August 5, 2002 Why in the world do some of you clamor for a push for Awesome, yet hate on Cena? Did you people see any of Mike Awesome's matches since returning? They have been the worst matches on the show. Has Mike ever been in a good match with anyone besides people who are willing to get seriously injured by his offense? His acting and micwork are equally as bad. Cena has a lot of upside, a lot more than Awesome, but yet some of you hate HIM because he is booked to look good against Angle and was booked over Jericho. Thats kinda markish. 1) I dont mark for Mike Awesome 2) Even if he doesnt have GREAT matches, he deserves a shot more than some OVW jobber who just showed up. I dont mean this in a "I'm going to pimp MA" way, but seriously, NOBODY deserves to enter the WWE and get a mega-push. If you were in ECW or WCW you have to "pay your dues," well what about the new guys? Some asshole from OVW should have to pay their dues too. How many people got pushed to the moon from day one, and have turned out to have great careers? Goldbergs the most recent memory I have, and he has such an ego that if he came back he'd refuse to job, ever. If people are made to "pay their dues," the green pieces of crap should be paying them too, same as everybody who was ever in the WWF. First time on the world stage (aka PPV) and you beat the first Undisputed Champion ever? If thats NOT "not paying dues," I dont know what would be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest LaParkaMarka Report post Posted August 5, 2002 You DONT make a star by having him immediately do great against Angle, going OVER Jericho, and continually stringing wins together Thats how you make a SuckBerg Why dont you... I dont know, give someone a good match against a decent opponent (NOT Angle), and have him go on from there, and IF he gets heat facing lower midcarders, THEN give him a push. I bet Vince never takes a car for a test drive either! Like I said, Blue Chipper overpush. I agree that they aren't pushing him properly. But at least they're giving a push to someone young and somewhat talented, as opposed to Random Hoss 23213. They should probably have started out with Cena using a *new* kind of offense against a bunch of loser midcarders and going over (Venis, Holly, Dvon, etc) and then when he's actually over giving him the uber-push he's getting now. I really don't know how they'd "fix" Cena now. Beyond giving him some hokey injury angle to get him offscreen for a while. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Human Fly Report post Posted August 5, 2002 What do you think the WWEs plan is for Mysterio? If they are just going to have him be in the CW division what's the point of having him have a little program with Angle? If they were going to try and make him a serious threat to the IC or even the Undisputed it would be different but I don't see that happening. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RicFlairGlory Report post Posted August 5, 2002 Like I said, Blue Chipper overpush. I agree that they aren't pushing him properly. But at least they're giving a push to someone young and somewhat talented, as opposed to Random Hoss 23213. They should probably have started out with Cena using a *new* kind of offense against a bunch of loser midcarders and going over (Venis, Holly, Dvon, etc) and then when he's actually over giving him the uber-push he's getting now. I really don't know how they'd "fix" Cena now. Beyond giving him some hokey injury angle to get him offscreen for a while. That illustrates the other problem, very similar to whats happening to Jericho (though its FAR worse with rookies) Once you get pushed to all imagination, you can very rarely live up to it again. If everyone expects you to be great, and you arent.... no heat. Ever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest HartFan86 Report post Posted August 5, 2002 You guys read the Hogan/Lesnar match? Hogan passes out in the fucking BEARHUG. Shoot me now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest LaParkaMarka Report post Posted August 5, 2002 That illustrates the other problem, very similar to whats happening to Jericho (though its FAR worse with rookies) Once you get pushed to all imagination, you can very rarely live up to it again. If everyone expects you to be great, and you arent.... no heat. Ever. I dunno about that. Trips has been pretty sucktacular since his return, and yet he's still over. Probably due to the fact that everyone harps on how important he is, and he goes over at the right points. If Jericho had the same thing happen to him, I imagine he'd still be over now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheHulkster Report post Posted August 5, 2002 Wrestlers "Paying Dues" is one of the major reasons (in my opinion) business is down. Down the line, every new wrestler for the past year and a half has "payed their dues" and there has been asbolutely no benefit besides appeasing the veterans in the back. Appeasing the Veterans isn't what sells tickets. Now, they decide to bring fresh faces in and try to make them solid and credible, yet some people on the net clamor for them to pay their dues, which basically equates to newcomers getting buried because the newcomers before them got buried.Thats just counterproductive, and I think WWE has finally realized this. Sure, Cena, Lesnar, etc. might not be totally ready for prime time just yet, but they will be eventually, so there is no point cutting them off at the legs during a period that is so important to the growth of their career. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest the pinjockey Report post Posted August 5, 2002 I agree that the idea of "Paying your dues" is used way too much. But I do believe in the idea that you should show some deserving of a big push. If Cena was going over guys in the solid midcard area then I wouldn't think as much of it because he is getting a sustained push without being given too much. But Brock and Cena showed no evidence of being over so they should not be in the ME mix. Even Goldberg went months before getting in the ME area and by the time he was ready people were begging for him to be in the ME. They need to make the fans want the new guys in the ME before actually putting them there because it hurts everyone in the long run. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest C-Bacon Report post Posted August 5, 2002 ok, its the summer and everything and i loose track of days, but im prerty sure today is sunday so can someone tell me WHY Smackdown is being taped today BEFORE RAW? it IS sunday isnt it???? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest LaParkaMarka Report post Posted August 5, 2002 ok, its the summer and everything and i loose track of days, but im prerty sure today is sunday so can someone tell me WHY Smackdown is being taped today BEFORE RAW? it IS sunday isnt it???? Where have you been? Today is Tuesday. Also: read page one of the thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest thebigjig Report post Posted August 5, 2002 lol, I just got past reading the first page of this thread and I have no desire to read any further... I'm tired of reading "fuck John Cena" repeated so many times that it appears that you guys are on the verge of committing a hate crime And they say you guys are cynical? Harumph! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Hogan Made Wrestling Report post Posted August 5, 2002 Why is it than when Cena's angles are being changed by HHH everyone is rallying around him and talking about how his push is being sabotaged and how he could be a big star, but now that HHH is out of the picture it's all "fuck Cena", "Cena is green and shouldn't be pushed" etc.? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted August 5, 2002 Cause I hate John Cena- ever since the Gay Slap of Death on Jericho Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheRockIsTheEuropeanChampion Report post Posted August 5, 2002 For all of the OVW wrestlers I've seen so far, Cena is the least entertaining. Of course, I've only seen what he's done on SmackDown, but .. I haven't found him entertaining since that first match with Angle. It was kind of funny when Test slapped him, though. Oh, Test, you sure crack me up ... "Gay Slap of Death" ... Even funnier than Test! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest chirs3 Report post Posted August 5, 2002 Ok... Here's what I got from the recap, let me know if I'm missing anything. -----> Two filler matches with no meaning and the wrong people winning (Henry/Rikishi) -----> The friggin' dream team of Anglerroit loses to Mystenadge. -----> Hogan loses to a bear hug. -----> Hurricane's team (not him) wins on a rollup. -----> Nidia. Yea, I think I can miss this show. I wouldn't mind Anglerroit losing, but as I've pointed out before, Cena (and now Rey) are being sold as rookies. Cole is saying as they come out, "What a great up and comer, a rookie with a bright future here in the WWE." Someone like that has no business beating Angle or Benoit or Guerrero. Sell him as a fucking threat, you bastards! At least Edge is on their team, giving them something like credibility. Yea, I think I can miss this show. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jobber of the Week Report post Posted August 5, 2002 I will not miss this show myself, but simply because I record and encode certain wrestlers' matches to put on VCD. Otherwise, yuck. I think the stupid "paying your dues" shit is crap too. I mean, jeezus, if the guy has decent moves (The bearhug is NOT a good finisher, guys! Netiher is a spinebuster!), cane make them look real (and with the WWE's constantly jumping cameras, even I probably could), and has the build to make it look like he can properly do it and make it hurt (although lightweights aren't typically doing power moves), then why not put him up against the Kurts and the Jerichos? "Paying your dues" keeps the vets on top happy because they don't feel threatened, and keeps the Bossmans and Alberts happy because they actually get a win, however IT DOES NOT PUT ASSES IN SEATS. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RicFlairGlory Report post Posted August 5, 2002 Wrestlers "Paying Dues" is one of the major reasons (in my opinion) business is down. Down the line, every new wrestler for the past year and a half has "payed their dues" and there has been asbolutely no benefit besides appeasing the veterans in the back. Appeasing the Veterans isn't what sells tickets. Now, they decide to bring fresh faces in and try to make them solid and credible, yet some people on the net clamor for them to pay their dues, which basically equates to newcomers getting buried because the newcomers before them got buried.Thats just counterproductive, and I think WWE has finally realized this. Sure, Cena, Lesnar, etc. might not be totally ready for prime time just yet, but they will be eventually, so there is no point cutting them off at the legs during a period that is so important to the growth of their career. If we're to use your logic, and terms, I'd have to call the Veterans the guys who have been here since say... '98. Rocky, Triple H, Austin (if he were here), Flair, Hogan, HBK, Taker, etcetera... While I'm not clamoring for everybody to do this "pay your dues" crap, I figure most of the people who have been here since around 2000, like RVD, Jericho, Angle, Benoit, Guerrero, etcetera are the ones deserving of a push. This is their time, they're established, they're over, give 'em their due! Now the people I WANT to "pay dues" are the rookies, the kids who have only been here since this year, a-la Lesnar, Cena, Orton, and all these "hot young up'n'comers." They've been here a couple months. They shouldnt be getting wins over established stars already. Rookies need to pay their dues. The upper mid-card needs to be elevated, so that the rookies can eventually become the middle-carders of the next few years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RicFlairGlory Report post Posted August 5, 2002 To re-iterate, when I say "paying dues" I dont mean the WWE's "Fuck WCW and ECW" policy, just that rookies, especially being sold as rookies, shouldnt be being pushed to the moon right off the bat. Let the fans get used to you, let the fans WANT you to be big before you get the push there. Some say Angle was pushed to the moon, Fast, some say Goldberg was pushed to the moon, Fast.... But at least they fucking got over. Cena and Lesnar can NOT make that claim, let them get started in the lower card, Vince has to realize he cannot rush creating a star. Stars have to grow and mature. Same as baseball, you cant throw a rookie in the cleanup spot. Not gonna work. Push the guys on the verge and build up the rookies. Not push the rookies past the guys on the verge and let them rot in the mid-card while HHH sits back and laughs at how Jericho is feuding with a 50 year old. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest geniusMoment Report post Posted August 5, 2002 No stacy? I guess this means she will be on Raw tonight which I guessed after her segment with steph last week Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest LesnarLunatic Report post Posted August 5, 2002 Mike Awesome.. let me just say this. As much as he is fun to watch. Let's realize the obvious. Awesome is only good against guys who can bump or guys that can carry him. Awesome had a good match with Tajiri. Well, DUH! Who doesn't have a good match with Tajiri? he's one of the best in the WWE. Can anybody name a good match of Awesome's that wasn't with Masato Tanaka, Tajiri or Spike Dudley? Face it.. Awesome can't work the mic, his style relies on people taking huge bumps for him, he's gonna job alot more in the WWE. Like it or not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest red_file Report post Posted August 5, 2002 Can anybody name a good match of Awesome's that wasn't with Masato Tanaka, Tajiri or Spike Dudley? He had a good match with Kobashi in '99. But still, the point stands. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest nikowwf Report post Posted August 5, 2002 Angle was not over from day 1. He had good matches that had no heat. Even when he started building, he wasn't uber over. Everyone is rewriting history now to justify ending the pushes for Brock and Cena. When Angle got over fully, he got OVER. I don't know about you people, but I went to the MSG house show a while back and Brock was super over as a heel. They've been force feeding us Rock/HHH/Austin/Taker in some combination for years now. Let them at least force us someone new. We are having attempts at elevation and people want them to end right now. It boggles the mind sometimes. Niko Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Spaceman Spiff Report post Posted August 5, 2002 Stick Awesome in a tag team w/ somebody who can talk. "Problems" solved. Jobbing him to *Farooq* does nothing for *anybody*. Jobbing anyone to Farooq, at this point, makes no sense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest FeArHaVoC Report post Posted August 5, 2002 I'm never leaving town again, damnit! I come back to find out that Bret Hart is the sole reason why WcW went under and that WWE programming has gone back to Hell. This Spoiler better be a damn Decoy and their gonna have a live Smackdown from Aussie' because this show sucks! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Report post Posted August 5, 2002 Forcing something new is good. But they are passing by forcing things that people actually...you know...want... What's the point of people showing up and cheering on their favorites...when the WWE doesn't translate it into more airtime for them...or god forbid...pushes. ...oh wait...people aren't really going anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Report post Posted August 5, 2002 "Why is it than when Cena's angles are being changed by HHH everyone is rallying around him and talking about how his push is being sabotaged and how he could be a big star, but now that HHH is out of the picture it's all "fuck Cena", "Cena is green and shouldn't be pushed" etc.? " Because it had nothing to do with Cena... It had to do with HHH HAS NO FUCKING BUSINESS STICKING IS NOSE IN ANY OTHER WRESLERS ANGLE Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Human Fly Report post Posted August 5, 2002 Angle was not over from day 1. He had good matches that had no heat. Even when he started building, he wasn't uber over. Everyone is rewriting history now to justify ending the pushes for Brock and Cena. In Angle's case though it still took him around a year to get the World Title, by that time he was over. Brock has been around for around 6 and he's getting the title. Brock is not close to being over. Brock has only lost by CO or DQ, Angle lost his first clean match to Tazz two months after he debuted. Angle got a big push, but it's no where near as big as Brock's is. Brock's getting a push right now that 9.5/10 of the roster will never get in their career. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Report post Posted August 5, 2002 "Brock has been around for around 6 " try 4. He arrived post Mania...in April. The idea of Lesnar as champ grows weaker and weaker as the match approaches. Not a good thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest LesnarLunatic Report post Posted August 5, 2002 "Brock has been around for around 6 " try 4. He arrived post Mania...in April. The idea of Lesnar as champ grows weaker and weaker as the match approaches. Not a good thing. Brock showed up on March 18th, 2002, after WM. He'll be in the WWF for about 5 months when he wins the title. Yokozuna had an absurdly short time in the WWF before he won the belt and Brock is better than Yokozuna was. Brock would be more over if.. #1) he wasn't so dependant on Heyman for wins #2) He destroyed everybody #3) Heyman knew how to give Brock heat instead of putting heat on HIMSELF. Brock is the attraction, not Heyman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Report post Posted August 5, 2002 Actually...there is no way to know if that or anything else will get Brock over. I happen to think that people are getting sick of not seeing the guys they like get pushed. Brock is a new guy getting pushed...so we should all be happy. Bullshit. It's a slap in the face to the guys who busted their ass to try to break through to the top and can't do it for...reasons. I think people don't like Brock because he isn't what they want...and he's getting the push. Period. So as long as the push continues...I don't think he'll get over. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
