More death in Israel

[Guest Invader3k]

There were a couple more bombings over the weekend. What else is new? Not much I guess...of course Muslims are responsible again, but Israel will somehow be blamed after they justifiably retaliate.

 

Just expell the Palestinians now please, and get it over with. No other nation on earth is expected to put up with as much crap as Israel does. Fuck the U.N.

[Guest bob_barron]

Fuck Palestine

[Guest Cancer Marney]

Weren't five of our citizens killed in the attack on that Jerusalem university? Why are we still talking? Because they're poor and oppressed, so we have to treat them like little children who don't realise they're being evil sadistic bastards when they pull wings off butterflies? Fuck it. If they're old enough to kill American citizens, they're old enough to be force-fed some napalm.

[Guest big Dante Cruz]

Isn't that the line (killing US citizens) that we're supposed to get extremely pissed off at and, oh, I don't know, do something?

[Guest MrRant]

I say give them all some more guns and a week. Whoever kills more of the other side wins the land. Simple.

[Guest EricMM]

What a fucking swamp.

 

On one hand, my initial reaction has been fuck them both. I don't care about Israel any more than I particulary care for Palestinie. But then again, they killed Americans. Thats a fucking no-no to put it lightly. Then again, as my friend said anyone who goes to israel right now is taking a risk. Thats fucking harsh, but it's got a little truth in it.

 

If theres anything been proven over the past few years, nobody knows the right answer to solve their problems. Nobody can make them play nice.

 

It has come to a point where I am fully saying I don't know what to think of about that stuff anymore. I mean I would like to think that everyone born in Palestine has the ability to be a good person. But their surroundings do not seem very condusive (sp) to that. So we get what amounts to a state that would love to do us and ours a world of hurt.

 

It comes down to my liberal tendancies to assume that most people are good, versus my worries that there will never be any proof to that regarding Palestine. Sometimes I just wish they'd FUCKING STOP. Life for everyone would get a million times better because once that happened, then people would start demonizing Israel for the settlements. But Palestine hasn't stopped.

 

What a fucking swamp.

[Guest DrTom]

"Isn't that the line (killing US citizens) that we're supposed to get extremely pissed off at and, oh, I don't know, do something?"

 

The point is, we shouldn't have to do anything. Israel should have taken care of this by killing Arafat when they had his building surrounded, then taking whatever measures they felt appropriate in response to future terrorist acts. Had they done that, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I still don't think the US should get involved, other than to encourage Israel to walk into Palestine and slaughter the whole lot of those conscienceless savages.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

I think we should. I think that we have not only a right but a responsibility to get involved. I think we should make it crystal goddamn clear that you do NOT kill Americans. Americans must be free to walk the earth from one end to another with the absolute confidence that if anyone from any country harms so much as one hair on their heads, our armed forces will visit upon them a retribution that is certain, swift, and cruel. There should be no room for discussion. None. Whoever you're fighting, whatever has been done to you, whatever your values, whoever the fucking hell you are, harm one American citizen - just one - and you will pay a terrible price. For us to be secure as a nation, and for us, the government, to fulfill our primary duty to our citizens, this message must be understood by all countries and all peoples. Do what you want to whoever you want; we'll deal with it case by case. But don't ever harm one of ours. That should neither be forgotten nor forgiven.

[Guest NoCalMike]

This problem creates a dilema. On one hand you have the extremists/fundamentalists that will stop at nothing for that little piece of land, and who do NOT respect human life at all. I don't doubt at all Arafat's people would easily kill him without hesitation if they thought he was getting "soft". Yet on the other hand there are the MAJORITY of people there that just want peace and harmony, but don't know how to obtain it and are too scared to try.....so it is a difficult situation that I for one, am not sure how to fix......

[Guest big Dante Cruz]

I have to agree with Marney about the message the US ought to send around the world. Palestinians would probably say "Oh, we didn't know there were Americans there" but screw them. It's a University. Of course there are going to be foreigners there. Screw the bleeding heart bull, and tell Israel to load up and go for it. From everything that's going on, the average Palestinian citizen may want peace, but unfortunately, those that "represent" them couldn't give much less of a damn about it. Which brings up the question, why don't the average Palestinians do something about these maniacs. You want peace? Why let some zealots tell the world otherwise?

[Guest Some Guy]

This problem creates a dilema. On one hand you have the extremists/fundamentalists that will stop at nothing for that little piece of land, and who do NOT respect human life at all. I don't doubt at all Arafat's people would easily kill him without hesitation if they thought he was getting "soft". Yet on the other hand there are the MAJORITY of people there that just want peace and harmony, but don't know how to obtain it and are too scared to try.....so it is a difficult situation that I for one, am not sure how to fix......

Not all of tehm would go out and kill, but he vast majority of of tehm and teh Arab world support the terrorism. They have been so indoctrinated with hate form their backwards religion that they don;t know any better. I just read an article from Time today, where they say an avg 6th grade history book in Saudi Arabi, our largest Arab "ally" would contain things like, "God willing we will be able to kill all the Jews and our enemies." They're religion clerics will say say in mosque that "ghod made the Jews and Americans pigs" and bash Hinduism as well. Seems like a heathly place to raise a child, huh?

 

The entire Arab world is completely fucked up and backwards, their schools preach hate, their governments preach hate, their Religion preaches hate, and yet somehow the Jews and Americans are the bad guys.

 

At this opoint the only way top fix it is to blow it up and start over again. It's like a car that has been totaled and needs replacing. Arafat needs to go, Hamas needs to go, Sadam needs to go, the Saudi family needs to go and so on down the line. I've had more than enough of people who bring their own problems upon themselves through a backwards religion, hatred, and incompitence blaming America.

[Guest X briar rose X]

I agree that some sort of justice should be served for the lives taken in the Middle East, but not just for Americans, for all lives. We're not the only ones here, and the attitude that Marney takes is reminiscent of racism, just on a global level.

 

All the trouble religion causes ... destroy God(s)!

 

(The opinion in this post is mine alone, don't get offended.)

[Guest Cancer Marney]

the attitude that Marney takes is reminiscent of racism, just on a global level.

This is complete nonsense. The primary duty of the American government is to the American people. Yes, we should be altruistic when we can, but altruism cannot be our primary motivation. We should protect American lives and exact justice for American deaths. Not Somalians, not Chechnyans, not Rwandans. Americans.

[Guest X briar rose X]

The primary duty of the American government is to the American people.

 

In America.

 

Looking back on all the recent news stories of abductions, rapes, murders ... shouldn't we be working on protecting Americans from Americans first?

 

Once you step onto Isreal soil, you're not in America anymore. You're under their laws. Unless that university was under rule like an embassy, we've got to sit back and let Isreal handle the problem.

[Guest EricMM]

I think what Marney is saying is that we really shouldn't... If America won't support it's citizens in foreign states then who will? That as far as Americans should be concerned, American lives are more important than foreign laws or concerns, and this is valid.

 

Besides I don't think Israel would mind us getting a little more pissed off at Palestine

 

I mean I know what you're saying, but just because a citizen was not in an embassy doesn't mean s/he wasn't part of America when they were targeted. It just means it wasn't an attack on American soil for whatever that's worth... It's still a lot A LOT more important than hundreds of Israelis dying as far as American leaders are concerned. I mean yes, the Jewish lobby is large and they would like to see every Israeli death avenged, but dude, what about the AMERICAN lobby?

[Guest Cancer Marney]

shouldn't we be working on protecting Americans from Americans first?

We can and must do both. Are you proposing that we should try to eliminate crime? We can't. Crime and violence are endemic to human nature. Even if we were to turn over all our foreign intelligence and defence resources to domestic criminal enforcement tomorrow, people would be kidnapped and murdered. And we'd soon have a whole host of additional problems.

 

Once you step onto Isreal soil, you're not in America anymore. You're under their laws. Unless that university was under rule like an embassy, we've got to sit back and let Isreal handle the problem.

First of all, it's Israel, not "Isreal." Second, I really doubt that Israel would refuse us the right to retaliate, or at the very least "assist" in their efforts to hunt down the perpetrators. Third, even if they did, they couldn't do very much about it, which was my point in the first place. Your approach would give anti-American terrorists free license to hunt our citizens outside our borders, as indeed they have in the past. Remember the Achille Lauro? Rather than declaring "Civis Americanus sum," and striding forward, confident in their country's ability and willingness to ensure their safety, or avenge their deaths, our citizens actually hide their passports when terrorists attack. Ask yourself why. Rome didn't give a damn about international sensitivities when one of her citizens had been murdered. We shouldn't either. The line needs to be drawn. We should be able to point to it and say: You see that line? You cross it, and no matter who you are, where you are, or whose responsibility you were - we'll make you our problem, and we'll deal with you. And we will deal with you.

[Guest redbaron51]

fuck the jews (sorry if anyone is jewish) palistinians were robbed of their home land thanks to Britian and America (i think).

[Guest DrTom]

"fuck the jews (sorry if anyone is jewish) palistinians were robbed of their home land thanks to Britian and America (i think)."

 

If you're going to be enough of an ass to say, "Fuck the Jews," you should at least have the common sense to be certain of what you say after it. So not only are you an insensitive jackass, you're a stupid insensitive jackass. Good job, slugger.

 

BTW, I'm not disingenuous enough to offer a trite apology for being offensive when I bloody well meant what I said. Just saying.

[Guest DrTom]

"We should be able to point to it and say: You see that line? You cross it, and no matter who you are, where you are, or whose responsibility you were - we'll make you our problem, and we'll deal with you. And we will deal with you."

 

Not that I needed a lot of convincing here, but I think this is the right way to go about things. We wouldn't have to consider it, though, if Israel had the spine to end the mess with Arafat and the Palestinians once and for all, though. Maybe we'll be able to stop fellating that thug long enough to force-feed him and his worthless supporters generous helpings of hot lead.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

The Palestinian never had a country. They where offered land for a country but they turned it down.

 

Sure the kidnappings and murders are terrible but it isn't any greater know than it used to be.

 

Hamas is full of crap when they say didn't target Americans. They made it a point to say the U.S. supplied the missiles that blew up that buidling.

[Guest MrRant]

Lets send Mr T there to handle those fools.

[Guest Vagabond]

The whole situation in the middle east shows why you should never allow religion to be any basis for politics. There is no room for negotiation because neither side is willing to compromise in any way. They can be forced to play nice but that will only last for a short time. Both sides claim to want peace but neither is willing to do anything that is required to get it. The Israelis don't want a free Palestine because then they would have to actually declare war in order to roll their tanks in there anytime they feel like it. A free Palestine would be able to buy arms and equip an army. Never gonna happen unless they are forced. The Palestinians are using a version of Ghandi's non violent revolution but using violence. However, the goals are the same. You are trying to provoke the enemy to greater and greater, harsher and harsher retaliation. The Israelis are always happy to put their heads in the noose and do exactly what the Palestians want them to do. Their goal at least short term is not the defeat of Israel but to sever ties between Israel and the rest of the world but primarily the US. This will happen if he Israelis can be provoked into killing thousands of Palestinians. Hell everybody is so tired of this crap they are getting pretty mad about 10-15. As long as the US is willing to support Israel they are unbeatable. However, alone they can be handled, because as formidable as their military is on a regional basis it is nothing compared to what the US has or could muster. We are the ones that defend them, not their military.

[Guest Frank Zappa Mask]

<<<"I think we should. I think that we have not only a right but a responsibility to get involved. I think we should make it crystal goddamn clear that you do NOT kill Americans. Americans must be free to walk the earth from one end to another with the absolute confidence that if anyone from any country harms so much as one hair on their heads, our armed forces will visit upon them a retribution that is certain, swift, and cruel. There should be no room for discussion. None. Whoever you're fighting, whatever has been done to you, whatever your values, whoever the fucking hell you are, harm one American citizen - just one - and you will pay a terrible price. For us to be secure as a nation, and for us, the government, to fulfill our primary duty to our citizens, this message must be understood by all countries and all peoples. Do what you want to whoever you want; we'll deal with it case by case. But don't ever harm one of ours. That should neither be forgotten nor forgiven.">>>

 

-Marney, by your logic, hon, if a precious American citizen say was "harmed" in Canada or England or France or India or Japan, then these countries would have to pay a "terrible price" from our military. Oh good lord, you must think the whole world shakes in fear at your mighty American pride, babe. Can you tell me why the Greatest Country on God's Green Earth must always proclaim itself the greatest? Can anyone give me a concrete, indisputable, non-patriotic answer why the life of an American citizen is more important than any other life in the world?

[Guest Vagabond]

Can anyone give me a concrete, indisputable, non-patriotic answer why the life of an American citizen is more important than any other life in the world?

Of course they can't or won't anyway. This mindset of if they kill one of ours we kill 100 of theirs is what the Nazi SS did to the peasants when the Partisans would kill one of their soldiers. People in general and thus the country in general are so ethnocentric to the point they care nothing for anybody but US.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

Marney, by your logic, hon, if a precious American citizen say was "harmed" in Canada or England or France or India or Japan, then these countries would have to pay a "terrible price" from our military.

If those countries had sponsored violence against our citizens, yes, they would. What precisely is your objection to this?

Oh good lord, you must think the whole world shakes in fear at your mighty American pride, babe.

And, in fact, the whole world would if we demonstrated conclusively that we would use it whenever necessary.

Can anyone give me a concrete, indisputable, non-patriotic answer why the life of an American citizen is more important than any other life in the world?

To the American government? Because that's our duty.

[Guest J*ingus]

Simply put: America is by far the strongest country on the planet. Therefore, why decide what is right, whether the rest of the world likes it or not.

[Guest Vagabond]

Simply put: America is by far the strongest country on the planet. Therefore, why decide what is right, whether the rest of the world likes it or not.

This sort of arrogant indifference is just the reason why we are hated by most of the planet. We are past the time when we can dictate to people based on our military strength. Our efforts to stop the inevitable gaining of weapons of mass destruction is just our flopping around like a fish trying to prolong it. Once they get them we will have to deal with the world as equals which is something we aren't prepared as a nation to do.

[Guest J*ingus]

Arrogant indifference? Those are the facts as they stand right now. I made no judgement on the moral rightness or wrongness of those facts, I simply stated them. Please refrain from insulting me in such a manner in the future.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

This mindset of if they kill one of ours we kill 100 of theirs is what the Nazi SS did to the peasants when the Partisans would kill one of their soldiers.

If we targeted innocent civilians instead of enemy combatants, if we were engaged in genocide, if we had incinerated six million people after gassing them in shower rooms, your comparison might be relevant. Since we don't, we aren't, and we haven't, it's simply reactionary, hysterical, and obscene.

People in general and thus the country in general are so ethnocentric to the point they care nothing for anybody but US.

Get this through your head. The primary purpose of the American government is to serve the American people and to protect American lives. Claiming that there's something hypocritical about this is about as stupid as you can get. Claiming that there's something "ethnocentric" about this is stupidity on a cosmic scale. America is composed of Jews, Africans, Anglo-Saxons, Celts, Italians, French, Russians, Norwegians, Arabs, and Martians (the Mormons). Defending the lives and liberty of all these ethnicities at once is ethnocentric? I beg your pardon, but how for the love of GOD ALMIGHTY do you define that word?

we will have to deal with the world as equals

No country in the world is our equal. The rest of the world put together is not our equal. Get over it.

[Guest MrRant]

Send MR.T to handle these fools. I pity the fool who mess with the T.