Bobby Heenan interview

[Guest MideonMark]

Interview with Bobby Heenan

 

Interview conducted: August 15, 2002

 

Key:

SG> Steve Gerweck

BH> Bobby "The Brain" Heenan

 

SG> How is your health?

BH> I was operated on the 13th of March. I took my radiation and kemo for six weeks. And they said that I'm fine to go. I have lost fifty pounds.

 

SG> Fifty pounds?

BH> I'm down to 190 pounds.

 

SG> How did the book project come about?

BH> I have been in or around the business since 1961, forty years. I had some thoughts and memories in my head. I was always told that I should write a book. I just never had the time, I was always working. I didn't know how to write a book. I didn't know how to contact people, or how you do it. Then I found this good guy and writer, Steve Anderson. From the 20th of September, I drove up to Minneapolis from Tampa. I spent three days in a motel room with a tape recorder on and talking.

 

SG> I had just finished reading your book, and was sent a copy of Moolah's book.

BH> I don't know how old she is, but her social security number is 4.

 

SG> In what year did you join the WWF?

BH> 1984. I was brought in to manage Jesse Ventura. But he had blood clots in his legs, and was in the hospital. Vince asked me if I knew John Studd, and I said, yeah sure. I knew him from Minneapolis. I was asked if I get along with him and would I like to manage him. I said sure!

 

SG> How do you think you would gotten along managing Ventura?

BH> Fine. I had no trouble with Jesse. He would have done most of the talking, I wouldn't have had to do very much. He wasn't the greatest bump taker in the world, but he never needed anyone to talk for him.

 

SG> In the book, you said you left the WWF at the end of 1993 to pursue acting opportunities and hoped to do commercial endorsements. Did you think you were done with wrestling at that time?

BH> No, I didn't. I just wanted to take a break for awhile. My daughter was going to the University of Alabama. Getting a job in Atlanta made it easier to see her, and I just needed a break anyhow.

 

SG> Do you consider yourself retired?

BH> From wrestling? Um, unless something interesting came up, I would say yes. I'm not saying the current product is wrong or bad, it's just not up to my taste.

 

SG> How did the Confidential piece come about?

BH> Okerlund called me, and asked if I would be interested in being on Confidential, and I said sure. I have no hard feelings. Plus they gave me the opportunity, which was very kind of them, to plug my book a couple of times. Which is unusual since it's not his product. Plus they wrote an article about me in "Raw" magazine. I appreciate that. That was kind of them.

 

SG> When was your last match?

BH> 1991 against Mr. Fuji, and it was a shoot in Nassau, Long Island.

 

SG> Which promoter did you work for in Japan?

BH> Baba.

 

SG> So you were working for Baba when you injured your neck in 1983?

BH> Yeah. It happened in a match with me and Harley Race against Haku and a guy named Onita. They did the leg drop on landed on my face, which injured my head.

 

SG> Where you managing Race at the time?

BH> No, I was the only manager they used over there. When I got there, I found out that Abdullah (The Butcher) had jumped to Inoki (New Japan), and Tiger Jet Singh came to Baba (All Japan). They took me to another hotel and told I would manage Jet Singh and wrestle, and they would take care of me. That's what Baba wanted. I did that, and that was the only time I managed, otherwise, I just went over there and worked (wrestled).

 

SG> Did you get booked for Japan through Verne Gagne?

BH> Yes.

 

SG> In the book, you said it was Andre's idea to pass the torch to Hogan. Was that necessary since at the time of Wrestlemania III, Hogan had already held the WWF title for three years.

BH> No, Andre told me that. He just meant that Andre was going to allow Hogan to beat him. He was in more pain, and he knew his time was numbered.

 

SG> In the book, you mention that no one at WCW knew how to book Paul Wight (The Big Show). Does anyone in WWE know how to use him?

BH> Well, obviously, they don't want another giant. He's a natural. He's a huge man. The stuff he could do commercial wise for the company - do movies and tv. He should have never gotten off his feet. He started taking bumps like a 180 pound guy, and in the case of Andre, you never saw him take bumps. You never saw Andre take a back drop, he was a giant. In the case of Wight, he's just a guy who likes to work and take bumps, I guess.

 

SG> Do you consider Wight a talented guy?

BH> To play the part of a giant, you really don't have to be that talented, just don't go down. Make yourself look strong all the time. He can talk, so yeah, I think he's ok.

 

SG> Do you have the name "The Brain" trademarked?

BH> Yes.

 

SG> When do you do that?

BH> A long time ago.

 

SG> How did the XWF stint come about?

BH> They asked me if I would manage Curt Hennig, and I said no, but I would be his sports agent. They tried to run shows around the 30th of December in Milwaukee and Green Bay, but they don't have any tv. The owners, one is in Dallas and the other is in Shreveport, and everything was first class, my checks didn't bounce. They tied to run house shows, but it just didn't work.

 

SG> Was there anything to the racial discrimination case brought against WCW?

BH> I started back in 1965 in the ring, and before that, I was carrying jackets and setting the ring up from 1961 on. There was Bobo Brazil, my gosh, I respected that man. I never heard anyone call him a name or say anything about him to his face or behind his back. He was always a gentleman. Do you remember when they brought in James Brown?

 

SG> Yes I do.

BH> It was in San Francisco. They gave him 10 grand to come out and do that. Our office wanted to surprise the people. If I had James Brown, and I were the boss, I would have had him on radio stations, I would have had him in the Bay Area talking to people, I would have given tickets to kids in the projects. I would have announced to everyone that he was going to be at the pay-per-view, that's how you promote. Not hide a man with the name like James Brown.

 

SG> Were you in the building the night Vince Russo did the "worked/shoot" with Hogan at the Bash at the Beach?

BH> No, by that time, I had lost interest. I really surprised myself. It would work just as hard in Muncie, Indiana as I did at Madison Square Garden. But towards the end there, I just didn't care.

 

SG> When did they take you off Nitro?

BH> July of 2000.

 

SG> In the book, you stated that you never wrestled or managed a woman. Was there a woman you would have liked to either manage or wrestle?

BH> I would have liked to wrestle a woman just for the fact I could say that I did it. A woman I wanted to manage? Yeah, a two headed woman!

 

SG> A two headed woman? (laugh) How about a bearded woman?

BH> Nah, that wouldn't be believeable.

 

SG> Who was the greatest wrestler of all time? And the greatest tag team of all time?

BH> That's hard to say. That would be like asking who was the greatest actor of all time? They are all in different situations. I would have to say Andre was the greatest wrestler, because if he didn't want to have a match with you, there was no match. But the greatest wrestler is Hulk Hogan. He put more people in the seats. I have never saw the fans react to anyone like him - the man, the character, and there is nobody like him. He wrote the forward for the book, and that is the greatest compliment anyone has ever paid me. The Road Warriors were probably the most unique team when they would come out with the spikes. As for timing and tag team work, I would say Pat Patterson and Ray Stevens.

 

SG> How about the greatest manager of all time?

BH> That's me! I managed thirty six years. I took more bumps for some of the guys I managed in two minutes that they did in twenty years.

 

SG> I definitely agree. You mentioned Hulk Hogan. I have to ask you what was the real story with him. Was there real friction between you two?

BH> We worked all the people. I played my character to hilt. I was a heel inside and outside of that ring.

 

SG> Was there anyone you missed out on managing?

BH> Buddy Rogers. Maybe, the (Original) Sheik. I could have worn a turban and had pointed shoes.

 

SG> If you could manage anyone today, who would it be?

BH> Brock Lesnar. Except I would call him something else, maybe the Bruiser.

 

SG> The new Bruiser?

BH> Nah, fans today don't remember who the Bruiser was.

 

SG> Tony Shiavone?

BH> He doesn't like wrestling, doesn't like the wrestlers, and hates the fans. During the commercial breaks, Tenay and I would talk. He would just put his head down on the desk like a kid and act like he was asleep.

 

SG> What ultimately killed WCW?

BH> Management, the way it was run. I mean Vince McMahon owns the WWF, that's his baby. I would imagine he hasn't had a restful night on sleep since 1975, because he's always up thinking. He works diligently at his business. No one is going to take that away from him, and if they do, they are in for one hell of a fight. In WCW, it was nobody's money, its was Ted's (Turner) money, and he didn't care. And they just spent it. Eric Bischoff, he was just announcer, and he got to boss after they went through Ole Anderson, Dusty Rhodes, and Bill Watts. There was no one left. Nobody wanted the job. He took it, took Ted's money and got Okerlund, Savage, myself, Hogan, Nash, and Hall.

 

SG> Goldberg?

BH> The winning streak was my idea. He's 200-0, keep going. And they said, how long can it go? I said 5,000 and 0, its wrestling, it's not real. Entertain the people. And the person that finally beats him, wow. Then he starts the streak. It's great marketing and merchandise. Plus, he's Jewish. I don't think there ever had been a Jewish champion. They love that for commercials and speaking engagements. He played pro ball. He has the credentials, and yet, they beat him.

 

SG> What was your reaction when Vince bought WCW?

BH> The worlds biggest garage sale. I think he bought it just so that he could have the film library, so he could make video cassettes.

 

SG> Was there anything that could have saved WCW?

BH> The thing that probably could have saved WCW was a merger with WWF. But I think there is something in Vince's contract with TNN that he couldn't be on two different networks. At least it was like that once when he was on USA (Network). He probably could have saved it for awhile, but that would have just been a lifesaver, not a full rescue.

 

SG> Why do you feel Vince hasn't brought you back?

BH> I think its because there is no place for me. I just don't think I fit into anything he wants to do. Maybe its because of my speech, and I still can't say a few words. But as far as having a problem with him or heat, I don't feel I have any. I just feel the direction they are going I don't fit in right now. Its no big deal.

 

SG> So its possible at some point they could give you a call, and you would go back?

BH> I'm not sure I would want to work there every week. I wouldn't mind being an ambassador for them on conventions and toy shows. I don't think I want to travel, and stand in lines at the airports anymore, especially at this stage in my life and with all I have been through. But you never say never. Of course, also, depends on if the money is right. I'm not going to do it for free.

 

SG> I know you weren't working for the WWF at the time, but was your reaction to the 1997 Survivor Series screw job perpetrated by McMahon?

BH> It never affects me, never did. This is only hearsay because I wasn't there. But they said Bret Hart didn't want to do the job for Shawn Michaels, but would do it in the United States. Vince McMahon wanted it done that night. He gave him a finish where he wouldn't have to lose, but then there was another finish where there was a screw job. Bret Hart had it in his contract where he had total control of his character, meaning he could dictate when he was going to drop it. I don't know why anyone would believe one of those contracts exist. I understand what he is saying. But if you know Vince McMahon, he is a businessman. He didn't get to where is now by being nice. He's a ruthless businessman. You have to be ruthless, that's the secret to his success. There has never been anyone in the White House that isn't ruthless, or they wouldn't be there. If he thought for one minute that Vince McMahon was not going to do the best thing for the company, and his wife and children, then he was making a big mistake. He was going to do what was best for himself and the company. That's the decision Vince McMahon made, and that's what happened. Plus, it's wrestling guys; it's not the end of the world!

 

SG> Don't you feel like WCW really dropped the ball with Hart? I mean, he could have been brought in as the WWF champion that never lost the belt.

BH> Of course, they didn't know what to do with him. They weren't businessmen. There wasn't anyone there that knew anything about the wrestling business. We had two or three bookers at two or three different times in a week. But of course, Bret Hart just came off probably the hottest shoot news, take advantage of the situation, but no!

 

SG> In the book, you state that your six years at WCW were the worst six years of your life. Did you ever have the notion of calling Vince and seeing if he would take you back?

BH> When I said it was the worst six years, I meant, working wise and the people you had to deal with. Just the waste of talent and angles, that's what I meant by the worst six years. It was probably the best six years because I had insurance for my family, that I never had before. I broke my neck in '83, and didn't have it worked on until '95 because I didn't have insurance until then. That's why I stayed with them as long as I did, otherwise I would have called Vince. I didn't call Vince because he didn't offer insurance to me.

 

SG> Did they ever approach you in WCW to manage again?

BH> No, because of my neck, I didn't want to take bumps or have anyone touch me. Actually, they asked me to manage Ric Flair and Arn Anderson against Mongo (McMichael) and Kevin Green. And I asked Eric how much money would you be talking about. And he said, I don't know. I don't know how to pay you for this. I just said, tack on another year to my contract to the deal we had, and he said ok. So here is an executive that don't know how to pay you. So, what does that tell you?

 

SG> Do you have any professional regrets?

BH> Yeah. I wish I would have had the brains, and the wrestlers would have had the brains to stand up for ourselves, and maybe get some benefits and insurance, because the guys have nothing. We were scared of getting back-balled and we didn't.

 

Name Association:

 

SG> Ric Flair.

BH> Fabulous.

 

SG> Vince McMahon

BH> Very talented.

 

SG> Bret Hart.

BH> A nice man.

 

SG> Eric Bischoff.

BH> Failure.

 

SG> Bobby "The Brain" Heenan.

BH> Greatest manager of the century.

 

Bobby "The Brain" Heenan is currently available for independent bookings and personal appearances through www.inyourfacebookings.com

[Guest HartFan86]

Thanks for posting, really good INT. I can't wait for his book to come out.

[Guest Madmartigan21]

I saw the book at Barnes and Noble the other day.

 

Has anybody read it yet? I want to if its any good, and if Bobby is REALLY honest or not.