Kawada/Kobashi draw 2

[Guest Johnny Blaze]

Hey, I recently heard Keith call this the best match he'd ever seen, period. My question is, is it really that good? If not, what would you say was better??

[Guest Dangerous A]

I am not sure about that. I own the 1/95 1 hour draw and while it was good, I rate it at just ***1/2. My question is: Is the second hour draw any better?

[Guest Coffin Surfer]

I'am in the minority in that I like the 1/95 draw, I just don't see why they couldn't have Kawada go over Kobashi with the Powerbomb at the end.

 

The second draw(10/18/96) isn't as good either, so If you don't like the 1/95 match stay clear of the second draw. While the first draw was slow, it did have great pacing. While the second match is even slower and has horrible pacing. They spend most of the match laying around to eat up the clock. Kawada does take one of the sickest Backdrop Driver bumps I've ever seen, landing right on the top of his head without catching himself.

 

If you want to see great Kawada/Kobashi matches check out 4/25/93 or 6/12/98. Keith must have missed those.

[Guest Jubuki]

Keith's a goof - has no business talking about some of the stuff he talks about. Giving copious amounts of praise to 2001 Akiyama and/or Mutoh is a sign of madness.

[Guest Dangerous A]

"Giving copious amounts of praise to 2001 Akiyama and/or Mutoh is a sign of madness."

 

 

True, but when most of what you've been watching is WWE from 2001-present, you might actually go mad.

[Guest Jubuki]

INDEED.

 

It's not to say that either match is terrible, either - just that the source of a comment should always be considered before considering the content of the remark.

[Guest BigTim2002]

Giving copious amounts of praise to 2001 Akiyama and/or Mutoh is a sign of madness.

 

Hey, the Akiyama/Misawa GHC Title Match was damn good from where I sit, and his match at the end of 2000 with Kenta, who was dwindling down, was choice. I agree with you on Mutoh though, because if I wanna watch somebody do the same four moves every god damn night, I'd watch Rocky.

[Guest wolverine]

Misawa-Akiyama was crap.

 

The two Kawada-Kobashi draws aren't bad, but they're fucking boring. Besides the matches CS mentioned (4/14/93 and 6/12/98), you should see their 10/23/93 one too. Really great match. I loved watching those guys in '93 because they were really in top form.

[Guest BigTim2002]

How was Misawa/Akiyama crap? I'm not talking about their restart in the tourney to crown the GHC champ, I'm talking about when Akiyama won the title.

[Guest wolverine]

It's a bad match.

 

Maybe compared to WWF it's great, but when you compare it to what they've done in the past (even the 2000 match, which I didn't really like the last time I saw it), it's not even close. Misawa was gone beyond belief in terms of athletic ability, relying basically on his elbows the whole match, and nothing more. Dumb spots like the blown TD off the top rope didn't help. And Akiyama showed me that he's turned into a huge disappointment, underachieving big time. No fire, no motivation, nothing. 1996 has come and gone, and with it went Akiyama's good work.

[Guest BigTim2002]

OK...but do you think his match with an equally gone Kenta Kobashi at the end of 2000 was just as bad?

[Guest XdojimeX]

"I'am in the minority in that I like the 1/95 draw, I just don't see why they couldn't have Kawada go over Kobashi with the Powerbomb at the end."

 

Agreed. I didn't think it was boring at all, excellent in fact. I'd have trouble rating June '98 higher, they're about even for what they accomplished IMO. From a booking standpoint Kawada probably should of gone over with the powerbomb somewhere in the last 5 minutes or so. But as a broadway I think it's a tremendous match, an easy MOTYC in a stacked 1995. Flair vs. Steamer's 56 minute epic has nothing on this as far as marathons go IMO. The second time I watched I was really impressed how they paced the first half without losing the crowd and the endless run to the finish without burning themselves or the audience out. This was an audience conditioned to the 30-35 minute battle but the near falls still had as much juice at the 55 minute mark as they did at the 35. Certainly one of the more slower-paced mid-90 classics from AJ but they didn't tip you off "we're going 60 here so get comfy" like the tag a week later. It built and built and built. And outside of the last 3 minutes Kawada kept Kobashi pretty much reigned in through the whole thing. As far as singles matches go I don't think there's been a better worked 60 minutes that I know of. In the last 20 years anyway.

 

Too bad the in-house production stunk though. The lighting was really bad. Thank god All Japan stuck to VAP for most of their comm releases.

[Guest wolverine]

"OK...but do you think his match with an equally gone Kenta Kobashi at the end of 2000 was just as bad?"

 

No, I thought that was a very good match. I rated it ***3/4. Kind of longish though. The Misawa-Akiyama I'd rate in the ** range.

[Guest godthedog]

Hey, I recently heard Keith call this the best match he'd ever seen, period. My question is, is it really that good? If not, what would you say was better??

where did you hear this???

 

he must have seen it very recently, as he's been plugging flair/steamboat nonstop for the last 4 years, & if he had a new 'favorite match ever' he'd be plugging it left & right.

[Guest Johnny Blaze]

It was just the other day. I think44f2was a mail bag or something.

[Guest godthedog]

Do you have any opinions on what could be the WORLD's greatest match ever? You stated in this rant, that the Flair/Steamboat match is North America's greatest match, so what match surpassed it outside of North America? Just wondering.

 

I have a compilation tape with a one-hour draw between Kenta Kobashi and Toshiaki Kawada from Oct 1996 that is probably the greatest match I've ever seen and ever will.

wow. i'll be damned.

[Guest wolverine]

Tabe really likes that 10/96 match referred to. He said it's the best match of 1996 on his site.

 

I don't agree.

[Guest Jubuki]

I've got the 10/96 match sitting around somewhere at home, but I didn't bring it with me to school. I suspect I'll have to grab the tape the next time I head back for something. But I have to wonder how good it could really be when their 5/96 match was simply 'good' and the Taue TC switch was fun mostly because of Taue. The bits of Kobashi's work I've seen from '96 vacillate between nutty and excellent, so I suppose it is possible he could push himself, at least for a while in the match. Having a non-finish finish never helps too much, either, as I can only think of 2 draws offhand I'd even remotely consider for a 'best match' discussion (Tamura/Kohsaka & the 10/95 AJ tag).

[Guest Coffin Surfer]

I've got through the entire 10/96 match just once, and I don't remeber liking it. It has some cool high spots, but the majority of the match is laying around with no continous action and the ending is no where near as dramatic as 1/95. It does have LOL spot near the begining, where Kobashi is waiting for Kawada to get up so he can murder him with the Burning Lariat, but Kawada never gets up.

[Guest wolverine]

Probably not the best, but the draw I had the most fun watching was the Ito-Momoe match from July 8, 2001. It kicks ass. ****1/4

[Guest BigTim2002]

I wanna know if SK has seen the Kawada/Misawa 6/3/94 that is an automatic ***** in like anybody's book. Maybe that match will change his mind.

[Guest Jubuki]

He's seen it. Remember, operative acronym: TNAFT.

[Guest wolverine]

Do you honestly think that everyone would rate that match ***** the first time they see it? That's quite a stretch.

 

From personal experience, this match preceeded 12/6/96 on the tape, and the tag match rocked the world, while the single match didn't - until I got loads of additional Misawa vs. Kawada matches. At that point I realized its greatness.....

[Guest Jubuki]

I expect you're not directing that at me.

[Guest wolverine]

No, I'm not. That wouldn't make any sense.