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Guest Mikey2Dope

A rant on people that call bands Sellouts

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Guest Mikey2Dope

After reading a lot of message boards and talking to teenagers I know at work I've come to a conclusion: a lot of people are idiots. I'm so sick of hearing/reading "_____ punk band sold out cause they now have their videos and music on the radio" all the while the band is playing the same music that these "fans" used to enjoy cause they weren't popular(which makes you an ignorant jackass IMO). I guess people might have their own view of a what a sellout is but here is mine: "A sellout is someone that signs a big record contract and then totally changes their music style to what that record producer wants to hear." It just pisses me off when I hear people say bands sold out because they,1)play videos on MuchMusic and MTV 2)they play their songs on the radio 3)they just signed a big record contract. I asked a bunch of skaterboarders the other day at worj why they thought Sum 41 were sellouts and their answer: "Dude did you see them on MuchMusic?!?" "Yeah so? "Man they're on MuchMusic!" That was basically the jist of their argument. I'm not saying everybody is like that but they're a lot of people like them out there. People who do not judge them for musical content but their status in pop culture. These guys did not quit their day jobs to become broke. I know of not one musician who doesn't want to be big. It's why it's the career path they took. It's like the lowlifes who called Metallica sellouts because they cut their hair. I mean if you're listening to music cause of how the band looks then yeah good for you but most people don't(well that might explain Britney Spears). My point is if you're calling a band a sellout cause they're on tv/radio and not because of the musical content you need to give your head a shake. It don't bother me if my favorite band shows up on Friends or even an awards show just as long as they're playing the same music I like to listen to.

 

Thoughts?

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Guest Youth N Asia

I think if a band you like makes it mainstream you should be happy for them as long as the music doesn't suffer.

 

You can't call someone who's trying to get financial stability a sellout.

 

BUT...Blink 182's music pretty much sucks IMO compaired to Dude Ranch and Buddah...I'm glad they're doing well, I just wish they still made the kind of music that first drew me to the band

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Guest Shaved Bear

like for example, SOAD was awesome 3 years ago when no one knew who the hell they were, and they are popular now, and are sitll awesome

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Guest Kotzenjunge

Anyone who signs a record contract is a sellout almost. Surely they have to change somehow if they're really great/bad/controversial, in order to get their music out and, you know, make money.

 

To me, no band is a sellout, because I don't care.

 

Fo sheez,

Kotzenjunge

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Guest evenflowDDT

I only call a band a sell-out if they get popular and their musical quality suffers, which, unfortunately, many times it has... whether that's because of them actually being "forced" to change their music for the producers or because my own tastes have simply matured is anyone's guess.

 

Example: No Doubt... I like a couple of singles from Tragic Kingdom ("Just A Girl", "Spiderwebs"), but none of the singles from Return of Saturn or Rock Steady have appealed to me. This also happened to happen with a huge increase in their popularity... coincidence? Maybe, but I still say they sold out. The same thing goes for Sugar Ray, some of their new songs are OK, but they're too drastically different (in a bad way) from their older songs (except for maybe "Fly") to appeal to me, and since this also coincidentally happened when they became more popular they "sold out".

 

Now, if you think about it, no matter what you think, calling someone a "sell out" doesn't accomplish anything. It means the band in question has more fans than ever, so if it loses one like you, guess what, IT DOESN'T MATTER 'CUZ I GOT A MILLION MORE GROUPIES, JUNIOR! Also, if anything, if a band "sells out" their music and message (if they have one) becomes even more accessible, so just because you don't like their new music doesn't mean it's a bad thing. However, I can also see how someone can vent about newer songs from a "sell out band" being shoved down their throat on the radio all the time because, well, it's popular.

 

So... to me the jury's out on this one. When bands sell out it's annoying, but there's not really anything you can do about it either, because they'll have legions of new fans to support them every step of the way. And hell, they might be happy, and everyone deserves the right to be happy... I mean they just changed their music, it's not like they killed anyone or anything.

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Guest cartman

So I guess most people on this board love music by bands that arent well known in the "Mainstream"

 

Funny too since 75% of bands that dont have any publicity in the "Mainstream" absolutely SUCK in the first place. Thats why they arent IN the "Mainstream"

 

Just because the majority of this board is elitist doesnt mean your all the absolute perfect judge of musical talent. I listen to music, of any kind, that appeals to me personally just like everyone else SHOULD. Just because a band/group/musician supposedly "sells out" and yo you people "sucks" doesnt mean they actually suck. If they really did suck and had no talent whatsoever they wouldnt be liked by so many people.

 

I dont wanna hear "Most people are too stupid to differentiate btween good and bad music" either because lemme tell ya somethin. Including myself, noone on this board is any better than everyone else in this world in the long run. I'd like alot of you to step back and think about yourselves and how Elitist some of you really are. it's staggering.

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Guest KingOfOldSchool
Funny too since 75% of bands that dont have any publicity in the "Mainstream" absolutely SUCK in the first place. Thats why they arent IN the "Mainstream"

:rolleyes:

 

Because we all know it has nothing to do with simplistic radio-friendly hooks and lyrics... As well as the verbal blowjobs that are given out by the dimwits at MTV, allowing this music to appeal to the suburban mallrat who'll never be exposed to anything under the radar.

 

It's all subjective, true, but explain to me how a band like Limp Bizkit got to the mainstream. When they also have simplistic pop hooks, and lyrics that could be written by a 14-year old, thus, aiming for the 14-year olds. IMO, they "suck".

 

I'm not the most educated when it comes to stuff in the underground either, but c'mon. That statement of yours is a shoddy argument, and silly when you get right down to it. Many talented bands toil the small clubs, who are just as talented as your mainstream fare. But because mainstream artists have a look or a simple poppy sound, they're the ones to recieve the recognition.

 

As for the rest of the sell-out argument... I'll say that a band becomes a sell-out when they compromise or drastically change their integrity and/or sound for a much thicker paycheck and more record sales. Not as if I care ::too much:: about that anyway, unless it's an extreme case.

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Guest converge241

a sellout is when bands will slam their fans and the style after it becomes unpopular

 

(motley crue and skid row did this when hair metal went bye-bye)

 

AND THEN GODDAMN CASH IN ON THE NOSTALGIA OF IT LATER WHEN THEIR NEW DIRECTIONS FAIL!!!

 

and they say "oh we love this music"

no matter how you slice it they are flat out lying.

 

also see Dead Kennedys and Misfits reforming without their original singers. I like graves and all but its still wrong. and no Jello, COME ON!

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Guest cartman

Not all there Mainstream groups have that special "look" ya know. I mean christ there are some really REALLY popular radio bands that are just plain nasty, and to give myself a bit of a retraction I cant even admit that 70% of "Mainstream" groups are that good anyways.

 

My total point was STOP BEING ELITISTS and enjoy the music YOU like, no need to bash something you dont like because theres always people that will like whatever you hate. I cant stand Dave Mathews Band...I just dont like their music style and that's MY preference but I wont say that they suck, because if they truly sucked they wouldnt be so friggin popular now would they?

 

Inversely just because a band is popular doesnt make them necessarily talented. I dont think Limp Bizkit is "talented" but I do enjoy the music and the beats. Not alot of people like Marylin Manson but I happen to think his stuff is very good, and I believe in MY OPINION that he is a talented music artist. But yet people tell me how much he sucks all the time.

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Guest Cerebus The Aardvark

Bands don't sell out. They stop writing good songs, or they continue writing good songs.

 

That is all.

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Guest Incandenza

It's already been said, but it's worth repeating: You only sell out when you change the quality of your material for the sole purpose of reaching a broader audience. I don't care if a band signs to a major label, nor do I care if they license their songs to be used in commercials, as long as they continue to make good music, then everything's fine. There's nothing wrong with wanting to sell more records and reach more people, as long as you remain true to yourself.

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Guest NoCalMike

Metallica did sell out. I can give two shits about the length of their hair, but they changed and softened their rock style in order to pass the buck. The record companie pressured them into it, and instead of telling Elektra to fuck off, they gave in and changed in order to sell a few more albums. I don't care if music is mainstream or not, if I like it, I like it, but Metallica has sucked for 10 years, I wish everyone would just forget about them.

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Guest Kinetic
So I guess most people on this board love music by bands that arent well known in the "Mainstream"

 

Funny too since 75% of bands that dont have any publicity in the "Mainstream" absolutely SUCK in the first place. Thats why they arent IN the "Mainstream"

 

Just because the majority of this board is elitist doesnt mean your all the absolute perfect judge of musical talent. I listen to music, of any kind, that appeals to me personally just like everyone else SHOULD. Just because a band/group/musician supposedly "sells out" and yo you people "sucks" doesnt mean they actually suck. If they really did suck and had no talent whatsoever they wouldnt be liked by so many people.

 

I dont wanna hear "Most people are too stupid to differentiate btween good and bad music" either because lemme tell ya somethin. Including myself, noone on this board is any better than everyone else in this world in the long run. I'd like alot of you to step back and think about yourselves and how Elitist some of you really are. it's staggering.

That whole argument is really asinine. Do you realize that every radio station in American is owned by one of four major media conglomerates and that playlists are more or less uniform for the entire country? That allows for less than 1% of all people currently making music to get the sort of exposure necessary to actually make a living from it. And the standards of what's considered "commercial music" are so narrow that no one who isn't playing the sort of music that these record companies and MTV deem acceptable can get any sort of mainstream exposure. It's a miracle along the lines of Jesus walking on water that anyone actually makes it in the music business.

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Guest The Metal Maniac
The record companie pressured them into it, and instead of telling Elektra to fuck off, they gave in and changed in order to sell a few more albums.

 

I dunno about you, but if I had Metallica under contract, after the succes the Black Album was, I wouldn't be saying "Ok, time to change your style." If I was a greedy record executive, my first thought would be "Hey, do that album again."

 

I'm sorry, but I've always found it silly that people think Metallica sold out just for the money, when really, the guaranteed money was in staying true to the Black Album style, which did extremely well. If you have a formula that works, you stick with it; You don't invent a new one.

 

You see, that is what I find is the problem with labelling bands "Sell-outs". You don't know that.

 

I'll keep using Metallica for an example here...

 

5 years.

 

5 YEARS.

 

That was the distance between Black and Load. That's an AWFUL long time.

 

I dunno about you, but in 5 years of my life, my musical tastes took a DRASTIC swing.

 

I find it funny that people don't seem to realize that not everyone likes the same music forever. People's tastes can begin to differ after a while.

 

And so, with different musical tastes, people can go and record albums that sound *gasp* different from their original albums.

 

In short, I don't think that a change in musical style, coupled with a growth in popularity is always a guarantee that a band "sold out". When I hear a band member say "Yeah, we're in it for the money now", then I'll agree that they sold out.

 

Until then, it's really hard to judge.

 

And just to show how hard it can be to judge whether someone has sold out or not...

 

Slayer is often brought up in debates about sellouts, because they've never changed their style.

 

It could easily be argued that Slayer has then, "sold-out". They've stifled their musical growth to guarantee record sales to a select group of people.

 

Much like how all the alleged "sell outs" change their music style to sell records to a select group of people. The same thing, only backwards.

 

See what I'm saying? It's really too hard to call...

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Guest CoreyLazarus416

Metal_Maniac, you just summed up my entire argument that Metallica didn't sell-out. Please let me plow your ass with my ULTRACOCK OF METALHOOD~!~

 

 

 

Ummm...I didn't just say that...Rob Halford possessed me, I swear!

 

 

 

Anyways, here's my definiton of a sell-out:

A person that changes his/her beliefs, public views on a certain topic, and/or overall style in exchange for monetary gain.

 

So, using that definition...

Bands that DIDN'T sell-out, but are constantly called sell-outs:

Metallica, Megadeth, System Of A Down, Ozzy Osbourne, The Misfits.

 

Bands that DID sell-out, but are rarely accused of doing such:

Pantera, Machine Head, Motley Crue, Marilyn Manson (trust me, his hardcore fans don't think he did).

 

Hell, I'll even give a reason for each band as to why they did/didn't sell-out in my eyes. First, the DIDN'T...

Metallica: Each album has an overall different sound, with the only 2 albums even sounding similar being Load and ReLoad, which is excuseable as ReLoad was mostly a collection of songs that never made it onto Load that the band wanted to release.

Megadeth: Risk sucked, and Dave Mustaine admits it. He wanted to explore his true musical origins in Irish folk music-oriented rock, and did so. Mustaine is the ultimate ANTI-sell-out, as he admits when he does a shitty project.

System Of A Down: So, suddenly a band learns to play their instruments, and learns about MELODIES and HARMONIES, and their sell-outs?

Ozzy Osbourne: His style has changed over the years to fit his aging self. He still plays the classics in concert, much like Metallica does, to please his hardcore fans.

The Misfits: Jerry is still wearing the same boots, pants, gaunts, and girdle (sp.?) he did in '83. They changed their style because **GASP!** Jerry and Doyle found a guitarist that could do more than just play annoying 2-chord songs.

 

Bands that DID sell-out:

Pantera: Probably the oddest case, as Pantera has always been selling-out to try and remain underground. Whenever a new trend appears in the underground metal world, Phil and co. capitalize on it.

Machine Head: Too easy. Went from pure thrash metal to a rap/rock band in the span of an album, with a year difference between the two albums.

Motley Crue: Generation Swine, anyone?

Marilyn Manson: He released Mechanical Animals just 2 years after his angst-ridden Antichrist Superstar, and became ultra-popular. It's obvious his songs on Mechanical Animals were written to be more commercially acceptable, and he admits that. Yet it's actually his best album...

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Guest treble charged
Megadeth: Risk sucked, and Dave Mustaine admits it. He wanted to explore his true musical origins in Irish folk music-oriented rock, and did so. Mustaine is the ultimate ANTI-sell-out, as he admits when he does a shitty project.

So, you're saying that they didn't sell out because they admitted to making a bad record? Now, I don't follow metal and/or Megadeth that closely, so I can't comment directly on them, but someone who does 'sell-out' can as easily admit to making a shitty album as someone who never did.

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Guest El Psycho Diablo

Y'know what? If I had a band, and somebody was offering me a record contract..that I'd get paid for, I'd take it, too.

 

"Selling Out" is way overused. I don't care if a band sold out, or didn't. I really don't. The only thing that matters to me is the music. If it's a good song, I'll play it. If not, I'll avoid it.

 

"Well... _______ sold out! They SUCK!"

 

The internet music scene is kind of wierd..particularly people who like a band initally, but hate them once they become mainstream.

 

Whatever.

 

I don't bash other people's music tastes, and I find they don't bash mine. If somebody likes something I don't, that's fine. *shrugs* I avoid music boards..because all they do is turn into huge arguements that lose all meaning.

 

Music is different for everybody, that's why. Some people may like the same band, but nobody has the same tastes.

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Guest The Metal Maniac
Jerry and Doyle found a guitarist that could do more than just play annoying 2-chord songs.

 

But...Doyle IS the guitarist...

 

Frankly, I'd say their changes in their style amount more to the lack of Danzig, who wrote pretty much everything when he was still in the Misfits, and the dozen or so years Jerry and Doyle were trying to keep in music, but weren't allowed to be the Misfits.

 

Other then that though, I pretty much agree with everything you said.

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Guest dilk bathoon

if i was a musician, i would sell out in a second. why play music if your not trying to be popular and make money?

 

besides, the artist life-span in the music biz is so freakishly small, that you'd be a retard not to make as much cash as you can during your 15 minutes.

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Guest The Metal Maniac
why play music if your not trying to be popular and make money?

 

Because they enjoy it.

 

Hell, I play drums in my room every day. I don't think I'll ever make a career of it, but it's fun.

 

Maybe they just like the sound of their own music.

 

Oh, and your lifespan is only small if A) You suck or B) You're stuck in some kinda trendy rut.

 

Iron Maiden has been releasing albums for about 22 years. Metallica's on about 20. Pantera has been on a major label for about 12 years, and they were in the indies for a while before that.

 

And that's not even scratching the surface. The bottom line is, if you're good, you can stick around for quite some time.

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Guest dilk bathoon

i agree that a love for music should be the first reason for playing, but if your aspiring musician then sometimes you've gotta play what pays the bills. and if the style your playing isn't making you a living, its probably because you/your style suck.

 

and while metallica and pantera have been around forever, theres thousands of talented bands that never got past playing in their friends living rooms. they were most likely just never in the right place at the right time like the few talented bands that do make it.

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Guest The Metal Maniac

I don't think it's fair to say that any genre "sucks" because it doesn't sell as well as the next.

 

Like, heavy metal and such genres may be more underground then rap and whatnot, but just because they don't sell as many records, that doesn't mean they suck.

 

I see where you're coming from though.

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Guest Mattdotcom

Selling out...ha. Man, it's my dream to sell out. If I ever get famous, I'm going to just go around sayin "I can't wait to sell out.".

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Guest The Metal Maniac

"Oh, I sold out all right....

 

I sold out the Garden, I sold out the Silverdome, hell, I sold out every building in the country!"

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Guest NoCalMike

Ok the worst argument ever is to even bring up the Black album.....Umm excuse me but listen to "And Justice & for all" and the albums before it. The black album is the point they sold out. They went from a thrash band, to just a boring nu-metal shitband....Why do you think rock stations all over america hail Metallica as this and that, yet you only hear their music from the newer years on the playlists? They know that more people can accept and will buy "Until it sleeps" Than, Battery or Sanitarium. Like I said before. I don't care about anyone who cuts their hair, it has nothing to do with the music. I am talking about the MUSIC and the ATTITUDE that goes along with these situations.

 

I don't need Lars Ulrich trying to sell me about how great Metallica playing with a Symphony is. That was just a novelty gimmick to sell as much as it could for the moment. If I was there live it would probobaly be cool for the moment, but it is something I would never use as repeated listening.

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Guest NoCalMike

Oh and for Slayer, actually see they told numerous record labels to fuck off. They started with Def America or whatever it is called, and then they got a contract with a bigger record company that tried to get them to change their music to sell to a broader audience, so what did Slayer do? They told them to fuck off and went back to Def America where they could play the music THEY wanted to play.

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Guest dilk bathoon

hey, while we're talking about bands not selling out, we forgot about fugazi!

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Guest CoreyLazarus416

Metal_Maniac, I always get the members' positions confused...FUCK! I know the names (Jerry Only, Doyle, Dr. CHUD, Graves), but I always mix up CHUD and Doyle. Argh...

 

But yeah. A band can be talented and not make it big, dilk bathoon. Ever heard the DropKick Murphys? Excellent Oi! music, and among the best bands Boston has ever produced (yeah, fuck you, Aerosmith). Do they really make a decent living from touring? Yeah, but they know they can't base their lives off of playing music they want to play, so they're volunteer firefighters on the side.

 

And how is The Black Album a nu-metal album? Nothing nu-metal about it. It's a straight-up HEAVY METAL album, with a song or two that I (personally) think just didn't make the cut for ...And Justice For All, namely "The Struggle Within."

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Guest dilk bathoon

actually, i do know DropKick Murphys because their on hellcat records, which my friend is absolutly obsessed with.

 

anyways, everyone here poses some good points, as it really is a three dimentional subject.

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