Ultimates 6

[Guest gthureson]

Six issues in and they are already getting into Hank Pym beating the crap out of Wanda? No wasting time there, I guess. I'm wondering if they are going to stick to canon and blame it on Hank exposing himself to all sorts of weird-ass chemicals so he can be a superhero, or go with a bit of realism and just blame it on him being a jackass.

 

Thor...not sure if I like New Age socially conscious Thor yet. He has some stuff to like about him, but of all the characters that needed an 'edge', you'd think the Norse God of Thunder would get one before Banner.

 

Speaking of Banner, it appears the attitude towards him gets to change. Which is good. I like Bruce. Though I hope they don't stick with 'Bruce keeps shooting himself with serum to become the Hulk.' Banner is the Hulk, the Hulk is Banner. Some things don't need to change. Hopefully, third time will be a charm, and after that he won't need it anymore. Though I do kind of dig that Hulk manifests Banner's primal urges...all of them, not just unthinking rage.

 

Cap is cool. He is still upright, honest, and a hero. But he has been stripped of some of the bullshit that has weighed him down on occassions.

 

Tony Stark has a brain tumour? Well, I guess it had to be something, seeing as its getting to far removed from Viet Nam for him to be a relatively young man and still a vet. And five years means you don't actually have to deal with it actually killing him for awhile. But if the series gets into its third year (which it should. Its been quite good, though its only six issues in so far), they will need a Rhodey as a possible successor.

 

 

Speculation:

 

Well, who is going to be the first actual villain?

 

With Hank going slightly nuts, I can see him building an Ultron soon. Though, if I was writing this thing, I might start dropping hints of one of the shadow organizations. Losing the comics code and being able to do some edgy stuff, you can make something like AIM or HYDRA people to be feared, and require costumed yokels to deal with.

 

Hopefully it won't be the Red Skull. Not this early.

[Guest areacode212]

I'd prefer it if Hank was just a natural asshole/psychotic instead of relying on something like chemicals or evil mind control. I just find it interesting that a lot of his attitude problems come from some kind of inferiority complex. Is Wasp's last name still Van Dyne?

 

I like Bono Thor, because a left-wing activist superhero isn't something you see very often in comics, and so far, it works oddly well with him. It's a good contrast from his MU counterpart. I mean, Thor as a peacenik? Delicious. Plus, we're spared having to read his Asgardian vernacular.

 

I too was wondering who the first villain would be. With two total bastards on the team, they don't seem to need one right now, but eventually, I'd like to see a HYDRA terrorist organization, but we've already seen a more realistic version over in Bendis's Elektra.

 

Maybe a new Masters of Evil. I'm interested in seeing how twisted Millar's portrayal of a super-villain team would be.

[Guest starvenger]

Six issues in and they are already getting into Hank Pym beating the crap out of Wanda?  No wasting time there, I guess. I'm wondering if they are going to stick to canon and blame it on Hank exposing himself to all sorts of weird-ass chemicals so he can be a superhero, or go with a bit of realism and just blame it on him being a jackass.

You mean Janet, right? I think it's gonna be a bit of both - Hank wants to have the attention, and whether it's as a hero or brilliant scientist (preferably both), it doesn't really matter to him.

 

Cap is cool. He is still upright, honest, and a hero. But he has been stripped of some of the bullshit that has weighed him down on occassions.

Yeah, the fact that they made Cap a little less of a boy scout has done wonders here. Great makeover.

 

Is Wasp's last name still Van Dyne?

Prolly not, unless they run an adoption angle. She's doesn't seem to independently wealthy, so presumably she got to be a microbiologist the old-fashioned way.

[Guest gthureson]

Whoops. Yeah, Janet, not Wanda.

 

Wanda shouldn't show up for a good long time. Though, I'd mark huge for the Scarlet Witch.

[Guest Vyce]

I doubt they'll kill off Stark. We won't have to worry about that for a while now, but even so, it's more of a nice plot device to explore, before finding some sort of miracle cure for him.

 

I doubt they'd move into something as heavy as Ultron just yet. That should take a LOT of build. Ultimates, of all of the Ultimate titles, strikes me as the most "realistic". Millar tries to make the book more like a movie, a cinematic experience, than a superhero comic book. I'd like Millar to take his time with Ultron, because when that storyline hits, it could be MASSIVE.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

I HATE Ultimates 6. All Miller is doing, is taking cherished characters and pissing on them. None of the Ultimates feel remorseful for a situation which they helped cause and destroyed many lives. Heaven forbid they feel any moral repurcussions.This is like some lame "Authority" spin-off but instead of real character devolopment we just see one schock scene after another. Miller's style of taking heroes stripping any nobility,and adding flaws, (Makesure to call this "characterization") Is wearing thin.

 

Miller, get off my porch.

[Guest gthureson]

Hey, I'm enjoying Ultimates. Thats my guideline for a good book. Whether I want to read the next issue or not.

 

As far as being remorseful goes, no one in the Marvel universe has even been remorseful, with the possible exception of Spider-man, who seems to feel remorseful over every little thing that goes wrong.

 

The X-Men trash just about everywhere they go. They're don't dwell on it either. They just sit around wondering why everyone hates mutants.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Hey, I'm enjoying Ultimates. Thats my guideline for a good book. Whether I want to read the next issue or not.

 

As far as being remorseful goes, no one in the Marvel universe has even been remorseful, with the possible exception of Spider-man, who seems to feel remorseful over every little thing that goes wrong.

 

The X-Men trash just about everywhere they go. They're don't dwell on it either. They just sit around wondering why everyone hates mutants.

You're forgetting Cap. And Thor. And Banner for that matter.

 

Pretty much everyone worth caring about feels moral repurcussions about thier actions.

 

That's a sign of a ... you know... HUMAN BEING.

 

But in Ultimates everyone's just interested in THEMSELVES. I think it sucks.

[Guest gthureson]

So don't read it.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

So don't read it.

Well, I already bought it so....

 

Plus, this is an OPEN FORUM for DISCUSSION. Just because you don't agree with me, doesn't mean I should shut up and don't read it.

 

Dude, I'll shoot from the hip if I feel like, and I don't give a damn what you think.

[Guest gthureson]

Dude, you can shoot from the hip all you want. I don't really care. You can twist your panties into a knot over a comic book from now til next Tuesday.

 

But if you HATE HATE HATE a book, then it seems like a damn foolish idea to buy it and read it, just so you can complain about it.

 

That just common sense, dude. I didn't like Deadman, so you know what I did? I stopped reading it.

 

I started to HATE HATE HATE X-Men around issue 226. So I stopped reading it. Haven't bought one since, and all things considered, it was probably a wise choice.

 

Trust me, if you HATE HATE HATE a book, then you'll probably be far happier not spending money on it.

 

And you might want to remove that chip from your shoulder, at least in this forum. Its been pretty relaxed in here since these EZ-board days, and I would to be someone who helped bring flaming onto its grounds as well.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Dude, you can shoot from the hip all you want. I don't really care. You can twist your panties into a knot over a comic book from now til next Tuesday.

 

But if you HATE HATE HATE a book, then it seems like a damn foolish idea to buy it and read it, just so you can complain about it.

 

That just common sense, dude. I didn't like Deadman, so you know what I did? I stopped reading it.

 

I started to HATE HATE HATE X-Men around issue 226. So I stopped reading it. Haven't bought one since, and all things considered, it was probably a wise choice.

 

Trust me, if you HATE HATE HATE a book, then you'll probably be far happier not spending money on it.

 

And you might want to remove that chip from your shoulder, at least in this forum. Its been pretty relaxed in here since these EZ-board days, and I would to be someone who helped bring flaming onto its grounds as well.

Well, I already bought the thing, so it's pretty foolish to keep saying "Stop Reading It". I can tell you I won't buy next issue though. Oh and I don't like it, is that just too much for you to handle? You just can't take it that someone has a different opinion, huh?

 

Come at me with a different argument then 'Stop reading It" and maybe I'll give a damn.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Dude, you can shoot from the hip all you want.  I don't really care

Then why do you keep replying?

[Guest gthureson]

Erm....lessee what I can dig up from a few posts up.....

 

This will be paraphrased, of course, to fit my needs:

 

Dude, this an OPEN FORUM FOR DISCUSSION! I'll reply to a response in a thread I started, and I don't give a damn what you think about it.

 

But lets backtrack a bit here. You say you hate Ultimates. So I, being true to my nature which is to merely calmly and quietly solve problems in the simplest manner possible, suggest that you do not read the book that is pissing you off.

 

Which, you Mr.Zzasz, immediately take as some kind of command from the God's above that you are not allowed to read the book or discuss it, and immediately go into full 'The Man ain't gonna tell me what to do, no siree. I'll shoot from the hip and fight the powers that be. Yes I will.'

 

Wherein I, being a passive agressive type who will let matters lie until someone starts getting into my face about something, decide to expand upon my previous thoughts and solution to your hating Ultimates problem, even though I thought they were elegant in their simplicity and brevity, and explain to you that I am not the Comics Gestapo coming down on you and telling you not to post negative comics about a book, but merely suggesting that you not waste your time and money on a book that you so obviously do not enjoy.

 

To which you reply twice, both times apparently trying to agitate, when I have, I thought in a language that you could figure out, so I admit, it was probably more of an attempt to get a rise of you, was telling you:

 

"I don't care if you don't like the book. I am not 15 years old, and hold by the opinion that 'If I like it, everybody must like it'. But if you don't like the book, don't buy it, don't read it."

 

Quoth the Zzasz: I can tell you I won't buy next issue though.

 

You know, if you had merely said this about six posts back, I would have thought, "Fair enough. He doesn't like it, not everyone will."

 

But, alas, you feel the need to tag stuff like this onto it:

 

Again, Zzasz: Oh and I don't like it, is that just too much for you to handle? You just can't take it that someone has a different opinion, huh?

 

Come at me with a different argument then 'Stop reading It" and maybe I'll give a damn.

 

 

---

Why should I try and convince you to like it? You don't like the characters, you don't like the direction. A valid argument. I will continue to read it and enjoy it whether you do or not. I have no interest in trying to tell you what to like.

 

I just have small problems with people reading into statements and pulling interpretations that are not there out of them.

 

Let us return to the crux of this argument, this exchange:

 

Zzasz: I think it sucks.

Me: So stop reading it.

 

My interpretation: Zzasz thinks Ultimate sucks. That is a problem. Here is a solution, stop reading the book. Zzasz's problem with the Ultimates is solved. It will no longer offend his sight.

 

You interpretation: F you man. You can't HANDLE my opinion, can you? I'm a straight shooter, and that just offends you, doesn't it? You are trying to hold my opinion down. You are trying to stifle my thoughts, and I won't stand for that!

 

Ah, the classic confrontation between the paranoid agressive and the passive aggressive. Perhaps, and this is just a suggestion, mind you, I'm not telling you what to think here. Just want to get that out of the way before you decide I can't handle your hearing your opinions again...but just maybe you should, I don't know, calm down a wee bit before you fly off the handle.

 

At least as far as dealing with me.

 

Comments like: Dude, I'll shoot from the hip if I feel like, and I don't give a damn what you think.

 

...just grab me as being far too much of an overreaction. Just a suggestion.

 

Now, to recap:

 

You don't like Ultimates. I do. That is clear, and there is no argument about it. I don't need you to like Ultimates.

 

You are not going to buy the next issue. Hey, thats what I suggested in the first place....

 

Apparently, I can't handle the full force of your opinion. Well, thats arguable, but I'll let it lie.

 

And, that should pretty much wrap up this tangent in the discussion.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Erm....lessee what I can dig up from a few posts up.....

 

This will be paraphrased, of course, to fit my needs:

 

Dude, this an OPEN FORUM FOR DISCUSSION! I'll reply to a response in a thread I started, and I don't give a damn what you think about it.

 

But lets backtrack a bit here. You say you hate Ultimates. So I, being true to my nature which is to merely calmly and quietly solve problems in the simplest manner possible, suggest that you do not read the book that is pissing you off.

 

Which, you Mr.Zzasz, immediately take as some kind of command from the God's above that you are not allowed to read the book or discuss it, and immediately go into full 'The Man ain't gonna tell me what to do, no siree. I'll shoot from the hip and fight the powers that be. Yes I will.'

 

Wherein I, being a passive agressive type who will let matters lie until someone starts getting into my face about something, decide to expand upon my previous thoughts and solution to your hating Ultimates problem, even though I thought they were elegant in their simplicity and brevity, and explain to you that I am not the Comics Gestapo coming down on you and telling you not to post negative comics about a book, but merely suggesting that you not waste your time and money on a book that you so obviously do not enjoy.

 

To which you reply twice, both times apparently trying to agitate, when I have, I thought in a language that you could figure out, so I admit, it was probably more of an attempt to get a rise of you, was telling you:

 

"I don't care if you don't like the book. I am not 15 years old, and hold by the opinion that 'If I like it, everybody must like it'. But if you don't like the book, don't buy it, don't read it."

 

Quoth the Zzasz: I can tell you I won't buy next issue though.

 

You know, if you had merely said this about six posts back, I would have thought, "Fair enough. He doesn't like it, not everyone will."

 

But, alas, you feel the need to tag stuff like this onto it:

 

Again, Zzasz: Oh and I don't like it, is that just too much for you to handle? You just can't take it that someone has a different opinion, huh?

 

Come at me with a different argument then 'Stop reading It" and maybe I'll give a damn.

 

 

---

Why should I try and convince you to like it? You don't like the characters, you don't like the direction. A valid argument. I will continue to read it and enjoy it whether you do or not. I have no interest in trying to tell you what to like.

 

I just have small problems with people reading into statements and pulling interpretations that are not there out of them.

 

Let us return to the crux of this argument, this exchange:

 

Zzasz: I think it sucks.

Me: So stop reading it.

 

My interpretation: Zzasz thinks Ultimate sucks. That is a problem. Here is a solution, stop reading the book. Zzasz's problem with the Ultimates is solved. It will no longer offend his sight.

 

You interpretation: F you man. You can't HANDLE my opinion, can you? I'm a straight shooter, and that just offends you, doesn't it? You are trying to hold my opinion down. You are trying to stifle my thoughts, and I won't stand for that!

 

Ah, the classic confrontation between the paranoid agressive and the passive aggressive. Perhaps, and this is just a suggestion, mind you, I'm not telling you what to think here. Just want to get that out of the way before you decide I can't handle your hearing your opinions again...but just maybe you should, I don't know, calm down a wee bit before you fly off the handle.

 

At least as far as dealing with me.

 

Comments like: Dude, I'll shoot from the hip if I feel like, and I don't give a damn what you think.

 

...just grab me as being far too much of an overreaction. Just a suggestion.

 

Now, to recap:

 

You don't like Ultimates. I do. That is clear, and there is no argument about it. I don't need you to like Ultimates.

 

You are not going to buy the next issue. Hey, thats what I suggested in the first place....

 

Apparently, I can't handle the full force of your opinion. Well, thats arguable, but I'll let it lie.

 

And, that should pretty much wrap up this tangent in the discussion.

That was the most egotisictal, revisionist, self-serving post I've read here. First of all, I reall y don't care what you think of me. I havn't hurt anybody by not liking the Ultimates, YOU on the other hand seem to think that having a badopinion of a book is wrong, and YOU MUST STOP READING IMMEADIATLY! Maybe, i read the whole way through to see if it would get better, or so I could discuss it with the guys here.

 

I've had enough of your callous bullshit. This arguments started because you gave me the same bullshit "Stop reading it." line, instead of actually DISCUSSING the book.

 

Now, you go from repitiion to bold faced lies in the above statement.

 

I'll give you one thing. Watching you revise history to fit your needs is pretty amusing. But it ain't good for much else.

[Guest gthureson]

Not once have I said your opinion on the book is in anyway wrong. Nowhere. I said, "If you don't like it, don't spend money on it."

 

Its not like a TV show you are watching for free. Money is coming out of your pocket for it, and obviously, from your own statements, you don't like it.

 

I said, "Stop reading it." How that is a bullshit line, I don't know, considering THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE DOING ANYWAY!

 

And boy, am I glad you are there to tell me when I am lying. I mean, somehow, you can delve so much information out of 'Stop reading it then' to be able to tell the truth out of every other opinion I might have. Should get into intelligence with mad truth-tellin' skillz like that, they'd find a place for you.

 

And I'm glad you found it to be the most egotistical, self-serving, revisionist post ever. Go big or go home, I always say.

[Guest Vyce]

The X-Men trash just about everywhere they go. They're don't dwell on it either. They just sit around wondering why everyone hates mutants.

That's my biggest problem with the X-Men. Has been for years now.

 

They act as paramilitary soldiers, outside of the law & jurisdiction of pretty much every government on the planet.

 

They cause untold damage & destruction in the name of mutants rights.

 

And at the end of the day, they retreat to their MANSION and their designer clothes and their Shiar technology.

 

And they wonder why humans don't find mutants peachy keen.

 

It makes me beat my head against the wall. It's the furthest thing from Stan Lee's initial premise of having a group of superheroes where were an oppressed minority.

 

I remember back during Claremont's last run on the books....there was an issue that had me sick. The X-Men were sitting around, moaning about how humans dont' except mutants......as they themselves were vacationing in Spain. Or someplace tropical. This was, of course, while Nightcrawler was trapped by the Neo & Kitty Pryde was M.I.A. They went on VACATION. "Hey, two of our teammates are missing, possibly in life threatening situations.....eh, too stressful. Let's hit the beach!"