5* Matches in WWF/E History

[Guest BionicRedneck]

The Flair/Steamboat thread inspired me to do this. What are the genuine ***** matches in WWF/E history.

 

IMO, these are the matches that could be:

 

Bret Vs Owen, WMX

Bret Vs Austin, WM13

Bret Vs Austin, SS96

 

what are yours?

[Guest D'Lo White]

Owen Hart vs Bulldog, European Title Tourney Final

[Guest BigTim2002]

TLC 1 and 2, Bret/Austin SS 96, Bret/Owen WM10 and SS 94, Shawn/Razor WM10, Savage/Steamboat WM 3, Bret/Shawn WM12, Sasuke/TAKA RAW 4/97, Candian Chrises vs. Austin/HHH, RAW 5/13/2001, Austin/Benoit, Edmonton SmackDown!, Benoit/Jericho SS 2000, Bret/Bulldog SS 92

 

Any more I've left out?

[Guest Kid Kablam]

When you say 5 *, do you mean the wrestling, or the wrestling combined with heat. The matches you listed there had an amazing amount of heat involved which put the match over the 4 3/4 mark. I mean, some of the most talented worrkers have never had a 5 * match by that standard.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

The only ones I would think about rating that highly would be...

 

Hart/Hart WM X

Austin/Hart SS '96

 

And even those, I'm not quite sure about. Re-watching is an important thing.

 

I still need to see the Hart/Flair Iron Man match, but aside from that, I don't think there's anything else that I've missed that has any merrit in a discusion like this.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Well, heat is a big part of wrestling. I just meant which matches would you rate 5*.

 

TLC 1 and 2, Bret/Austin SS 96, Bret/Owen WM10 and SS 94, Shawn/Razor WM10, Savage/Steamboat WM 3, Bret/Shawn WM12, Sasuke/TAKA RAW 4/97, Candian Chrises vs. Austin/HHH, RAW 5/13/2001, Austin/Benoit, Edmonton SmackDown!, Benoit/Jericho SS 2000, Bret/Bulldog SS 92

 

 

Bret/Shawn? TLC? Benoit/Jericho? hmmm, i think i'll have to watch those again.

 

I actually thought that Bret/Bulldog from IYH 5 was as good as the SS one.

[Guest Cubbie78]

The ten man Tag match from Canadian Stampede, dont forget that

 

Bret/austin Wrestlemania XIII

 

Benoit Jeicho - RR 2001 Ladder match, maybe

 

hmmmmmm...Taker/Shawn hell in the cell - Badd Blood

[Guest BigTim2002]

I want NOBODY to say that the Candian Stampede 10-man was *****, because the match itself was nothing unless it was Austin vs. anybody else. It was ***1/2 at best, with half of that coming with the crowd heat.

[Guest Kid Kablam]

The only ones I would think about rating that highly would be...

 

Hart/Hart WM X

Austin/Hart SS '96

 

And even those, I'm not quite sure about. Re-watching is an important thing.

 

I still need to see the Hart/Flair Iron Man match, but aside from that, I don't think there's anything else that I've missed that has any merrit in a discusion like this.

Damn Ricky, your a hard grader. You're like one of those teachers that only gives one A to the entire class. Nothing wrong with standards I guess. But what's the point of have\ing a ***** rating if you almost never drag it out.

[Guest BigTim2002]

Exactly. That's like saying you've seen 6/3/94, and that is the ONLY match you'd give *****, and that anything below it, even if it was FUCKING MAGNIFICANT is only ****3/4. That's a bunch of bullshit.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

well, if you throw out 5* too often then when a true 5* comes along the rating doesn't mean as much.

 

In recent years 5* have been apearing more frequently, and at ridiculous times, like for a friggin Low Ki match or something.

[Guest BigTim2002]

Yeah, and I'm going to tell you this right now. The ONLY match Low-Ki got even close to with ***** was the ROH Debut Show when he fought Daniels and Dragon. ****1/2 at the most.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Right, so maybe Ricky being a "hard grader" ain't such a bad thing.

 

EDIT: I doubt the Low Ki match was even that high

[Guest Cubbie78]

"In recent years 5* have been apearing more frequently, and at ridiculous times, like for a friggin Low Ki match or something."

 

I have to agree with that, I mean I enjoy the X division, or Low Ki's ROH matches (especially with American Dragon, heh) but no way I would give them five stars...I mean come on...Ok, so Im a little biased on the Canadian stampede match, since it was the first PPV I ordered....

[Guest red_file]

Exactly. That's like saying you've seen 6/3/94, and that is the ONLY match you'd give *****, and that anything below it, even if it was FUCKING MAGNIFICANT is only ****3/4. That's a bunch of bullshit.

Actually, it makes quite a bit of sense. If the highest possible rating is thrown about willy-nilly, what's the point?

 

I suppose it really depends on what your standard of juding is. If you rate each match against all the matches you've ever seen, then it makes sense that only a few (possibly only one) matches could be considered ***** or "perfect." If you evaluate the matches based upon themselves and don't consider how they relate to other matches, then it's entirely possible that you've viewed many matches there were "perfect" for what they were and could be considered *****. I suppose each view is valid.

 

6/3/94? C'mon, certainly there are better candidates for the perfect match.

[Guest BigTim2002]

There are matches that make your jaw drop, and then there are matches that you can watch over and over. I can watch WrestleWar 89, 10/10/96 MPro 10-man, the last great Kenta Kobashi match against Jun Akiyama, Bret/Owen at WM10 and SS, and Bret/Austin at SS 96 or WM 13. THOSE matches are *****.

[Guest Fook_Hing_Ho]

WWF matches I rate *****:

 

Hart/Hart WM10 & SS94

Savage/Steamboat WM3

Hart/Austin SS96 & WM13

TLC 1 & 2

92 Rumble Match

HBK/Taker HIAC

HBK/Razor Ladder WM10

HHH/Foley Rumble Street Fight & HIAC

Rock/HHH Iron Man

Benoit/Jericho Ladder RR01

[Guest bob_barron]

Okay-

Steamboat v. Savage WMIII

RR92

Flair v. Savage WMVIII

Bret v. Bulldog Summ92

Bret v. Owen WMX

Razor v. HBK WM X

Bret v. Austin SurS96

Bret v. Austin WM13

HBK v. Taker Badd Blood

HHH v. Cactus RR00

Rock v. HHH JD00

Y2J v. HHH FL

TLC

HHH v. Austin NWO

TLC2

Rock v. Austin X-7

Benoit/Y2J v. HHH/SCSA RAW

[Guest BifEverchad]

Triple H and Cactus from Royal Rumble 2000

 

a 5 star match to me.

 

 

* * * * *

[Guest BigTim2002]

I don't know man, 6/3/94 was fucking awesome...I'm not sure many things could top that.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

6/3/94? C'mon, certainly there are better candidates for the perfect match

 

Are you saying that isn't 5*?

 

Some people can be too easy with ratings, but, on the other hand, I think some people can be too critical with ratings, basically if you really enjoy the match enough to give it 5*, then give it 5*. If you love a spot-fests enough to give it 5* fair enough, although i wouldn't

 

Triple H and Cactus from Royal Rumble 2000

 

Although I disagree with your rating for this (The early portion was rather dull) I do agree that your "album of the day" is very good

[Guest red_file]

6/3/94? C'mon, certainly there are better candidates for the perfect match

 

Are you saying that isn't 5*?

Yes.

 

Is a great match? Yes. But depending on how you want to view the match it lacks a certain consistency. If you desire to view it as a story match (which most people do), then you have to deal with the fact that the wrong guy went over (in story terms) and how the adjustments that Kawada made to his offense never materialized into anything. If you view it from a more technical aspect there's the funky transitions to deal with and that the finish doesn't build logically from the match.

 

I'm not saying that's it's not a really good match, just that there are things in it that prevent me from considering it as great as others consider it. It is not, in my opinion, a perfect match.

[Guest goodhelmet]

ok, here's the deal... royal rumble 92 was a great and even a historic moment w/ flair winning the title. it was NOT a ***** match. there were too many crappy guys doing absolutely nothing in that match for it to be *****. a mark out moment? for sure, but then again, so was the showster which was absolutely hilarious.

 

the canadian stampede match falls along the same lines. great heat, ok match.

 

as for ***** maches I have seen in the WWF...

 

for sure...

owen/bret wmX

austin-bret SurS 96

savage-steamboat wm3

 

and possibly...

benoit vs. austin SD!

owen-bret (cage) SS 94

bulldog-bret SS 92

 

there mat be a couple of others but i think these truly shine above the rest of the pack.

[Guest Cubbie78]

6/3/94?...what the fuck are you guys talking about?...THATS why I hate puro..dont even say the guys involved, just the date, and thats supposed to mean EVERYTHING, sigh...bleh

[Guest BionicRedneck]

the finish doesn't build logically from the match

 

Misawa pulls out the Tiger Driver 91 because he has to. He has hit Kawada with all he has, and can't put him away, so he has to use TD91 which was at the time a deadly move, to finish the match.

[Guest Brian]

Bret Hart vs. Ric Flair is the only WWE match that I'll give five stars without a doubt or second thought.

 

Matches I'd consider, the first four probably more than the other: Bret/Owen (both matches), Ramon/Michaels (second ladder match), Bret/Austin (SS only), Savage/Steamboat (WM3), Michaels/Mankind (Mind Games).

 

Bret/Owen matches were both great. Ramon and Michaels used the template provided by Bret for the first ladder match but the second match ran much, much deeper and the only problem was they blew the finish. Bret/Austin was techinically pure. Savage/Steamboat, yeah. Michaels and Mankind had an awesome, awesome brawl and it is the best match I've ever seen without a finish.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

6/3/94?...what the fuck are you guys talking about?...THATS why I hate puro..dont even say the guys involved, just the date, and thats supposed to mean EVERYTHING, sigh...bleh

Well, the thing is in Puro dates are used in the same way PPVs are used in US. For instance someone might say "the WrestleWar 89 match" to describe Flair/Steamboat.

 

You hate Puro because people use dates? thats pretty funny

[Guest Cubbie78]

I know, I know, was just messing around...should have put [\puro hating smark mode on]/[\puro hating smark mode off]

[Guest red_file]

the finish doesn't build logically from the match

 

Misawa pulls out the Tiger Driver 91 because he has to. He has hit Kawada with all he has, and can't put him away, so he has to use TD91 which was at the time a deadly move, to finish the match.

Yes, and I still contend that that's not building logically from the match. On first blush it seems like an awesome way to end a match -- dust off the old finisher that hasn't been used in two (three?) years to vanquish this opponent who has taken everything that's been dished out -- but ultimately it leaves something to be desired. By ending with the Tiger Driver '91 it kinda renders the leg work pointless; the match had set up that Misawa would be able to use his elbow smashes to seal the deal (which counterpointed Kawada's offense; Kawada was going for humiliating Misawa while Misawa was going about business as usual); the final moments showed that Misawa was in no danger of losing as he was completly unphased by Kawada's kicks and more than likely could've finished him off with the regular tiger driver or, at most, a tiger suplex. The final spot seems tacked on and ruins the ending because it doesn't follow the logic of the match.

 

Of course this would eventually get to insane heights with the head-drop hell that was coming, but it really irks me in this match.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

the final moments showed that Misawa was in no danger of losing as he was completly unphased by Kawada's kicks

 

I think the point they are trying to prove is that Kawada's kicks have nothing left at the end, he had given his all.