Guest Vern Gagne Report post Posted August 30, 2002 Steinbrenner does have a right to be suspicious. The Yankees offered a better deal for Floyd. Than again maybe the Expos are run by an idiot(Selig). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bravesfan Report post Posted August 30, 2002 Whoa, whoa, whoa. The Phillies didn't sacrifice Rolen, they got something in return for him. He was out of Philly like the fat girl in dodgeball at the end of the year. I don't think the Phillies are run right at all, and I wish the entire city of Philadelphia would blow up most of the time, but they did what they had to do with Rolen. Why would the loyal Rolen leave this team for free agency? Is it because even though Rolen stuck with the good and HORRIBLY BAD years of the team, they have yet to improve? Would anyone without a real beef with the team turn down $100 MILLION DOLLARS?!? They reward questionable players with contracts because they can't attract the Giambis, Mussinas, A-Rods and Sheffields that other teams can! Instead, they're getting as much cap space (trying to deal Mesa, Wolf and Burrell) so that they can stay afloat. Building their own prospects, while keeping them loyal to the club, are the only chance they have to beat the Braves for the NL East. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest alkeiper Report post Posted August 30, 2002 He has only made 6 errors, which proves to be the best % of 3rd basemen in the NL. Fielding Percentage is a red herring. It doesn't tell you how many balls he didn't try to make a play on, or tough plays he had no chance of making. Has Castilla ever won a gold glove? I've been watching the Braves all season on TBS, and have seen many great plays from ol' Vinny. I watch the Phillies, and I've seen this guy named Scott Rolen play. I don't care if you're Brooks Robinson. When you have an OBP of .262 and a Slugging Pct. of .333, you're not helping your team. Those numbers are simply not acceptable for a major leaguer. They reward questionable players with contracts because they can't attract the Giambis, Mussinas, A-Rods and Sheffields that other teams can! Can't attract the Giambis? They have one, his name is Jeremy. The Phillies have a new ballpark opening soon. Prospects? They have Brett Myers, Marlon Byrd, Chase Utley, and Bud Smith all ready in AAA. They're going to be a dangerous team very soon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Smell the ratings!!! Report post Posted September 2, 2002 As someone who doesn't give a rat's ass about baseball, I'll meddle where I'm not wanted Not even getting in the crappy game, MLB's financial/management situation is a mess all across the board. Sure, the Yankees have more money than any other team, and every they go out and buy a couple guys at the deadline. But how do they do it? Here's how. The Yankees know that they are the exception, and baseball's finances are a disaster. The Yankees know that all they have to do to get Weaver is throw a few prospects at the Tigers. Why? Because the Yankees know that the Tigers would gladly give their best player if it meant not having to pay for him. Just like the Royals and the Blue Jays and the Orioles and all the other teams that have "traded" with the Yanks in the past. When the Expoes get wiped out, who do you think will get Vlad? Who gets what's left of the Twins? Care to take a guess? Even though football is superior to basketball in every way, every sport should have salary structure like the NBA. A cap, so teams can't outspend eachother. But a Veteran's Exception and the Bird rule, encouraging depth and holding on to your players instead of picking up vital parts of other teams. And a luxury tax, in essence a fine, if you try to dick around with the cap by way of singing bonuses and all that legal crap. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bravesfan Report post Posted September 2, 2002 Can't attract the Giambis? They have one, his name is Jeremy. I stated the Giambi(s), A-Rod(s), Sheffield(s) and Mussina(s), in the sense of those 4 great players, or players of that caliber. Not some utility bum like Jeremy Giambi. Geez, the utility guy he was traded for is doing a better job than him (Mabry). The Phillies have a new ballpark opening soon. Prospects? They have Brett Myers, Marlon Byrd, Chase Utley, and Bud Smith all ready in AAA. They're going to be a dangerous team very soon. While keeping their ML core (Burrell, Abreu, Lieberthal, Rollins, Wolf, Duckworth)? Chances they'll deal 60% of these players to just keep the players who are going to ask for HUGE contracts (Burrell, Rollins and Abreu, deservedly), while starting all over again. They are FORCED to go into debt, just to keep up with the Yankees and others. Is that fair to them? Question: Are they going to demolish Veterans Stadium or keep it for football players to blow their knees out on? IMO, destroy this place, burn the rubble and have Mitch Williams to come and spit on it. It costed him the World Series, so that's the least he can do now Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest alkeiper Report post Posted September 2, 2002 Geez, the utility guy he was traded for is doing a better job than him (Mabry). Jeremy Giambi has hit .264/.449.571 since the trade, with 11 home runs in just 140 at bats. He's hitting better than Mabry actually, and he's also hitting much better than Travis Lee. While keeping their ML core (Burrell, Abreu, Lieberthal, Rollins, Wolf, Duckworth)? Chances they'll deal 60% of these players to just keep the players who are going to ask for HUGE contracts (Burrell, Rollins and Abreu, deservedly), while starting all over again. The Phillies are clearing $13 million in payroll after this year. As for their team, lets take a look-see......... Burrell- arbitration eligible Abreu- signed through 2008 Lieberthal- signed through 2006 Rollins- arbitarion eligible after 2003 Wolf- arbitration eligible Duckworth- arbitration eligible after 2004 No free agents there to worry about for a while. Plus, they have payroll flexibility, and a new ballpark opening in a year. Question: Are they going to demolish Veterans Stadium or keep it for football players to blow their knees out on? IMO, destroy this place, burn the rubble and have Mitch Williams to come and spit on it. It costed him the World Series, so that's the least he can do now The new football stadium opens next year, and the Vet will be demolished. And how exactly did the Vet cost Mitch Williams the World Series? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bravesfan Report post Posted September 2, 2002 Jeremy Giambi has hit .264/.449/.571 since the trade, with 11 home runs in just 140 at bats. He's hitting better than Mabry actually, and he's also hitting much better than Travis Lee. Umm, Mabry's hitting .310/.347/.576 with 9 homers and 36 RBI in 158 games. Add to that Giambi has only 25 RBI and 17 more K's (46-29) in a HIGHER SPOT in the line-up (Giambi hitting either 5 or 6, behind Burrell or Polanco...Mabry hits 7 behind Long) And to be honest, a cup of milk could do a better job than Travis Lee. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest alkeiper Report post Posted September 2, 2002 Umm, Mabry's hitting .310/.347/.576 with 9 homers and 36 RBI in 158 games. Add to that Giambi has only 25 RBI and 17 more K's (46-29) in a HIGHER SPOT in the line-up (Giambi hitting either 5 or 6, behind Burrell or Polanco...Mabry hits 7 behind Long) Most players would have more RBIs in Oakland thanks to their explosive lineup. Note Giambi's OBP. A lot of his value is that he draws a lot of walks. Plus, with Giambi you don't have to worry about when the glass slipper will shatter. According to most MLB experts and fans, his cleat stuck on the mound in his "final" pitch to Joe Carter. You can see it if you have the tape of that Game 7. Williams doesn't want to admit it himself, just cause he wants to make no excuses.... but he'll be the first to trigger the explosives The problem with that is that the final game and Joe Carter's fatal home run occured at the Skydome in Toronto. It was game 6 btw. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bravesfan Report post Posted September 2, 2002 My mistake. Two horrible fields either way, though... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest OctoberBlood Report post Posted September 2, 2002 Fielding Percentage is a red herring. It doesn't tell you how many balls he didn't try to make a play on, or tough plays he had no chance of making. Has Castilla ever won a gold glove? Are you hearing yourself? Fielding percentage is what a gold glove is all about. You talk about not getting alot of chances? Read before you speak, he has just as many chances as Rolen or anybody else has. He stops the balls, he gets people out - thats what a damn Gold Glove is about. Has he, or has he not won a gold glove in his past doesn't have anything to do with anything. You make no sense. I watch the Phillies, and I've seen this guy named Scott Rolen play. I don't care if you're Brooks Robinson. When you have an OBP of .262 and a Slugging Pct. of .333, you're not helping your team. Those numbers are simply not acceptable for a major leaguer. Sorry, but I think you need some education. A Gold Glove award doesn't have anything to do with offenseive statistics. Jeremy Giambi has hit .264/.449.571 since the trade, with 11 home runs in just 140 at bats. He's hitting better than Mabry actually, and he's also hitting much better than Travis Lee. Excuse me? John Mabry has hit much better than Giambi, and Mabry has hit when it really counts, on a winning team, in a playoff race. Try looking at the numbers my friend, John Mabry's are much better, and much for attrative. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest alkeiper Report post Posted September 2, 2002 Fielding percentage is what a gold glove is all about. Ok. Andruw Jones had six errors last year. Why did he get a gold glove? You talk about not getting alot of chances? Read before you speak, he has just as many chances as Rolen or anybody else has. He stops the balls, he gets people out - thats what a damn Gold Glove is about. Its simple. All fielding percentage tells you is that he didn't screw up the routine plays. What it doesn't tell you is how many doubles he took away from the opposing team. Has he, or has he not won a gold glove in his past doesn't have anything to do with anything. You make no sense. The fact that he hasn't won a gold glove in the last ten years tells me he isn't the Miracle Fielding God you make him out to be. Sorry, but I think you need some education. A Gold Glove award doesn't have anything to do with offenseive statistics. Of course it doesn't. But when you have absolutely abysmal offensive statistics, you're not worth keeping around regardless of defensive skills. Excuse me? John Mabry has hit much better than Giambi, and Mabry has hit when it really counts, on a winning team, in a playoff race. Try looking at the numbers my friend, John Mabry's are much better, and much for attrative. I tried looking at the stats, and I saw a guy who creates outs 10% less often than Mabry. I also see a guy who's 4 years younger, and who's stats are more in line with his career stats, and more likely to continue his success. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest OctoberBlood Report post Posted September 2, 2002 Ok. Andruw Jones had six errors last year. Why did he get a gold glove? Are you listening to yourself? 6 Errors is pretty good, probally not the best, but pretty damn good. Plus, everyone knows Andruw Jones is by far the best defensive centerfielder, you can't say that about any 3rdbasemen, theres not one guy who stands out. Its simple. All fielding percentage tells you is that he didn't screw up the routine plays. What it doesn't tell you is how many doubles he took away from the opposing team. Just as many as Scott Rolen. Oh, and I would say he has taken away quite afew bunt singles .. he is fantastic doing that, charging and throwing from an angle. The fact that he hasn't won a gold glove in the last ten years tells me he isn't the Miracle Fielding God you make him out to be. Again, something you have said makes no sense at all. You are basicly telling me a guy can't improve on his defense as the years past? Thats BS man, and you know it. That has nothing to do with winning a gold glove. Of course it doesn't. But when you have absolutely abysmal offensive statistics, you're not worth keeping around regardless of defensive skills. You changed the subject. When was this discussion about keeping a player on a team, we are talking about Vinny and gold gloves, we aren't talking about if the Braves should keep him or not. Hell, look at Andruw Jones, he strikes out so many times, and his avg. is way down, amd Homeruns aren't that great .. so does that mean he should be released? C'mon, use your brain. I tried looking at the stats, and I saw a guy who creates outs 10% less often than Mabry. I also see a guy who's 4 years younger, and who's stats are more in line with his career stats, and more likely to continue his success. Geez, you are very smart eh? The Oakland Atheletics picked up John Mabry for the race, for the playoffs. It doesn't matter how young a guy is, if he is hitting. Creating outs, WOW .. Big fricking down. Mabry comes through when it counts, when runners are on base, when the A's need it. He has been a huge pickup, and has been much better than Giambi this year. That is all that counts. The Phillies are building for the future my friend, the A's are not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest alkeiper Report post Posted September 2, 2002 Are you listening to yourself? 6 Errors is pretty good, probally not the best, but pretty damn good. Plus, everyone knows Andruw Jones is by far the best defensive centerfielder, you can't say that about any 3rdbasemen, theres not one guy who stands out. 6 errors are among the high end as far as outfielders go. I'm not saying Jones is bad, I'm saying errors don't tell the whole story. And do yourself a favor and watch Rolen sometime. He is truly a third baseman who stands out. Again, something you have said makes no sense at all. You are basicly telling me a guy can't improve on his defense as the years past? Thats BS man, and you know it. That has nothing to do with winning a gold glove. Sure he can improve his defense, but players generally don't improve after age 32. I'm just saying that's there's really no evidence that Vinny Castilla is any better than any other third baseman in the league. Creating outs, WOW .. Big fricking deal. It's extremely important. As Earl Weaver said, your #1 offensive weapon is your 27 outs. Here you have a guy who gets on base as often as any other player in the league (outside Bonds). What that does is creates RBI opportunities for the players behind him. You don't waste outs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest OctoberBlood Report post Posted September 2, 2002 And do yourself a favor and watch Rolen sometime. He is truly a third baseman who stands out. I've seen Rolen many times, he is good. But, he is not the best. Aaron Boone stands out, he can do just as much as Rolen can, and Boone has been better offensively. But, we are talking about defense. Aaron Boone matches up to Scott Rolen, Scott Rolen is good, but he is not the greatest, and he sure as hell doesn't stand out in my book. He makes these great plays every now and then, but so does Aaron and so does Vinny. Sure he can improve his defense, but players generally don't improve after age 32. I'm just saying that's there's really no evidence that Vinny Castilla is any better than any other third baseman in the league. Ugh, again .. what is the relation to Gold Glove THIS SEASON? He has greatly improved to be a Gold Glover this season, or atleast a huge candiate. His past doesn't have anything to do with it. What evidence that he is good? LOOK AT HIS DAMN NUMBERS. Its simple as that. It's extremely important. As Earl Weaver said, your #1 offensive weapon is your 27 outs. Here you have a guy who gets on base as often as any other player in the league (outside Bonds). What that does is creates RBI opportunities for the players behind him. You don't waste outs. I don't agree with that quote from Weaver. But, that is besides the point, you totally ignored the rest of my post .. John Mabry has been much better than Jeremy Giambi. Who would I pick? Who would Peter Gammons pick? Who would a team that needs some fire to help the offense pick? JOHN MABRY. And thats exactly what they got. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest alkeiper Report post Posted September 2, 2002 LOOK AT HIS DAMN NUMBERS. Its simple as that. Ok, lets look at his numbers. Castilla's 23rd in put outs, 9th on assists, 11th in double plays, 21st in range factor, and 15th in zone rating. By comparison, Rolen is 2nd in putouts, 1st in assists, 1st in double plays, 1st in range factor, and 2nd in zone rating. The ONLY stat Castilla has an edge on is errors. John Mabry has been much better than Jeremy Giambi. Who would I pick? Who would Peter Gammons pick? Who would a team that needs some fire to help the offense pick? JOHN MABRY. And thats exactly what they got. I can see where you would want Mabry. My contention is basically that you can't take a guy based on just 150 at bats. Mabry had a sub .250 Batting average the last 4 years. I'm inclined to think he won't continue his performance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest OctoberBlood Report post Posted September 2, 2002 Ok, lets look at his numbers. Castilla's 23rd in put outs, 9th on assists, 11th in double plays, 21st in range factor, and 15th in zone rating. By comparison, Rolen is 2nd in putouts, 1st in assists, 1st in double plays, 1st in range factor, and 2nd in zone rating. The ONLY stat Castilla has an edge on is errors. Vinny Castilla hasn't played everygame like Rolen has, but the errors to putout ratio is still better than Rolens I do believe. But like I've said, Castilla has improved and is a good candiate.. Scott Rolen isn't the greatest. I can see where you would want Mabry. My contention is basically that you can't take a guy based on just 150 at bats. Mabry had a sub .250 Batting average the last 4 years. I'm inclined to think he won't continue his performance. You aren't seeing the point. We are talking about who got the better deal this year. Of coruse it is the Athletics, who got John Mabry, and only gave up Jeremey Giambi. The A's clearly don't need Giambi for this season, or the next. John Mabry was picked up to help boost the offense this year, not next year. If he does good, they may keep him on their bench, and if he doesn't do good next year, it doesn't really matter. Why doesn't it matter? Because he was traded for to help this season, as I've stated many times. His past has nothing to do with this. He won't continue his performance? There is only a half of a month left of baseball, what can you not continue? He has already done his job. The Athletics already got their injured guys back all healthy, and now all Mabry has to do is be a good little boy off the bench. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest alkeiper Report post Posted September 2, 2002 Who got the better of the deal? I still say Giambi's 100 point edge in OBP makes a huge difference. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest OctoberBlood Report post Posted September 2, 2002 I give up, you just don't get it - and probally never will. Very sad.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest alkeiper Report post Posted September 2, 2002 I don't get it? Can't you see how some people value On Base Percentage? Gaimbi has CRUSHED the ball since he came to Philadelphia. And as a bonus, he looks like John Kruk. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest OctoberBlood Report post Posted September 2, 2002 With the Oakland Athletics, a winning ball club - he done nothing. He goes to Philly, where it means nothing - he does something. Big deal. John Mabry has turned his season, and well .. career around with his short stint with the A's. He is hitting WHEN IT COUNTS, and has helped the Oakland club big time. Baseball Tonight, basicly agrees with me, as they have him on their "Down the Stretch" bench team .. John Mabry means alot to Oakland, as Giambi means nothing to eitehr team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest alkeiper Report post Posted September 2, 2002 Giambi hit .274/.390/.471 with Oakland. Mabry has hit well in the clutch. In 21 at bats. What the hell does 21 at bats mean? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest OctoberBlood Report post Posted September 2, 2002 It means a good bench player, 21 atbats is alot coming off the bench just being with Oakland a short time. Don' tell me you ignored everything I've said, and just picked parts to read.. c'mon, this was fun - but now its just getting annoying having to repeat myself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest redbaron51 Report post Posted September 2, 2002 back on topic. the one sign i remember seeing was a guy holding up a sign saying Hockey starts October 9th (or 8th?) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest alkeiper Report post Posted September 3, 2002 OctoberBlood- I'll leave it with that. I can see where Mabry's having a great year, and I am happy to see Oakland doing so well. Being a Phillie booster, I'm a big fan of Jeremy Giambi. Besides, he has the look of a Phillie. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bravesfan Report post Posted September 3, 2002 Just to clear it up... Mabry had 21 AB's with the Phillies. He currently has 158 AB's with the Athletics. The Phillies got the better deal in the long run (obviously), but Mabry has done more for his team stats-wise than Giambi has since the trade. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest alkeiper Report post Posted September 3, 2002 BravesFan- I was referring to situational statistics. Mabry has also had 21 at bats in "Close and Late" situations. See for yourself on espn.com. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
