Best Strike Signs

[Guest OctoberBlood]

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/signs/020828.html

 

A few are funny; take "I'll go see the Nuggets Play" .. Ouch.

 

I like the worthless one.

[Guest alkeiper]

Call 1-800 GET-A-JOB

 

I'd love to see the average fan try and play professional sports. Especially that guy.

 

Isn't $2.2 Mil Enough?

 

Why don't you ask the owners, who make a dozen times more money off baseball?

 

If you don't like baseball, stay away. You won't be missed. And none of those signs were witty in the slightest. Why not pull out Yogi's classic quote? "If the fans don't want to come to the ballpark, no one's going to stop them." I say the fans will come back, because they love baseball. If they didn't love baseball, they wouldn't be so goddamned pissy about a strike in the first place.

[Guest bravesfan]

Sure, the fans do love baseball, but how long would this current landscape of the MLB have lasted? Even a blind man can see that every facet of the MLB salary structure is disgustingly bad. A strike is the BEST thing for baseball in the long run- these MLB executives are complete and utter morons and the players are obviously stubborn on their stance.

 

As for the owners taking huge chunks of money leaving their players in the dust, especially with the lowly teams...

 

Of course it happens! It's not like this doesn't occur in the NFL, NBA or NHL either. But since each of these sports has a cap (w/ luxury tax), owners are encouraged to go out and spend their money, as long as the salaries are balanced by the cap.

 

Salary Cap = Competetive field introduced = "Equal" financed teams that rely on their management and scouts as the X-Factor in winning (for the most part) = Higher attendance to watch "better" games = Higher Player salaries = Team value skyrockets = Owners walllowing in cash.

 

And ALL owners understand this chain of events.

 

In baseball, poor teams that actually do NOT have rich owners (Marlins, Expos, etc) are the ones failing to contend. Teams this far into debt will never have a fair shake at things if the revenue sharing and/or the cap isn't introduced soon.

 

Teams like the Twins and such, have the bank accounts (if needed to) to keep up with the Yankees, Dodgers and Braves if they wanted to, but choose not to for a reason. If there was a "hard cap" implemented, doesn't anyone think teams like the Tigers and D-Rays could get right back into things? People like to argue about poor management of these teams- could you win with Mark Redman or Tanyon Sturtze as your #1 starters?

When was the last time the Rays or Tigers were able to spend money on anybody?

 

f there was a salary cap set into place around 10 years ago, the Expos would be able to keep one or two of their top farm prospects- RJ, Pedro, Moises, Walker - from walking away so early. That would've help their franchise unbelievably had any of these players stayed for a prolonged period. You've seen what the Expos can accomplish with a little financial help- their attendance skyrocketed from year's past, as well as the overall quality of the team. How about the A's for another example?

 

I know in the NBA, the Bulls, who have not spent an honest dime since the Jordan era, could be back into contention with one power signing. Same goes with every lowly team in the NFL and NHL as well.

[Guest alkeiper]

Even a blind man can see that every facet of the MLB salary structure is disgustingly bad.

 

Why? It's based on America's fine system of capitalism. Wall Street uses the same system.

 

But since each of these sports has a cap (w/ luxury tax), owners are encouraged to go out and spend their money, as long as the salaries are balanced by the cap.

 

Read this. Basically, the Sonics can't add another million to an offer to keep a player because it'll cost them $17 million because of the cap. What kind of system is that?

 

Salary Cap = Competetive field introduced = "Equal" financed teams that rely on their management and scouts as the X-Factor in winning (for the most part) = Higher attendance to watch "better" games = Higher Player salaries = Team value skyrockets = Owners walllowing in cash.

 

Competitive field? The NFL and NBA have more than their share of crappy teams each year. The difference is you don't know who they'll be.

 

In baseball, poor teams that actually do NOT have rich owners (Marlins, Expos, etc) are the ones failing to contend. Teams this far into debt will never have a fair shake at things if the revenue sharing and/or the cap isn't introduced soon.

 

Both teams you mentioned either were or are owned by Jeffrey Loria. The man who didn't even have the sense to negotiate a basic television contract for the Expos, costing them television revenue and fan support? Teams run like that have NO ONE to blame but themselves. And when you have management that idiotic, it's better for them to simply go bankrupt. No sense giving teams like that even more money to piss away.

 

Teams like the Twins and such, have the bank accounts (if needed to) to keep up with the Yankees, Dodgers and Braves if they wanted to, but choose not to for a reason. If there was a "hard cap" implemented, doesn't anyone think teams like the Tigers and D-Rays could get right back into things? People like to argue about poor management of these teams- could you win with Mark Redman or Tanyon Sturtze as your #1 starters?

When was the last time the Rays or Tigers were able to spend money on anybody?

 

The Tigers had a #1 starter. Jeff Weaver. Signed at an extremely affordable rate through 2005. And they traded him. The Devil Rays spent money. On Jose Canseco, Vinny Castilla, and Greg Vaughn. The Tigers spent money as well. On Bobby Higginson, Craig Paquette, and Dmitri Young. All players signed for millions of dollars, and all players no better than the best minor leaguers. They have Mark Redman and Tanyon Sturtze because of their poor management, not because of the system.

 

If there was a salary cap set into place around 10 years ago, the Expos would be able to keep one or two of their top farm prospects- RJ, Pedro, Moises, Walker - from walking away so early.

 

They somehow managed to pony up the cash to offer Dustin Hermanson $5 million. Again, maybe if they marketed the team, they could open up the cash flow they need.

 

Here's my bone of contention. There is no rule or obstacle that says you can't produce more revenue. Look at the Mariners or the Cardinals. With smart management and marketing, they are rolling in cash. Consequently, they can compete with any team in baseball. Teams like the Tigers, Devil Rays, and Brewers would basically recieve money for being poorly run and incompetant. Why should we reward that sort of thing?

[Guest Kotzenjunge]

See the kid with the tiny sign and autographed ballcap? THAT'S the powerful one.

 

I'm still insisting it's all about the kids.

 

Fo sheez,

Kotzenjunge

[Guest kkktookmybabyaway]

Fehr the Reaper...

 

hahaha... cute

 

All these fans pictured will be back.

[Guest bravesfan]

Competitive field? The NFL and NBA have more than their share of crappy teams each year. The difference is you don't know who they'll be.

Yes, that's because the salary cap affects those who abuse it and who stays within its boundaries. Those abusers are now paying for it (Jaguars, Ravens, Vikings- the Niners a few years ago and the Raiders coming up) while the border teams will have to make a move to get anywhere (Chargers for one).

 

It's called a RISK. That's what makes the NFL so captivating to watch- a team going for it all winds up blowing it all on several bad pick-ups (Ravens switching to Grbac at QB) and have to build on their draft picks and young players again- but they will be competetive again in 2-3 years, unlike the Florida Marlins of the MLB. Can you honestly say the Tigers COULD be competitive in 2-3 years? Take that, apply that same thought to the Houston Texans, the unanimously worst team in the NFL and a EXPANSION team at that- then you have your answer of competitive balance in other sports.

 

Both teams you mentioned either were or are owned by Jeffrey Loria.  The man who didn't even have the sense to negotiate a basic television contract for the Expos, costing them television revenue and fan support?  Teams run like that have NO ONE to blame but themselves.  And when you have management that idiotic, it's better for them to simply go bankrupt.  No sense giving teams like that even more money to piss away.

 

You're right- my bad. In all honesty, one or both of these teams could be contracted very soon, thanks to Loria- you're right, they can't blame anyone but themselves for their poor management. But don't you think there isn't AT LEAST one equally bad owner out there in the NFL or NBA? If so, how are they so successful? If not, should we give a damn about what happens to the Expos or Marlins' franchise? Maybe the MLB should not give them hand-me-downs, go with Bud Selig's trail of thought and seriously mull over killing these two franchises.

 

The Tigers had a #1 starter.  Jeff Weaver.   Signed at an extremely affordable rate through 2005.  And they traded him.  The Devil Rays spent money.  On Jose Canseco, Vinny Castilla, and Greg Vaughn.  The Tigers spent money as well.  On Bobby Higginson, Craig Paquette, and Dmitri Young.  All players signed for millions of dollars, and all players no better than the best minor leaguers.  They have Mark Redman and Tanyon Sturtze because of their poor management, not because of the system.

 

ONLY in the MLB are teams sacrificing their best players (Philly with Rolen, Detroit with Weaver, Florida with Floyd) just so they can stay afloat for a few years. The Devil Rays are ultimately stuck with Vaughn- but Canseco left (3?) years ago, as did Castilla last year. The Jaguars are a similar story- spent horrendous amounts of money on Searcy, Boselli, Brackens and Taylor a 2-3 years ago- so much that these salaries equaled the rest of the entire team- and they all sucked due to injuries. YET, they will able to compete in 1-2 years. Pathetic management, but it doesn't matter in the long run. Bumbling fools in the NBA and NFL can compete for titles.

 

Teams like the Tigers, Devil Rays, and Brewers would basically recieve money for being poorly run and incompetant.  Why should we reward that sort of thing?

 

Hey I'm not defending any of these sorry teams vigorously- if it were up to me, 20-22 teams would be the limit. I'm just trying to stir up discussion on what the Major Leagues should do... some teams are so far into debt caused by poor management that they really don't deserve any reward for their stupidity. What they need is general HELP from the MLB- to salvage markets. Whether it be an adjusting of the salary structure, to a salary cap, to a luxury tax- anything to benefit the overall vitality of the game itself. The Yankees will be able to just choose players from other teams soon enough. Why does it say when an organization needs a cancerous disease (the strike that hurt MLB the last time) to save its life?

[Guest OctoberBlood]

With the Salary cap, teams like the damn Yankees wouldn't have the advantage over just about anyone. This year just totally made me sick. Yankees: "Well, we need a better outfielder, all we have is some medicore youngsters, and an old guy.. OH! I have an idea, lets go buy a guy who will hit 40 homeruns a year, with a cannon for an arm! " Next concern? Yankees: "We really need another pitcher, we have a few guys injured and going on the DL.. Oh! I have an idea! Lets go buy a number 1 ace from the Tigers! I mean c'mon, they can't refuse! We will give throw in Ted Lilly, who can be traded to the A's, and the Tigers can get some first basemen! The Tigers shouldn't care, right? Its not like they are gonna use Jeff Weaver!" Another sickning thought: Yankees: "I'm gonna cry and whine like a little bitch because the Red Sox got Cliff Floyd and we didn't! Must've been the MLB trying to screw us over, huh? Because remember, us .. we, the Yankees have all the money in the world, and we deserve to buy anyone in the world we want. But .. get this, SOME OTHER TEAM, OH MY.. other than the Yankees got a good player, lets go cry and whine!"

 

It's so pathetic. We need a salary cap, and we need one now. If the players can't get that through their frickin' head, then I have 6 letters for them: N F L .. N H L ..

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Call 1-800 GET-A-JOB

 

I'd love to see the average fan try and play professional sports. Especially that guy.

 

Isn't $2.2 Mil Enough?

 

Why don't you ask the owners, who make a dozen times more money off baseball?

 

If you don't like baseball, stay away. You won't be missed. And none of those signs were witty in the slightest. Why not pull out Yogi's classic quote? "If the fans don't want to come to the ballpark, no one's going to stop them." I say the fans will come back, because they love baseball. If they didn't love baseball, they wouldn't be so goddamned pissy about a strike in the first place.

They don't play so they can't criticize. God is that annoying when people say that. He doesn't play Baseball so that means he can't bring a sign to the ballpark expressing his opinion. Guess Ebert and Roper can't review moveis because they've never acted.

 

For the millionth time. The owners have admitted they fukked up and are trying to change things.

 

Every fan will be missed. Less people will go to games, and less will watch on TV.

 

Capitalism is great in the real world. In Baseball it can be socialism for all I care.

 

A hardcap is not the way to go. A soft cap with the ability to sign your own players without taking a hit is the best option.

[Guest alkeiper]

But my question is, why should the Yankees be penalized for running a competant franchise? I hate the Yankees as much as anyone, but they're not doing anything another team couldn't do with proper marketing and a plan. Besides, they're not good because of free agency, they're good because they had a terrific farm system the last seven years. Once the Playoffs come around the Athletics will once again give the Yankees all they can handle, and hopefully they'll win and cram the "small teams can't compete" bullshit down everyone's throats.

 

But who knows? Maybe the salary cap would help. Look what its done for the NBA.........

[Guest OctoberBlood]

But my question is, why should the Yankees be penalized for running a competant franchise? I hate the Yankees as much as anyone, but they're not doing anything another team couldn't do with proper marketing and a plan. Besides, they're not good because of free agency, they're good because they had a terrific farm system the last seven years. Once the Playoffs come around the Athletics will once again give the Yankees all they can handle, and hopefully they'll win and cram the "small teams can't compete" bullshit down everyone's throats.

 

But who knows? Maybe the salary cap would help. Look what its done for the NBA.........

Don't give me that bullshit. 90% of their major league team is players from other teams, not home grown. The Yankees don't have a good farm team, its one of the worst in the majors. They buy their players, they trade away their players, then throw in some cash. They have one of the best team in the majors because of Steinberrner, the money .. the boss, he has the big pocket. You have the nerve to say it isn't the Yankees fault? I suggest you re-read that, thats a bit funny and wrong. You're basicly saying since the Cincinnati Reds don't have all that money, its their fault? They wan't to loose? Hell No. If there was a cap, all the teams would have the same amount, and all the teams could be contenders. You wouldn't have teams like the Yankees just buying players here and there.

 

On to the farm system quote. Again, the Yankees don't have a good system, its one of the worst. Good farms systems are: The Reds, Twins, Marlins, Cubs, and a few more.

[Guest alkeiper]

The money isn't from George's pocket. The Yankees still reap huge profits despite their payroll. The only advantage they have is that they play in New York. They had a great farm system five years ago, which is why they have a good team now. But no team has ever been able to maintain a dynasty through free agency. Soon the Yankees dissipate anyway. And what exactly is the Yankees fault? They haven't exactly steamrolled the last two years. If they were going 11-0 in the playoffs after winning 120 games a year, then there'd be a problem. But I don't see what the big deal is.

[Guest OctoberBlood]

The money isn't from George's pocket.

Actually, alot of it is.

 

The Yankees still reap huge profits despite their payroll.  The only advantage they have is that they play in New York.

Playing in New York is a big part of it. The Mets and Yankees have huge pay rolls, and both of them spend their money like a little kid in a candy store. "Oh I want Rual! Oh wait.. and I want Weaver! Hmm .. lets grab some Robbie Alomar's, and a few of these Mo Vaughns! Lets just take the whole league!"

 

They had a great farm system five years ago, which is why they have a good team now.

Actually, no they didn't. They had a few good youngsters, but just like any other farm system, thats all they had. Most of their players on the Yankees team years ago and now, are from other teams. With accpection of a few. What happened to this so called star Drew Henson? Yeah, he sucks. He doesn't have a future in baseball, and he is looking to move onto football. Henson is considerd one of their best prospects, ouch.. I'd like to see who their worst is. Willy Mo Pena use to be with the Yankees, hes gonna be a star someday, but lucky us .. he was traded to the Reds system.

 

They haven't exactly steamrolled the last two years.  If they were going 11-0 in the playoffs after winning 120 games a year, then there'd be a problem.  But I don't see what the big deal is.

I wouldn't call it steamrolling, but being in the playoffs, and on top of the AL East for around 6 straight years sure as hell is dominating. How did they get there? MONEY! They buy players, and build a a monster that won't die. That is why its the Yankees fault. Atleast, IMO.

 

This is fun..

[Guest bob_barron]

Jeter

Pettite

Soriano

Williams

Spencer

Rivera

 

all home grown Yankees.

 

The Yankees like to win, i hate their guts but at least they try to be the best

[Guest cartman]

Being a Redsox fan I hate saying this but I can think of 8 key players on the Yankees that are home grown:

 

Jeter

Posada

Pettite

Rivera

B. Williams

Soriano

Spenser

Mendoza

 

Their "bought" players would be:

 

Giambi

Mussina

Clemens

Mondesi

Weaver(but he sucks now anyways)

Ventura

Karsay

 

Wells was a risk because of his back so I dont count that as buying a good pitcher...I HATE the friggin Yankees but half the reason they are champions almost every year is because they were able to use their "Yankees" name as drawing for some of the best, most talented, baseball players to their system.

 

Not to mention it's hard to say they suck when they just completely obliterated my Redsox in the last two games of this sick strike shortened season.

[Guest OctoberBlood]

Again, every team in baseball has a few - as I stated above - one thing every team in baseball doesn't have is all that frickin' money to do just what they want. And buy who just what they want.

[Guest El Hijo Del Lunatic]

Ok, this is going to be easier for me to start at the bottom and work my way backwards, so bear with me.

 

Not to mention it's hard to say they suck when they just completely obliterated my Redsox in the last two games of this sick strike shortened season.

 

The Red Sox curse continues - I mean, really, who'da thunk that Boomer Wells and Mussina would figure out their pitching problems back to back IN FENWAY?

 

ying in New York is a big part of it. The Mets and Yankees have huge pay rolls, and both of them spend their money like a little kid in a candy store. "Oh I want Rual! Oh wait.. and I want Weaver! Hmm .. lets grab some Robbie Alomar's, and a few of these Mo Vaughns! Lets just take the whole league!"

 

Yeah, and look how well that worked out for the Mets. It's not just that the Yankees go out and have the capital to get these people - they do their homework and get the right kind of ballplayer for their club. The Red Sox and Mets haven't learned that yet, and probably never will. Don't think for a second the Yanks don't do their homework.

 

Actually, no they didn't. They had a few good youngsters, but just like any other farm system, thats all they had. Most of their players on the Yankees team years ago and now, are from other teams. With accpection of a few. What happened to this so called star Drew Henson? Yeah, he sucks. He doesn't have a future in baseball, and he is looking to move onto football. Henson is considerd one of their best prospects, ouch..

 

Look, I watched the Columbus Clippers play a LOT over the past ten years, and they were DAMN GOOD. Filled to the brim with top-notch prospects, they used to be. In addition to the 10 permanent major leaguers that are on the Yankees roster (Posada, Soriano, Jeter, Spencer, Williams, Nick Johnson, Juan Rivera, Mariano Rivera, Ramiro Mendoza, Pettitte), they've also traded away a ton of prospects. My brothers would know who they traded better than I would, but Mike Lowell, Ricky Ledee, and Ted Lilly come to mind. Marus Thames is probably the brightest star they have now. And Henson won't be bad if he can learn some plate discipline, which takes time.

 

I wouldn't call it steamrolling, but being in the playoffs, and on top of the AL East for around 6 straight years sure as hell is dominating.

 

Other teams dominate. The Braves have won 10 of the last 11 NL East titles.

 

"We really need another pitcher, we have a few guys injured and going on the DL.. Oh! I have an idea! Lets go buy a number 1 ace from the Tigers! I mean c'mon, they can't refuse! We will give throw in Ted Lilly, who can be traded to the A's, and the Tigers can get some first basemen! The Tigers shouldn't care, right? Its not like they are gonna use Jeff Weaver!"

 

You know, I have issues with the Weaver trade, too, but I have a few things to say about it. First, the trade hasn't exactly worked as of right now (though Weaver's got a bright future once he gets used to pinstripes). Second, it's not like Ted Lilly isn't going to be a quality pitcher in Oakland. He will be. Think about Hudson, Mulder, Zito, Lidle, and Lilly as a starting rotation. Wow. Third, if you're the Tigers, and you're NOT going to make payroll (as the rumor went), you gotta dump salary somewhere.

 

Yankees: "I'm gonna cry and whine like a little bitch because the Red Sox got Cliff Floyd and we didn't! Must've been the MLB trying to screw us over, huh? Because remember, us .. we, the Yankees have all the money in the world, and we deserve to buy anyone in the world we want. But .. get this, SOME OTHER TEAM, OH MY.. other than the Yankees got a good player, lets go cry and whine!"

 

Well, if it wasn't for fans with the attitude you seem to have, Yankees fans wouldn't have this whole conspiracy-theory complex. Everyones bitches and bitches and bitches about the Yankees buying players, and buying championships, and getting away with fiscal murder, and boohoo, wah-wah ... so why shouldn't the Yankees think MLB is trying to screw them? Everyone else, it seems, would LOVE to see that. I'm not saying they're right, but I can understand where they're coming from. And if people like you wouldn't point their finger at the Yankees whenever something bad happens in baseball, maybe there wouldn't have been a backlash about the Floyd trade.

 

ONLY in the MLB are teams sacrificing their best players (Philly with Rolen ...

 

Whoa, whoa, whoa. The Phillies didn't sacrifice Rolen, they got something in return for him. He was out of Philly like the fat girl in dodgeball at the end of the year. I don't think the Phillies are run right at all, and I wish the entire city of Philadelphia would blow up most of the time, but they did what they had to do with Rolen.

 

Teams like the Tigers, Devil Rays, and Brewers would basically recieve money for being poorly run and incompetant.

 

Hey, as long as their "reward" is forced to be used on the franchise and not pocketed, I have no problems with that. Then, at least, they'll almost be forced to field a competeitive team.

 

Cometitive field? The NFL and NBA have more than their share of crappy teams each year. The difference is you don't know who they'll be.

 

Actually, I believe I read a stat on ESPN.com that says half of all NFL games are decided by a touchdown or less. And I believe it. Sure, you go 5-11. But you've got a chance to win at least eight of your games, by the percentages. Baseball's not that kind of game, to be sure, but the NFL DOES have the kind of competitive field you'd like to see.

 

Why? It's based on America's fine system of capitalism. Wall Street uses the same system.

 

OK, here's my finishing rant. After this, I'm done.

 

Baseball isn't like the business world at all. Tons of businesses fail outrighty, close up shop, fold, go away never to return. Basically, in baseball terms, businesses "contract" all the time. But major league ballclubs don't contract like that. MLB is talking about contracting two teams, and the vast majority of fans are up in arms over it. So, obviously, with such vehement opposition to contraction, the baseball world and the business world are different. Why, though? Why doesn't major league baseball just take these beleaguered franchises out back and end their misery? Well, what exactly defines a beleaguered franchise? I mean, is a strong franchise one that is fiscally sound? Because then, you can't contract the Brewers. They suck, and can't draw flies, but they made money last year. Is it a team that draws fans safe? Because Texas is in huge debt, and they can't win a game, but the bring 35,000 fans a game. Same with Colorado. Or do you save a team that's good? Oakland and Minnesota are small-market teams that don't make money, but they lead their divisions. What defines a successful business - profit - does not define a successful baseball franchise. And that's why you can't treat baseball as "just a business".

 

LUNATIC

- Pimpin' ho's and clockin' a grip like my name was Dolemite.

 

EDIT: HOLY FUCK, I'M SORRY THIS IS SO LONG

[Guest OctoberBlood]

Fun discussion, I am really enjoying TSM since my arrival. I'll reply.

 

Yeah, and look how well that worked out for the Mets. It's not just that the Yankees go out and have the capital to get these people - they do their homework and get the right kind of ballplayer for their club. The Red Sox and Mets haven't learned that yet, and probably never will. Don't think for a second the Yanks don't do their homework.

 

I never said the Yankees aren't smart, they are smart and rich. But, that wasn't the point. Sure, the Mets did the same thing, and aren't winning - they still did it! The point is, I see my Reds trading for alot of players, but scrubs, and potential stars .. not automatic stars. We get Dempster, Moehler, and Estes while the Yankees get Weaver, Mets get Alomar, Burnitz, and the Sox get Floyd. I am all for trading away stars, but when teams like this get the advantage, and can bid so much money, if you're the Reds... you have no shot. What you pointed out was so true, but wasn't the point in which we were discussing in this thread.

 

Other teams dominate. The Braves have won 10 of the last 11 NL East titles.

 

And they did it with their own meat. They have money, but they sure as hell didn't go out and spend every penny to get every star on a losing team. Granted, the Braves did make alot of moves - but are they compared to what the Yankees do? Hell No. The Braves did it with Tom Glavine, who was a Brave all his career, Smoltz, Maddux, then a few medicore pitchers who proved to be good pickups. Completely diffen't from the Yanks.

 

Well, if it wasn't for fans with the attitude you seem to have, Yankees fans wouldn't have this whole conspiracy-theory complex. Everyones bitches and bitches and bitches about the Yankees buying players, and buying championships, and getting away with fiscal murder, and boohoo, wah-wah ... so why shouldn't the Yankees think MLB is trying to screw them? Everyone else, it seems, would LOVE to see that. I'm not saying they're right, but I can understand where they're coming from. And if people like you wouldn't point their finger at the Yankees whenever something bad happens in baseball, maybe there wouldn't have been a backlash about the Floyd trade.

 

That is nonsense, and you know it. That wasn't even the case.

 

Whoa, whoa, whoa. The Phillies didn't sacrifice Rolen, they got something in return for him. He was out of Philly like the fat girl in dodgeball at the end of the year. I don't think the Phillies are run right at all, and I wish the entire city of Philadelphia would blow up most of the time, but they did what they had to do with Rolen.

 

Very true. Polanco has been batting around .300 since coming to Philly. Mike Timlin has a sub 3.00 era, and is a dominate vetern reliever, which the Phillies really needed. Then, they also god BUD SMITH. Who, might I add threw a no hitter last year, and has all the potential in the world.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

They should contract it into the Yankees and the Cubs, I'd watch every game were that the case..heh heh.

[Guest MD2020]

No to get off-topic from the discussion of structure of baseball, but I wanted to add one sign that I saw a picture of:

 

"You can't go on strike! Where else can I get 4 beers for $33.50? (or something like that)

[Guest El Hijo Del Lunatic]

MORE LONG-ASS POSTING!!

 

I never said the Yankees aren't smart, they are smart and rich. But, that wasn't the point. Sure, the Mets did the same thing, and aren't winning - they still did it! The point is, I see my Reds trading for alot of players, but scrubs, and potential stars .. not automatic stars. We get Dempster, Moehler, and Estes while the Yankees get Weaver, Mets get Alomar, Burnitz, and the Sox get Floyd. I am all for trading away stars, but when teams like this get the advantage, and can bid so much money, if you're the Reds... you have no shot. What you pointed out was so true, but wasn't the point in which we were discussing in this thread.

 

The Reds could do it. The Diamondbacks aren't exactly a large-market team, but they pay a TON of money to high-quality free agents - Johnson, Schilling, Matt Williams, Mark Grace. I know they haven't been around for a while, but they've still gone out and made the quality acquisitions they needed to make the promised land. The Reds could do it, if they wanted. I mean, they'd have to be happy to swim in debt, but aren't most teams swimming in debt as it is?

 

And they did it with their own meat. They have money, but they sure as hell didn't go out and spend every penny to get every star on a losing team. Granted, the Braves did make alot of moves - but are they compared to what the Yankees do? Hell No. The Braves did it with Tom Glavine, who was a Brave all his career, Smoltz, Maddux, then a few medicore pitchers who proved to be good pickups. Completely diffen't from the Yanks.

 

They're not all that different, actually. Let's first remember that the Braves acquired Greg Maddux the year after he won a Cy Young with the Cubs. They went and picked up the Sheff this year. They've got Vinny Castilla at third. They got McGriff in his prime, and paid for Marquis Grissom and Kenny Lofton for a year each. They spent a LOT on Galarraga. I mean, those are big-time players they got.

 

That is nonsense, and you know it. That wasn't even the case.

 

What? Every time the Yankees go out and get a guy, everyone's all in an uproar about how "the Yankees buy every player available", but the Red Sox get Cliff Floyd from a team owned by major league baseball, and Yankees fans aren't allowed to get pissed? Not even a little bit? Plus, you and I both know that if the Yankees didn't trade for Mondesi, they would've gone after Floyd. Think of the uproar THAT would've caused if Floyd got traded from Montreal to the BRONX. But it would've been ok to be pissed about that, probably.

 

Very true. Polanco has been batting around .300 since coming to Philly. Mike Timlin has a sub 3.00 era, and is a dominate vetern reliever, which the Phillies really needed. Then, they also god BUD SMITH. Who, might I add threw a no hitter last year, and has all the potential in the world.

 

Bud Smith and Placido Polanco might be in Triple-A next year. I can't see Smith automatically starting in Philly's rotation next year (Padilla, Duckworth, Wolf, Myers, and either Smith, Joe Roa or Robert Person), and Polanco will hear footsteps next spring from Chase Utley.

 

P.S. MD2020, you officially have the coolest name EVER.

 

LUNATIC

- Pimpin' ho's and clockin' a grip like my name was Dolemite.

[Guest OctoberBlood]

The Reds could do it.

 

No.. no they can't. They have one of the lowest/worst budgets in baseball.

 

They're not all that different, actually. Let's first remember that the Braves acquired Greg Maddux the year after he won a Cy Young with the Cubs. They went and picked up the Sheff this year. They've got Vinny Castilla at third. They got McGriff in his prime, and paid for Marquis Grissom and Kenny Lofton for a year each. They spent a LOT on Galarraga. I mean, those are big-time players they got.

 

Very true. The Maddux trade, when it happened - had to be one of the worst in baseball by the Cubs.

 

What? Every time the Yankees go out and get a guy, everyone's all in an uproar about how "the Yankees buy every player available", but the Red Sox get Cliff Floyd from a team owned by major league baseball, and Yankees fans aren't allowed to get pissed? Not even a little bit? Plus, you and I both know that if the Yankees didn't trade for Mondesi, they would've gone after Floyd. Think of the uproar THAT would've caused if Floyd got traded from Montreal to the BRONX. But it would've been ok to be pissed about that, probably.

 

I wasn't talking about the Fans. It was the Yankees MANAGEMENT/BRASS who were complaining to MLB about them SCREWING the Yankees. Sure, the fans complained, but the fans don't matter, when George - YOU'RE BOSS - cries like a baby about a trade another team made, is when it gets out of hand .. and basicly pathetic.

 

Bud Smith and Placido Polanco might be in Triple-A next year. I can't see Smith automatically starting in Philly's rotation next year (Padilla, Duckworth, Wolf, Myers, and either Smith, Joe Roa or Robert Person), and Polanco will hear footsteps next spring from Chase Utley.

 

Phillies have a bright future. Smith may be in AAA next year, but Polanco will not be. He is a very good UT player. He can play basicly anywhere.

[Guest El Hijo Del Lunatic]

No.. no they can't. They have one of the lowest/worst budgets in baseball.

 

Sure they can. They set their own budget, don't they?

 

I wasn't talking about the Fans. It was the Yankees MANAGEMENT/BRASS who were complaining to MLB about them SCREWING the Yankees. Sure, the fans complained, but the fans don't matter, when George - YOU'RE BOSS - cries like a baby about a trade another team made, is when it gets out of hand .. and basicly pathetic.

 

Meh. Half of that is Yankees - Red Sox bad blood. I'm sure George wouldn't have said anything if it were, say, the Dodgers picking up Floyd. Or the Cubs.

 

LUNATIC

- Pimpin' ho's and clockin' a grip like my name was Dolemite.

[Guest OctoberBlood]

Sure they can. They set their own budget, don't they?

 

Oh, I'm sorry - we don't have some rich owner who can go out and spend all the money in the world, and buy out teams stars.

[Guest The Czech Republic]

Here's a crazy idea: Merge the Expos and the Blue Jays and take the best ones from each team, and call them the Canadian Shields. They can play in both towns for home games.

 

 

 

I'll stick to the tennis and football discussions, bye-bye.

[Guest alkeiper]

Very true. The Maddux trade, when it happened - had to be one of the worst in baseball by the Cubs.

 

Maddux was a free agent aquisition.

 

They've got Vinny Castilla at third.

 

Castilla is the worst 3rd baseman in baseball.

 

Bud Smith and Placido Polanco might be in Triple-A next year. I can't see Smith automatically starting in Philly's rotation next year (Padilla, Duckworth, Wolf, Myers, and either Smith, Joe Roa or Robert Person), and Polanco will hear footsteps next spring from Chase Utley.

 

Polanco can play any infield position. If Chase Utley wins the 3rd base job, Polanco will habe a place. Person is gone after this year. I would think Roa would have the inside track on a job, but Smith has a future. Remember that along with his no-hitter, he also has TWO AA no-hitters to his credit.

 

Most teams that build with free agents pay for it down the road. The Diamondbacks will be in serious trouble when Schilling and Johnson depart. What happens in 5 years when Giambi and Mussina are declining and still making $15 million. Look at just about every dynasty, and you'll see a common theme. Farm system products.

[Guest El Hijo Del Lunatic]

Oh, I'm sorry - we don't have some rich owner who can go out and spend all the money in the world, and buy out teams stars.

 

Hey, I wouldn't call the D'Backs fiscally blessed - Jerry Colangelo isn't exactly Johnny Fortune 500. But, they're paying a lot of money to a lot of people. Da Prospectus (www.baseballprospectus.com) sez Arizona's running about $36 million in the red. And the Reds are up a couple million after revenue sharing. So, if Cincinnati's willing to carry that kind of debt, they can buy whoever they want.

 

LUNATIC

- Pimpin' ho's and clockin' a grip like my name was Dolemite.

[Guest OctoberBlood]

Castilla is the worst 3rd baseman in baseball.

 

Acutally, hes the best in the NL. (Defense)

[Guest alkeiper]

You can't possibly tell me Castilla's defense is so good that it makes him the best 3B in the league. He's not even good enough to start. Wes Helms is a better option.

[Guest OctoberBlood]

You can't possibly tell me Castilla's defense is so good that it makes him the best 3B in the league. He's not even good enough to start. Wes Helms is a better option.

The numbers prove it, my friend. He has only made 6 errors, which proves to be the best % of 3rd basemen in the NL. I've been watching the Braves all season on TBS, and have seen many great plays from ol' Vinny. Bobby Cox says hes the most underrated defensive 3rd basemen in the game. Everyone expects him to hit, but no one expects him to play good D.