Guest BaldFish Report post Posted August 31, 2002 I really don't get why the smark community seems to hate Lesnar so much. He's a fresh face in the upper card, he's getting a monster push, and frankly, he's more entertaining to watch in the ring that HHH, Taker, or Austin. Granted that the guys we want to see pushed (Angle, Benoit, Guerrero, RVD (somewhat) ) aren't getting the pushes we want them to have. But here's the thing: someone's going to have to beat Lesnar, eventually, once the heat is gone and the winning streak has done its storyline work. Someone's going to go over him. And the writing staff HAS to know that Nash over Goldberg was insanely detrimental to WCW's popularity. Lesnar's going to have to job to someone who needs credibility. And that's a way to get the storyline-damaged Angle, Benoit, Guerrero, or RVD along the road to a character renaissance. Although, frankly, I don't think Angle is as damaged as you all believe. He's got great crowd heat, with the "You Suck"s and his claiming of the "What?" catchphrase. He has great matches and makes all his opponents look good, and yet he looks good too. Frankly, I think Angle is in about the same position as HHH, or the pre-departure Austin--an obvious main eventer who just isn't doing anything with the belt at the moment. And I don't agree with this argument that Lesnar has no heat. Granted that he's not as over as HHH, Rock, Austin, or Taker were at the height of their popularity, but that's what the title is REALLY for--not to reward those at the top of their game, but to be USED (in conjunction with the storyline) to make new stars. HHH wasn't over until he used the belt and the boss's daughter to get over. Austin needed the belt and a feud with Vince. And Rock is a special case--he had natural acting abilities. Taker got over by being around for so long (it's true!) Hogan got over by... hm. How DID Hogan get over, anyways? At any rate: I think Lesnar DOES have the abilities to get over as a result of this title reign. If they give him a better run than Jericho, anyway--his entire run was booked poorly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RicFlairGlory Report post Posted August 31, 2002 Granted that he's not as over as HHH, Rock, Austin, or Taker were at the height of their popularity, but that's what the title is REALLY for--not to reward those at the top of their game, but to be USED (in conjunction with the storyline) to make new stars No. Its used to elevate great mid-carders to that level, not to make some OVW rookie who looks like he does nothing but grunt and lift weights into the next Goldberg. The belt should legitimize someone who is very over with the crowd. They're trying to use the belt to get somebody over, and thats just foolish. Nobody cares about someone who's only been around for 5 months. Its that Bossman "get the fuck off my TV so I can watch RVD" heat that he's getting Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Angle-plex Report post Posted August 31, 2002 I really don't get why the smark community seems to hate Lesnar so much. He's a fresh face in the upper card, he's getting a monster push, and frankly, he's more entertaining to watch in the ring that HHH, Taker, or Austin. Granted that the guys we want to see pushed (Angle, Benoit, Guerrero, RVD (somewhat) ) aren't getting the pushes we want them to have. But here's the thing: someone's going to have to beat Lesnar, eventually, once the heat is gone and the winning streak has done its storyline work. Someone's going to go over him. And the writing staff HAS to know that Nash over Goldberg was insanely detrimental to WCW's popularity. Lesnar's going to have to job to someone who needs credibility. And that's a way to get the storyline-damaged Angle, Benoit, Guerrero, or RVD along the road to a character renaissance. Although, frankly, I don't think Angle is as damaged as you all believe. He's got great crowd heat, with the "You Suck"s and his claiming of the "What?" catchphrase. He has great matches and makes all his opponents look good, and yet he looks good too. Frankly, I think Angle is in about the same position as HHH, or the pre-departure Austin--an obvious main eventer who just isn't doing anything with the belt at the moment. And I don't agree with this argument that Lesnar has no heat. Granted that he's not as over as HHH, Rock, Austin, or Taker were at the height of their popularity, but that's what the title is REALLY for--not to reward those at the top of their game, but to be USED (in conjunction with the storyline) to make new stars. HHH wasn't over until he used the belt and the boss's daughter to get over. Austin needed the belt and a feud with Vince. And Rock is a special case--he had natural acting abilities. Taker got over by being around for so long (it's true!) Hogan got over by... hm. How DID Hogan get over, anyways? At any rate: I think Lesnar DOES have the abilities to get over as a result of this title reign. If they give him a better run than Jericho, anyway--his entire run was booked poorly. He's not better than Austin in any way. Austin always put on good matches. Yes, Lensar SHOULD job to RVD, Angle, or Benoit. But just because he should doesn't mean it will happen. Anyone who knows anything about WWE in the past year knows that Triple H has a better chance of beating Lesnar first than any of those other guys. Angle has been damaged a little. He still gets heat, yes, but as we can tell by our current undisputed champ, heat means nothing. Angle's been buried in the midcard for the last few months. Austin, Rock, and Undertaker were already really over when they got the belt. Triple H wasn't as over as the other 3, but he was more over than Lesnar currently is. I think Lesnar COULD be a great champ, but if they have to sacrafice Angle, Benoit, RVD, and others, it won't be worth it. There are more talented and more over people that deserve the belt much more than Lesnar does, and I think that's why all the smarks are mad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted August 31, 2002 Fresh isn't always good. I would be FRESH to fill swimming pools with man eating sharks. Angle is nowhere near the level on HHH or Austin. He is a joke. And the belt is used to elevate over competutors to the next level. Brock is eliminated. It's Funny, I can think of SIX people who would benefit from a strong world title push, and they give it to Lesnar, a guy who couldn't get heat beating up the number one face ( I could get heat if I mauled RVD every week) and who has really bad matches routinely. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest AndrewTS Report post Posted August 31, 2002 Hogan is over from a combination of nostalgia and from being great at playing to the crowd. Skills and age aside, he's still a larger-than-life figure in wrestling, so much that even anti-Hogan propaganda by the WWE couldn't kill him. Plus, turning full-fledged face after being heel for so long helped. He kinda had a weird composite of past gimmicks (Hollywood and the Hulkster) going on. However--back to Lesnar. Like Anglesault said--get over first, then get the belt. And as much as I'd like for some one who can put on good matches to get the title, it isn't a requirement. Austin post-neck injury was still OVER like mad. Hogan was OVER in the AWA and when he came to the WWF. Even Goldberg was OVER in WCW, even if he had piped in chants sometimes. Brock does get heat, but not main-eventer heat. And I think this mega-push will backfire, and Lesnar will be damaged goods for a while. Maybe then they'll let him wrestle and maybe develop a character. In his current state, he's already getting extremely stale and wasn't even trusted to main event Smackdown. The number one contendership higher on the card than the champion's match (I don't know if it was for the title or not, not that it matters)? He's not a terrible worker in my opinion, but he's still very green. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Report post Posted August 31, 2002 I remember when RVD arrived...was fresh and insanely over. Why didn't they just throw the title on him willy nilly? Oh yeah...cause that's a fucking stupid idea. Flash forward 1 year. ... It's still a fucking stupid idea...made worse by the fact that Brock isn't over or good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dmann2000 Report post Posted August 31, 2002 I want to know, is Lesnar in HHH territory in that you don't like the man period or is he merely just the unfortunete soul being given too much too soon and therefore the object of so much anger. Let's face it, if you were a 24 year old kid 6 months into the WWE and were told you were going to be champion, would you really have the humility to say "no boss, let Benoit get the rub, he's been around longer and deserves it." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted August 31, 2002 No, of course not. But if I was told I was getting the title over worthy people (I'm sure Brock knew before he debuted) I would go out there, work my ass off, have good matches, and get myself over to TRY and justify my push top the boys in the back. Brock has done nothing of the sort. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Report post Posted August 31, 2002 I, personally feel bad for Brock. He has a boat load of potential...which will now be fucked in the ass. 1. He can't really ever win a title other than the world title again...or it'll be stupid. 2. He'll end up returning jobs to any big name they put him over. It's going to be a bumpy road for him ahead...and that sucks. At least he's getting paid well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dmann2000 Report post Posted August 31, 2002 You seriously think Brock is doing this deliberately? What secret meeting were you a part of? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dmann2000 Report post Posted August 31, 2002 Bps, I see what you're saying Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted August 31, 2002 The best thing for Brock after his title reign is be part of a Tag Team and help elevate his partner - they have a tag run, etc, and then split and feud. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted August 31, 2002 You seriously think Brock is doing this deliberately? What secret meeting were you a part of? No, he not doing this on purpose. But he should go into every match knowing that he is getting a "right place, right time" push and make an attempt to justify it. And I'm sorry, but that thrilling series with the Hardyz did not. Look at it this way. how must someone like Chris Benoit feel, going out there every week, getting heat, having good/great matches, and GOING no where, while Brock gets the title becuase he won some random lottery or something (I still don't understand who's idea it was to push Lesnar of all people to the top) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Trivia247 Report post Posted August 31, 2002 asides the fact they do have actual Plans for Brock, his World title holding seems familar to the Big Show holding the belt where he was a Big Powerful guy and that should have been end of story. but the Smark community and generally the fans didn't buy the title reign. Espicaly since Big Show was just a replacement for Austin. Brock getting the World title could be in a way a slap to the face to those upper cardsmen who been in the WWE long enough to get their first World title run. But Brock is like the Anti Goldberg Monster Push. but it all still looks to end up a Brock vs angle match for the title. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Metal Maniac Report post Posted August 31, 2002 You know, I really think this is the ultimate example of something Keith wrote about in a rant a while ago. The WWF has the ability to get anyone over, at any time. However, this means that the WWF picks and chooses who they want to get over, and they get them over, at any cost, then justify it later. Of course, this doesn't always work *coughcoughBILLYGUNNcough*. But really, I think that when Brock first showed up, the decision to put the belt on him was already made. I mean, you could have tossed about a dozen other people in Brock's spot - And they all could have done just as well, or better. What about a returning Mike Awesome? Give him the push, and he'd be as, if not more, over then Brock. The same applies to any big guys with at least one killer move. I'm just saying - The WWF could have done this with ANYONE. They just picked Lesnar because he has a few cool moves, and a good look. Everything else isn't important to them, it seems. Also, I don't think he's fucked when he loses the belt. He has a ready-made face turn. Heymen costs him the belt, so Brock snaps and gives him his *excellent* SSP. I've seen him do it - Kidman should be ashamed. Anyway, that'd get him over as a face in about 3 seconds. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Olympic Slam Report post Posted August 31, 2002 While I'm opposed to Brock holding a belt representing the WWF and WCW championships, he is starting to get a fairly decent reaction now that he has the belt. Nothing near the levels of Angle who is insanely over and easily the top heel in the company. The company MUST make new stars and if giving Brock the belt helps him get over enough to be a major main event heel, then so be it. Desperate times call for such action. The next step is making MORE main event faces. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Report post Posted August 31, 2002 To me...Brock is a slap in the face to RVD more than anyone. I mean...sure Benoit deserves it more but he'd been out injured. And RVD completely broke out like no other wrestler had in some time. I mean..he's still ahead of Edge...and he's been a project for a long time. It would be a slap in the face to Angle, if I didn't think that Angle would be the one to take the strap off of him. It would be a slap in the face to Jericho if they gave the title to a green guy and actually gave him a chance at a good reign (that Jericho never had)...but they look to be booking Brock like a joke too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted August 31, 2002 I say Booker too,who has putten up with all the shit the WWF put him through, to get HIMSELF over and semi-legit contender status. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest El Psycho Diablo Report post Posted August 31, 2002 Hardly. Lesnar's going to be crammed down our throats, bah gawd. He's "special". (Meaning we mention him at least once a match, every match, and in segments.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted August 31, 2002 The company MUST make new stars and if giving Brock the belt helps him get over enough to be a major main event heel, then so be it. Desperate times call for such action. The next step is making MORE main event faces. Because lord knows, if you need to make new stars, and most over face RVD and most over heel Kurt Angle are on the cusp and just need a real push to bcome mega stars, you pull Brock fucking Lesnar out of the woodwork and try (and ultimately, fail) to make him a star. ::sigh:: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Olympic Slam Report post Posted August 31, 2002 I say Booker too,who has putten up with all the shit the WWF put him through, to get HIMSELF over and semi-legit contender status. Booker has been treated like crap ever since day one. While I don't particularly enjoy his ring work (too slow and lethargic) I believe he belongs in the main event. He's funny, has tons of charisma and is definitely over enough to go up against HHH or Brock. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Trivia247 Report post Posted August 31, 2002 New Stars DESPERATELY for the Main event... people that Edge RVD Benoit, Eddie Guerrero can bend over and let them Stand on their backs just to get OVER... Too Paraphrase what Trent Wilson said in The Phantom. "Brock Lesnar...What a CHEAP JUNGLE TRICK!" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted August 31, 2002 If I ever get into Vince's office, I'm going to bring in a copy of RVD's, Angle's, and Brock's matches. When RVD and Angle come out, I will repeatedly smash his head into the tv until he admits that they get the biggest responses in the company. Then I will have him compare it to Brock's. And I will refuse to leave the room until I get an acceptable explanantion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Trivia247 Report post Posted August 31, 2002 You would have to separate Vince from HHH Steph and Heyman with a Chainsaw first before you could ever get him "Alone" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Olympic Slam Report post Posted August 31, 2002 If I ever get into Vince's office, I'm going to bring in a copy of RVD's, Angle's, and Brock's matches. When RVD and Angle come out, I will repeatedly smash his head into the tv until he admits that they get the biggest responses in the company. Then I will have him compare it to Brock's. And I will refuse to leave the room until I get an acceptable explanantion. The thing about it is, EVERYONE knows RVD and Angle are already over. Giving them belts is great and all, but who are they gonna wrestle against? Again, new stars must be made in addition to the stars they already have. As it is now, they have HHH, Undertaker and Angle as their top three men. They need to push push push their talent up the ladder and not look back. Brock may be a heatless wonder, but then again, every wrestler started out that way at one point. If Brock can't get over with the belt AND Heyman, he'll definitely be the biggest flop ever. The fans are slowly but surely coming around with Lesnar, so naturally the writers fucked it up and put him on ONE show. Great way to show off your prized possesion guys. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted August 31, 2002 You would have to separate Vince from HHH Steph and Heyman with a Chainsaw first before you could ever get him "Alone" You know, this could be foolish bravado, but I think I could take Heyman and Steph. I could out walk HHH as he's running after me, and lock him out of the office. Again, new stars must be made in addition to the stars they already have. Fuck You Benoit. Fuck You Jericho. Fuck You Eddy. Fuck You Booker. Brock gets the shot. Right? The fans are slowly but surely coming around with Lesnar, Maybe he'll get those IC level pops by Royal rumble! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Report post Posted August 31, 2002 Who are they going to wrestle? Who is Brock wrestling? TAKER? The WWE doens't want to create anything new at the top... they just needed someone new for the regulars to face. Remember the bps plane for rebuilding...step 1. Fire Taker and HHH. Then we'll get something new...and maybe people will actually tune in to see the RAW main events...unlike recent weeks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jobber of the Week Report post Posted August 31, 2002 As I've said before, it's not that Lesnar is bad. It's just that they could make a Serious Ass-Kicker type out of him that will get a response, if only they'd dump this stupid Goldbergian "never get pinned" shit. Anyone could reach world title in a few months if they were guaranteed not to lose. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Trivia247 Report post Posted August 31, 2002 You would have to separate Vince from HHH Steph and Heyman with a Chainsaw first before you could ever get him "Alone" You know, this could be foolish bravado, but I think I could take Heyman and Steph. I could out walk HHH as he's running after me, and lock him out of the office. lol when he's chasing you throw a bananna peel behind you and he'll trip and tear out his quad. Evidently clumbsiness is a Cliq Trait. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted August 31, 2002 . As it is now, they have HHH, Undertaker and Angle as their top three men. I have to argue this. Taker and Triple H are the top two. Angle is three by default, because of all the midcarders in limbo, he ranks the highest. That's like saying that after Survivor Series 97, HBK, Steve Austin The Rock and KEN SHAMROCK were forging the path to the new era. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
