Sep 6th bits & bobs

[Guest DeputyHawk]

1----Big bomb goes off in Kabul outside a TV & satellite store, killing and injuring many. President Hamid Karzai survives an assasination attempt while attending his brother's wedding in Kandahar, saved by his US forces bodyguards. The two main suspects in organising the attack - Taleban & Al Queda remennts obviously, or possibly Gulbuddin Hekmatyar who seems to have showed up from his Iranian exile offering to work with anyone whatsoever, even the Taleban, to get the US out. My question - after effectively positioning Karzai as leader of the new regime (not first choice for the job, but hey), don't we now owe it to the country to help them outside of just Kabul, where the real danger lies? Where warlords are still tussling over local authority, and the old extremist forces are simply regrouping? Obviously we shouldn't just send in peacekeeping troops gung-ho across the whole of Afghanistan - they might as well paint huge red bullseyes on their backs - but shouldn't there be more of a concentrated effort to aid and equip a national Afghan army to prevent the Terror from regaining a foothold? On recent evidence, the country's new regime is foundering badly. Help me out here (esp Marney) - I realise I'm not in the know as much as others, but why the apparent lack of military back-up once the commitment has been made?

 

2----Well, Tony's finally taken the tumble and I for one am not complaining about it. The RAF participated in yesterday's bombing of Iraq's H-3 airbase west of Baghdad despite mounting pressure to recall parliament before a firm decision to unequivocally back Bush is made. I know this probably sounds hypocritical, but since Blair has (allegedly) seen this 'does-it-or-doesn't-it-exist' irrefutable evidence that the US posseses and is preparing a dossier to show to parliament, I trust his judgement and stand behind him 100%. Maybe it's double standards, maybe it's just a case of 'better the devil you know', but I just trush Blair's judgement a hell of a lot more than Bush's. If he's been shown the evidence & believes it is the right course of action for the UK to take, then I'm with him. Conversely, I think Gerhard Schroder is behaving like a bit of an ass in Germany. I understand that popular opinion is against War with Iraq, I understand he has a general election to fight very soon, but for goodness sake just do what Tony did until he'd made up his mind - sit on the fence. Outright condemnation of the initiative, coupled with the threat to withdraw German tanks equipped to withstand biological & chemical weapons from the area, is not what Bush & Blair (especially Blair) need to rally the global community around them right now. Silly Schroder. I know this seems like a complete u-turn from me, but it's not - I just have allegiance towards my flag too. I still say war's not the best option, and it's still by no means a certainty, but I believe Tony is a great leader and I believe he will ultimatly do the right thing, whatever that transpires to be.

[Zorin Industries 0]

2----Well, Tony's finally taken the tumble and I for one am not complaining about it. The RAF participated in yesterday's bombing of Iraq's H-3 airbase west of Baghdad despite mounting pressure to recall parliament before a firm decision to unequivocally back Bush is made. I know this probably sounds hypocritical, but since Blair has (allegedly) seen this 'does-it-or-doesn't-it-exist' irrefutable evidence that the US posseses and is preparing a dossier to show to parliament, I trust his judgement and stand behind him 100%. Maybe it's double standards, maybe it's just a case of 'better the devil you know', but I just trush Blair's judgement a hell of a lot more than Bush's. If he's been shown the evidence & believes it is the right course of action for the UK to take, then I'm with him. Conversely, I think Gerhard Schroder is behaving like a bit of an ass in Germany. I understand that popular opinion is against War with Iraq, I understand he has a general election to fight very soon, but for goodness sake just do what Tony did until he'd made up his mind - sit on the fence. Outright condemnation of the initiative, coupled with the threat to withdraw German tanks equipped to withstand biological & chemical weapons from the area, is not what Bush & Blair (especially Blair) need to rally the global community around them right now. Silly Schroder. I know this seems like a complete u-turn from me, but it's not - I just have allegiance towards my flag too. I still say war's not the best option, and it's still by no means a certainty, but I believe Tony is a great leader and I believe he will ultimatly do the right thing, whatever that transpires to be.

We'll we knew this was coming. My thoughts are that I will be glad to see the back of Saddam, and the invaison will go down without many problems.

 

Problem solved? Not bloody likely.

 

I have said before and will say again, if their is not a proper plan for Iraq after Saddam is toppled then the Middle East will explode, and it will affect EVERYONE. Even if their is a plan for Iraq after the attack, I still expect a hell of a lot of trouble in the Middle East for years to come.

 

I WANT the attack to succed, and I WANT the aftermath to be relativly peaceful, but I don't think it will be, and I thnik the consquences of what we do here will be felt for years to come.

[Guest DeputyHawk]

I have said before and will say again, if their is not a proper plan for Iraq after Saddam is toppled then the Middle East will explode, and it will affect EVERYONE. Even if their is a plan for Iraq after the attack, I still expect a hell of a lot of trouble in the Middle East for years to come.

 

I WANT the attack to succed, and I WANT the aftermath to be relativly peaceful, but I don't think it will be, and I thnik the consquences of what we do here will be felt for years to come.

Agreed. The process is well & truly on the way now. Blair will get the support needed from the international community, or the majority of Europe at least, because he is a more respected statesman than Bush, and after that we can unfortunately only trust the judgement of those who control the events from on high. I pray they have meticulously laid out plans for the aftermath of this or, like the Arab League have warned, it will "open the gates of hell" in the Middle East. I'm curious, which by necessity comes first - opening the gates of hell, or unleashing it? I guess it's a chicken & egg type scenario. Joke: chicken lies in bed looking pissed off at the egg next to it which has a contented smile and is quietly dozing. chicken sighs in frustration and turns over, muttering "that answers that question". Sorry, lame I know.

[Guest danielisthor]

As long as the Taliban and Al-Qaeda are still operating, no government official will be safe. Even then i don't believe the region will be secure and stable with all the warlords wanting power. The US military should stay there and continue the manhunts of both the Taliban and Al-Qaeda.

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

Schroeder is in a tough situation due to the elections, as well as the fact that the idea of spending money on an Iraq war while the country is drowning in floods wouldn't go over well. Blair on the other hand has free reign to be as hawkish as he wants.

[Zorin Industries 0]

DeputyHawk, do you think Blair should recall Parliment before he makes a desicion?

 

I certainly think he should. Without discussing Parliment, I think he would alienate a lot of people in the country and make himself look quite bad.

[Guest DeputyHawk]

DeputyHawk, do you think Blair should recall Parliment before he makes a desicion?  I certainly think he should. Without discussing Parliment, I think he would alienate a lot of people in the country and make himself look quite bad.

 

yup, muchly i do. simmilar to seeking u.n approval, i don't think it will make a blind bit of difference to the outcome, but i think at least the gesture towards democratic decision making should be given lip service in order not to completely discredit it when the u.s. (and now the u.k) need to throw down the 'international rules' punk card anytime in the future.

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

Along those lines, I think Bush is making a good decision by going in front of the UN and demanding Saddam re-admit weapons inspectors or face the consequences. Now if he refuses, the US/UK can easily put forward a reason why an attack is necessary, and will probably get more support too.