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[Zorin Industries 0]

I have to say this has been A LOT more interesting to read than the 9/11 thread in CE, and a lot better reasoned. I'll probably sound like a cold-hearted bastard (which I am sometimes) but I just don't feel anything for 9/11. It just didn't have any real effect on me except to say "Holy Shit" on the day, but after that I just got on with my life.

 

I do think that the sense of Patriotism after the event seems insincere, but its just like human nature to jumo on the bandwagon after something like this. I prefer cold logic to overemotion but thats just me.

 

P.S: Alina, your'e still looking good in your sig

[Guest MarvinisaLunatic]

Did anyone fill out one of those living tribute tiles? I did, but I forgot to bookmark the link and now I cant find it.

[Guest bob_barron]

Well you're from Europe Zorin so of course it wasn't going to affect you that much.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

Marny will tear you a new ass if she sees that, just warning you.

Nope. Can't be bothered.

[Guest bob_barron]

Come on Marney-

 

I need something fun to read this morning.

[Zorin Industries 0]

Well you're from Europe Zorin so of course it wasn't going to affect you that much.

Yeah, thats why I don't understand some of the emotions it raises.

 

Its funny, living in a country with so much terroism over the last 30 years, I think im just numb to stuff like this.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

Come on Marney-

 

I need something fun to read this morning.

You're sweet, Bob, but I'm going to work now. I'm so energised, you wouldn't believe it.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

How about Tomorrow!

[Guest evenflowDDT]

Wow, and all this time I didn't want to speak up because I thought I was the only one who didn't feel anything for 9/11. I think its terrible that I have such feelings (or more accurately, lack thereof) but I also won't deny they're there. Why do I feel this way? The usual reasons...

 

a) I live on the West Coast and, excepting some of the people on this board (whom I didn't want to offend by expressing my apathetic opinions earlier), don't have any ties to New York whatsoever. Of course it's sad that it happened, no innocent souls should ever have to die, but I decided to be uncharacteristically selfish and think "but it doesn't directly affect me at all, it's no skin off my back"

 

b ) Oversaturation. I was sick of 9/11/2001, by 9/14/2001. As sad as it is to say, tragedies occur all the time, and you can only see shaky footage of a plane striking a building so many times before it becomes boring. Yes, I'm aware 3000 innocent people died, blah blah blah, but innocent people die all the time, and its selfish of the U.S. media to barely mention any international incidents (admittedly, they usually don't have as high a body count, but since its still innocent people dying that shouldn't be an issue) and yet show that same fucking plane in the same fucking building (forgive my coarse language). Yea, I get it, guys. That image was like a virus, at first it was shocking, but if you keep exposing me to it I'm going to build up immunity and shrug it off. And I did.

 

c) Patriotism + Bin Laden Hatred for sale! It's a two for one deal! I worked in retail at this time (one of those rare occasions when I actually had a job), and the amount of "patriotic merchandise" and cash-in stuff that came in was just insane! I realize that people are afraid for their security, but come on, flying a flag NOW isn't going to make that much difference. It wasn't the flags that bothered me though, since that's a simple, respectful way to show support; it was all the other crap... tacky shirts, sappy songs, misappropriated charities (note: I realize this was the exception, but it still happened), and the fact that anything would be swooped up because some idiot slapped a "God Bless America" or a flag onto it. Also around this time I used to go to the Flash animation/game website Newgrounds.com a lot. It immediately became SWAMPED with anti-Bin Laden/Al Qaeda/etc. animations and games. Again, I understand people needing some outlet of expression, which in this case was anger, but come on! The man was a figurehead and trained by us. Also, I wouldn't mind one or two, but literally every other submission was "kill ben [sic] laden" or "torture osama!", and again, since most of them were terrible submissions (in both senses), oversaturation struck again. Besides, I don't care what someone did to your country (I can almost allow it if someone you know or you yourself were affected), what the hell kind of sicko are you to actually want to cause bodily harm or torture to another human being?

 

d) The War on Civil Rights (oh, I'm sorry, I mean Terror). When I talk about exploiting the incident, the worst offender was our own damn government. Immediately after, many Arabs and immigrants were suspected of connections to the incident. These people were harassed, detained without any reason or bail, disallowed the right to a lawyer, were spied upon even when released... really, it's just disgusting. And who's to say that I won't be next? I don't mean me personally, but I don't believe in many of the same issues at the government. Since civil rights can be carelessly thrown away during a state of war, if this "war" (what, "accidentally" bombing a few villages? causing and winning another country's revolution?) continues (which it will with this Iraq B.S.), who's to say those civil rights won't be removed for EVERYBODY?

 

Anyway, I'm sorry for my rant, and I'm very sorry for those who live in the New York area who had to experience this, but those are my feelings, and to not express them and more importantly, state WHY I feel that way would be an insult to those who died. Rest in Peace, but don't die in vain... let freedom (not war) ring, so we can get on with our lives!

[Guest Incandenza]

I'm reminded of how numerous grocery stores in my town were selling cheaply made, expensively priced t-shirts with American flag designs. The shirts themselves didn't even cost a dollar to make, but they were being sold for $15-$20 (depending on the store), with the promise of 10% of proceeds going to charity. Do the math, folks. Tragedy = profit.

 

All was not so sour after 9/11, obviously, but seeing shit like that made me sick--still does, when I think about it.

[Guest bob_barron]

Stuff like that disgusted me as well.

 

I saw in the store a video called like America is Great for like $20 and it really made me angry

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Wow, and all this time I didn't want to speak up because I thought I was the only one who didn't feel anything for 9/11. I think its terrible that I have such feelings (or more accurately, lack thereof) but I also won't deny they're there. Why do I feel this way? The usual reasons...

 

a) I live on the West Coast and, excepting some of the people on this board (whom I didn't want to offend by expressing my apathetic opinions earlier), don't have any ties to New York whatsoever. Of course it's sad that it happened, no innocent souls should ever have to die, but I decided to be uncharacteristically selfish and think "but it doesn't directly affect me at all, it's no skin off my back"

 

b ) Oversaturation. I was sick of 9/11/2001, by 9/14/2001. As sad as it is to say, tragedies occur all the time, and you can only see shaky footage of a plane striking a building so many times before it becomes boring. Yes, I'm aware 3000 innocent people died, blah blah blah, but innocent people die all the time, and its selfish of the U.S. media to barely mention any international incidents (admittedly, they usually don't have as high a body count, but since its still innocent people dying that shouldn't be an issue) and yet show that same fucking plane in the same fucking building (forgive my coarse language). Yea, I get it, guys. That image was like a virus, at first it was shocking, but if you keep exposing me to it I'm going to build up immunity and shrug it off. And I did.

 

c) Patriotism + Bin Laden Hatred for sale! It's a two for one deal! I worked in retail at this time (one of those rare occasions when I actually had a job), and the amount of "patriotic merchandise" and cash-in stuff that came in was just insane! I realize that people are afraid for their security, but come on, flying a flag NOW isn't going to make that much difference. It wasn't the flags that bothered me though, since that's a simple, respectful way to show support; it was all the other crap... tacky shirts, sappy songs, misappropriated charities (note: I realize this was the exception, but it still happened), and the fact that anything would be swooped up because some idiot slapped a "God Bless America" or a flag onto it. Also around this time I used to go to the Flash animation/game website Newgrounds.com a lot. It immediately became SWAMPED with anti-Bin Laden/Al Qaeda/etc. animations and games. Again, I understand people needing some outlet of expression, which in this case was anger, but come on! The man was a figurehead and trained by us. Also, I wouldn't mind one or two, but literally every other submission was "kill ben [sic] laden" or "torture osama!", and again, since most of them were terrible submissions (in both senses), oversaturation struck again. Besides, I don't care what someone did to your country (I can almost allow it if someone you know or you yourself were affected), what the hell kind of sicko are you to actually want to cause bodily harm or torture to another human being?

 

d) The War on Civil Rights (oh, I'm sorry, I mean Terror). When I talk about exploiting the incident, the worst offender was our own damn government. Immediately after, many Arabs and immigrants were suspected of connections to the incident. These people were harassed, detained without any reason or bail, disallowed the right to a lawyer, were spied upon even when released... really, it's just disgusting. And who's to say that I won't be next? I don't mean me personally, but I don't believe in many of the same issues at the government. Since civil rights can be carelessly thrown away during a state of war, if this "war" (what, "accidentally" bombing a few villages? causing and winning another country's revolution?) continues (which it will with this Iraq B.S.), who's to say those civil rights won't be removed for EVERYBODY?

 

Anyway, I'm sorry for my rant, and I'm very sorry for those who live in the New York area who had to experience this, but those are my feelings, and to not express them and more importantly, state WHY I feel that way would be an insult to those who died. Rest in Peace, but don't die in vain... let freedom (not war) ring, so we can get on with our lives!

A quick impression of Marney.

 

 

[Zorin Industries 0]

Well said Evenflow, this is kind of how I feel like.

 

Except you could be bothered to right more than me.

[Guest evenflowDDT]

Well said Evenflow, this is kind of how I feel like.

 

Except you could be bothered to right more than me.

Thanks Zorin, it's like I said, I was just relieved that there were others on the board who felt the way I did, otherwise I probably wouldn't have posted that. And Verne... I was simply expressing how I feel about the issue. Why do I "deserve" a patented Marney flame?

[Zorin Industries 0]

I don't see why you should be flamed, you were simply expressing an opinion, which is as valid as the next persons.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

See NHB thread for response.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

you were simply expressing an opinion, which is as valid as the next persons.

I don't know where this line of "thinking" comes from. All opinions are not equal. Some are informed. Some are uninformed. Some are blindly emotional and some are clear-eyed and cool-headed. Zorin is simply wrong, as he tends to be.

[Zorin Industries 0]

Maybe, I should have said TO HIM his opinions would be as valid as the next persons, as I would consider my own.

 

If he had just said "9/11 sucks, I don't care" fair enough, but he did give detailed reasons for his line of thinking

[Guest Cancer Marney]

Which would be a perfectly meaningless statement. If his opinions weren't valid to him he wouldn't hold them.

[Zorin Industries 0]

I guess I was just supporting him because we both agree on this.

 

I don't know, I feel that he has made good points.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

He made at least one good point, which means that his opinion on that point is more valid than most other people's. Just drop the inane nonjudgemental relativism.

[Guest J*ingus]

I counted two, I agreed with him on b) and c) about media and retail exploitation of the attacks.

[Zorin Industries 0]

Yeah, that stuff really got to me.

 

It says a lot about human nature when this sort of thing is turned into a sales opportunity

[Guest Cancer Marney]

However, it says much, much less than the fact that "this sort of thing" could be perpetrated in the first place.

[Zorin Industries 0]

Yeah, there is a lot of evil in the world.

 

Its just some sorts of evil are bigger than ever.

[Guest bob_barron]

I agree on C.

 

For some reason watching the news and watching CNN for three straight days and all day yesterday made me feel better. Like Wednesday- I was a nervous wreck but watching CNN made me feel more at ease.

 

But I completely agree with C

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Well said Evenflow, this is kind of how I feel like.

 

Except you could be bothered to right more than me.

Thanks Zorin, it's like I said, I was just relieved that there were others on the board who felt the way I did, otherwise I probably wouldn't have posted that. And Verne... I was simply expressing how I feel about the issue. Why do I "deserve" a patented Marney flame?

Oh you can say whatever you want. It was more of an assumption of how I thought Marney would respond. But if she just wants to ignore you than I'm sorry for speaking for her.

[Guest Vitamin X]

I do think that the sense of Patriotism after the event seems insincere, but its just like human nature to jumo on the bandwagon after something like this. I prefer cold logic to overemotion but thats just me.

WOW!!! I never knew my "Happy Sept. 11th!" wishing would spark such a conversation, and even mroe amazingly, a lot of agreement as well..

 

I wanted to check in with the board yesterday but I was too busy with a flag burning...just kidding, of course.... I think...

 

All in all, I like a Scotsman-like approach in which to just piss people off because they get offended way too easily about something they really shouldn't care that much about. Many people feel like they should take 9/11 personally, when in reality they experienced no true personal loss. New york, Washington, D.C.... People in those areas will bitch and moan, and they have all the right in the world to do so. But so far, outside of this board, when I give my explanation, all I hear is some sappy bullshit about 9/11 no doubt copied from something they read, heard on the radio, or saw on TV. Whereas us lifeless losers on the internet have teh ability to discuss and think for ourselves, and I just ignored all the 9/11 crap right around, oh probably 9/12 or 9/13.

 

But the quote you said, Zorin, is what I was referring ot by the term I coined a year ago, "Bandwagon Americans".. I made a song about it actually, as soon as I can find the lyrics (too controversial of a song to play live) I'd post em up here if anyone wants to see them. All in all, I poke fun mostly at the people who replaced Laker flags with American flags, as if pride in either one is equal.